Outbreak Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I know a couple things about AR's, having built all three of mine, so I'm a little embarrassed that I need to ask this. What is a two-stage trigger, and why do I need one for 3g? As I understand it, the first stage is essentially taking up the slack and the second stage is more positive (heavier?) but with less travel and a cleaner break. I guess my question is why slack is good in a rifle trigger when we try to eliminate as much unnecessary movement in a pistol trigger as possible? Another is does the second stage make the reset longer? Explanations on how they work inside are welcome, too. I like this stuff, just don't know much about upgraded triggers in AR's. This is one way to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I know a couple things about AR's, having built all three of mine, so I'm a little embarrassed that I need to ask this. What is a two-stage trigger, and why do I need one for 3g? As I understand it, the first stage is essentially taking up the slack and the second stage is more positive (heavier?) but with less travel and a cleaner break. I guess my question is why slack is good in a rifle trigger when we try to eliminate as much unnecessary movement in a pistol trigger as possible? Another is does the second stage make the reset longer? Explanations on how they work inside are welcome, too. I like this stuff, just don't know much about upgraded triggers in AR's. This is one way to learn. You don't need one. Its a preferance issue. Some people prefer a single stange trigger some people prefer a two stage trigger. Just don't use a military GI trigger. I prefer the Geisselle 3g which is a hybrd between a two and a single stage trigger. Many on here prefer the JP trigger which is a straight single stage trigger. Both are good. A single stage trigger generally is better for speed shooting while a two stage trigger is generally easier to hit with at longer ranges. This is my perception. Pat Edited February 28, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I guess my question is why slack is good in a rifle trigger when we try to eliminate as much unnecessary movement in a pistol trigger as possible? We dont! Slack is good, slack lets us prep the trigger! Because a two stage trigger is more like the triggers in the pistols that we all shoot, probably more than a rifle or sg, Im a big fan of two- stage triggers for 3g type rifles. AR Gold is the top of the two stage food chain, imo. You certainly arent hurting much if any starting off with a good single stage JP trigger though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outbreak Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thanks for the replies. I know most of what we do is preference only. One shooter can't get by without a certain accessory while another considers it a hinderance. I'm just getting into 3G after a few years of USPSA. I'm picky about pistol triggers, and my Limited gun has a tiny reset and almost no slack. I like it that way. I can tell the difference between a crappy AR trigger and a less crappy one, but I don't have much experience with aftermarket ones. Sounds like I need to shoot my buddy's Geissele 3G trigger again and see if I like the two-stage. The first time I was focused on his ACOG and the Gemtech on the end. Didn't remember the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I prefer the Geisselle 3g which is a hybrd between a two and a single stage trigger. I have S3G trigger, I thought it was a single stage, what makes it a hybrid? It has some travel but I think the pull weight is constant. I removed most of the travel with a grip set-screw. My last trigger was a GI trigger with a bobbed hammer, JP yellow springs, and a grip set-screw. It was almost as "good" as the S3G. The S3G has the advantage of a light pull with a stronger hammer spring. David E. Edited February 28, 2012 by Nuke8401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 It's absolutely preference, which is why there are so many successful options out there. To me, a 2-stage is much like a single-action semi-auto trigger. Some pretravel, a crisp break, some overtravel, and reset it. I never set my pistols up to eliminate all extra movement. I like some pre-travel and over-travel so that I just pull through the break of the shot as part of the overall movement. And reset never matters to me because if I'm really shooting fast, I come way forward and practically (if not litterally) off the trigger anyway. I think some of this is because I had many years w/ DA/SA guns before ever shooting single action pistol or getting in to rifle. And 2-stage triggers are not slower, so dont believe that nonsense. And they're great for accuracy, since when you hit the 2nd stage, you only have an extra pound or two w/ a crisp break to break the shot. The 3G trigger seems like a smooth/short glock trigger to me, which isn't anything anyone seeks in a pistol, so I don't get why it's the hot ticket in ARs. Basically, a 2-stage trigger w/o the second stage. But they're wildly popular, so they're worth trying out. Try several and see what you like... -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdknotts1 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I grew up learning the mil-spec trigger from my father's rifles. Never had much problem with them even through the USMC and law enforcement. I decided to buy an aftermarket trigger when I started shooting 3gun. Went with the