cheryl Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I see a couple posts about shotgun loaded rounds, and some info has been posted to support given statements. I looked thru the USPSA MG rules, and for all the Divisions it gives the ready condition loaded rounds. But there is no reference anywhere about after the start signal. Most of the match rules I've read state if you can load as many as you want after the start, or that 9 max is all you can ever have in the gun during the match. I don't see a definitive statement in the USPSA rules. To my knowledge, USPSA has always been 9 max (11 open). anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) You made me actually read it: 8.1.4 Unless complying with a Division requirement (see Appendices), Rule8.1.1 or a Load One, Shoot One stage, a competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded or reloaded in a shotgun. Written stage briefings may only stipulate when the firearm is to be loaded or when mandatory reloads are required, when permitted under Rule 1.1.5.2 Appendix D29. Ammunition capacity restrictions Maximum of 9 rounds loaded, Max. of 8 in the case of Rule 8.1.1.2 8.1.1.2 Loaded (Option 2): magazine filled and fitted (if applicable),chamber(s) empty and the action closed. So I have been told that USPSA was 8+1(9 max) but after reading this I see no limit on "capacity" and 8.1.1 says "a competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded or reloaded in a shotgun." So I hope to hear the answer too. David E. Edited February 8, 2012 by Nuke8401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Oops, wrong thread... Edited February 8, 2012 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ChuckS, that discussion is irrelevant. The question was related to USPSA rules. While I understand some changes are in the works, however, the current rules would be in the 2009 Shotgun Rules In Appendix D1-D3, number 9 is Ammunition Capacity Restrictions. 11/10 for open and 9/8 for all other divisions. The -1 is for rule 8.1.1.2 which is an empty chamber start. David E. correctly cited this rule. The capacity restriction means your shotgun can not hold more than the specified number of rounds. The 8.1.4 rule prohibits a WSB from requiring a competitor to load a certain number of rounds, basically a freestyle underscoring as it relates to loading the shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ChuckS, that discussion is irrelevant. The question was related to USPSA rules. While I understand some changes are in the works, however, the current rules would be in the 2009 Shotgun Rules In Appendix D1-D3, number 9 is Ammunition Capacity Restrictions. 11/10 for open and 9/8 for all other divisions. The -1 is for rule 8.1.1.2 which is an empty chamber start. David E. correctly cited this rule. The capacity restriction means your shotgun can not hold more than the specified number of rounds. The 8.1.4 rule prohibits a WSB from requiring a competitor to load a certain number of rounds, basically a freestyle underscoring as it relates to loading the shotgun. For the shotgun..It can hold more.. you just can't put more in.. right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 9. Ammunition capacity restrictions Mark, thanks, I skipped right over the answer "capacity restrictions" David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 For the shotgun..It can hold more.. you just can't put more in.. right? Incorrect. It is a capacity restrition, not a "Load no more than" restriction. If the rule, no matter which set, never allows more than 8 in the tube, I configure my shotgun to not hold more than 8. At some matches, if you can put in more after the beep, I run a 9 round tube. That one round "on the way in" at "Standby" can save a few seconds on a stage or two. I did it 3 times total last year. Most times, it is a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 9. Ammunition capacity restrictions Mark, thanks, I skipped right over the answer "capacity restrictions" David E. Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ChuckS, that discussion is irrelevant. The question was related to USPSA rules. yup, sorry. I guess these shotgun capacity threads are beginning to blur... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) For the shotgun..It can hold more.. you just can't put more in.. right? Incorrect. It is a capacity restrition, not a "Load no more than" restriction. If the rule, no matter which set, never allows more than 8 in the tube, I configure my shotgun to not hold more than 8. At some matches, if you can put in more after the beep, I run a 9 round tube. That one round "on the way in" at "Standby" can save a few seconds on a stage or two. I did it 3 times total last year. Most times, it is a wash. USPSA.. max is 8+1.. there's no rule baout not allowing it to hold more. It's the same wording for Proiduciton and Limited 10 magazines Mark.. was there an offical ruling on that somehwere? The rule does not say max capaicty.. just 'loaded' Shotgun: Maximum of 9 rounds loaded Production: Yes, maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine after the start signal If it is actually capacity.. you have to ban > 10 round mags for Open? Edited February 8, 2012 by D.Hayden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) USPSA.. max is 8+1.. there's no rule baout not allowing it to hold more. It's the same wording for Proiduciton and Limited 10 magazines Mark.. was there an offical ruling on that somehwere? The rule does not say max capaicty.. jurt 'loaded' Shotgun: Maximum of 9 rounds loaded Production: Yes, maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine after the start signal It says in Appendix D2/3 9. Ammunition capacity restrictions / Maximum of 9 rounds loaded, Max. of 8 in the case of Rule 8.1.1.2. I do see the confusion and maybe it will get cleared up in the next rule set. Edited February 8, 2012 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Right.. same as the rules for pistol.. I take the approach.. doesn't say you can't.. I see this exactly like using a standard 17 round magazine in production.. just don't load to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) APPENDIX D4 — Production Division (9) Maximum ammunition capacity - maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine after the start signal Limited/Tactical Division Shotgun (9) Ammunition capacity restrictions - Maximum of 9 rounds loaded, Max. of 8 in the case of Rule 8.1.1.2 8.1.1.2 Loaded (Option 2): magazine filled and fitted (if applicable), chamber(s) empty and the action closed. Edited February 8, 2012 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Doc.. which way are you saying for the shotgun? Can hold more, or Can't? Passing the division max is easy.. just if you have the ability or not.. is the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Doc.. which way are you saying for the shotgun? Can hold more, or Can't? Passing the division max is easy.. just if you have the ability or not.. is the question I'm saying what the rule says, your shotgun is Restritcted to only holding 9. So if your shotgun *CAN* hold 10, you are in open. So your gonna need a plug. This bit Taran in the ass one year when FB3G were running USPSA rules and he was bumped to open. Edited February 8, 2012 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I see what you and Mark are saying.. I don't read it that way.. probably not the first time So using > 10 round mags for an open shotgun.. gets you what? Shoot for no score? DQ? ETA: I'd treat this just like the pistols.. capacity can be greater, but you beter not exceed it. I shoot an 8 shot in Revolver, I use 17 round mags for Production.. Edited February 9, 2012 by D.Hayden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This bit Taran in the ass one year when FB3G were running USPSA rules and he was bumped to open. I am pretty sure that FB was running FB rules. Specifically: "6.6.7 Tactical Shotguns may only hold 8 rounds maximum in the tube. Ghost loading is specifically not allowed." FB3G_2010_rules.pdf Later, Chuck PS: It wasn't that big of a bite: Taran won the match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This bit Taran in the ass one year when FB3G were running USPSA rules and he was bumped to open. I am pretty sure that FB was running FB rules. Specifically: "6.6.7 Tactical Shotguns may only hold 8 rounds maximum in the tube. Ghost loading is specifically not allowed." FB3G_2010_rules.pdf Later, Chuck PS: It wasn't that big of a bite: Taran won the match! Or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I sent an email to NROI... after Docs post.. I see the confusion too.. Mark.. I missed that wording... I'll post the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's 9 loaded. If you want to run a 15 round tube go for it. Just don't slip that 10 th round in the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Got this from John: >> The wording may be different but the meaning is the same as Production and or Single Stack, that is the maximum you can load into the firearm << Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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