Geissele S3G. Installed it and had all kinds of problems. Doubling, inconsistent pull weights, etc... William Geissele answered my emails at 10 and 11 o'clock at night while trying to figure it out. I sent my lower back to them and found out I installed the wrong trigger (Small/Large pin). They replaced the trigger and WOW! What a difference. The trigger is so smooth and fast. You can work that trigger and it sounds like full auto. I can't say enough about the customer service and quality of the Geissele trigger. I doubt I will EVER go with anything else. The "hybrid" I guess comes from the fact that the trigger has a long stage that feels like its rolling on ball bearings and then a nice sharp break. Very consistent pull weight and length. The trigger is absolutely awesome. I would bet if you bought a Geissele and didn't like it (can't see why that would be), someone would be quick to buy it from you off eBay or the classifieds on enos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I prefer the Geisselle 3g which is a hybrd between a two and a single stage trigger. I have S3G trigger, I thought it was a single stage, what makes it a hybrid? It has some travel but I think the pull weight is constant. I removed most of the travel with a grip set-screw. My last trigger was a GI trigger with a bobbed hammer, JP yellow springs, and a grip set-screw. It was almost as "good" as the S3G. The S3G has the advantage of a light pull with a stronger hammer spring. David E. Its not a true single stage with the sear engagement on the bottom of the hammer its up on the top like a two stage trigger. You get a slightly longer pull than a true single stage like the JP. I do like it however. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 ....I gotta say it..... Geissele S3G trigger: Bringing the refinement of the AK-47 trigger to the AR-15. ....now before anyone starts screaming, they better have alot of time in both of these guns and know what they are talking about. bring it.... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Nice one Eric! The 2 stage trigger, for the AR15 was originally developed by Charlie Milazzo and it was called the Kreiger/Milazzo trigger. It was developed to help make the AR competative in national match shooting against the M1A's. National match triggers had to be set at no less than 4.5#, he developed the trigger to have 3# take up and 1.5# release.....the trigger felt like a crisp 1.5# trigger for that sport. Pretty much all the standard 2 stage triggers out there are based off of Charlies' design. The general concensus was (at one time) that is was felt to have too slow of a reset for the 3 gun game. Things change I guess. JP came out with a refined single stage trigger for 3 gun and it sold like hot cakes....still does; it has a very fast rest. It is all personal preference. I prefer a single stage trigger, some one else will like the 2 stage. Funny thing is....just about all the competition triggers out there today (save the gold, jewel and a couple others) are pretty much direct copies of the afore mention triggers that started this craze. And then there are people like Eric that love the AK trigger.....and he'll still out shoot most of you. Tim Edited March 10, 2012 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) ....I gotta say it..... Geissele S3G trigger: Bringing the refinement of the AK-47 trigger to the AR-15. ....now before anyone starts screaming, they better have alot of time in both of these guns and know what they are talking about. bring it.... ericm I have owned and shot my share of AK's (Have owned 4 different Mak 90's, 1 Hungarian SA-85, 1 Egyptian Maddi) and still own three different AK pattern weapons. (1 Arsenal Saiga SL21, 1 R&R converted Saiga 12 and one Tromex Saiga 12). As for AR15 pattern weapons I lost count of how many I have owned and I still have 4. In my experience the triggers are nothing at all like the Geissele 3g. Well I take that back when you pull an AK's trigger to the rear it fires and the same with the Geisselle 3g. It's been brought! lol. (what is IT again?) As for trigger reset that is what makes the Geisselle 3g so great is its very fast snappy positive reset. Pat Edited March 11, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Pat, you are very close to "IT" (the understanding)......which is what I asked all to "bring" to this thread.... When you can explain how to tune an AK trigger (like your MAK-90) into a "crisp" 2-stage trigger (with nothing but hand tools - no parts changes), you will also see how the S3G trigger was "detuned" from the Geissele 2-stage triggers, and does, in fact, copy an AK type trigger in it's "normal" state (and remember the AK trigger setup was pretty much copied from the M1 Garand). Begin your advanced studies, Grasshopper-armorer ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 ....and Tim: I only "love" the AK trigger when it HAS been set up as a nice 2-stage.... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 ....and Tim: I only "love" the AK trigger when it HAS been set up as a nice 2-stage.... ericm You love the AK trigger, like you love Cher....now the secrets out hombre!! "Do you believe......" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 ....I guess the comparison with an unmodified AK trigger (or S3G) is a close one..... ....A long, "fairly smooth" travel (career) followed by an indeterminate release (retirement), "I believe"...... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now