Glock 27 .40 Kaboom this weekend

[Rocky Patel]

Well..... Today while at the range my Glock 27 went kaboom! I know what some of you will say as soon as I write this next sentence, but here goes.. This was my first batch of reloads... Yes, it could have been a double charge.. But unlikely..The reason I say this, is that I knew about the dangers of reloading double charges and was actively watching while making the bullets for such an event. After the Kaboom, I even went home and purposely double charged a case to see what it would look like and while not over flowing with powder damn near the top. With only a single charge I had to actually look into the case and see the powder. And that what I saw while loading it. Never did I see powder all the way to , almost the top. Maybe 2-3mm of left over space. Not to say it couldn't happen but I'm sure I would have saw that. Yes, I do admit, obviously the potential still exists.

Other fun facts:

I was loading

-Precision Delta 180 round nose bullets

- This particular batch was 4.1 to 4.2 grain Titegroup powder. I say 4.1 to 4.2 because the Lee Turret press with the disk loader throws the charge off a bit usually a little less than expected. I guess from what I understand now is that TG is a flakey powder and drops inconsistently sometimes. Well..actually, most of the time in my case.. Upon further reading I found people saying to tap the powder mechanism while charging the case. AND pull the lever slower to let the powder empty into the case. This does help get the powder to be more consistent. It makes it fill the disk cavity fully before moving it to the hole in the die.. I tested this about 50 times or so and it's much more accurate now. (Learning after the fact.... %^%E^%$%$^^&^%@@!!!)

- OAL of 1.125

- Stock barrel.

So the order of things were:

1. I made 10 of these 4.1 to 4.1 grain bullets. while doing these I was playing around with the crimp setting. The book said put a loaded round in the crimper die. Then screw down the screw thing on top till it touches the bullet. Then lower the handle and turn 1/4 turn for a light crimp and a full turn for a heavy crimp. It never does tell you how much of a crimp it is. I've read all over the place where people state the dimensions of their crimp. How do I figure that out?? Any how, the point was I think one of those bullets may have had a really hard crimp. Would love to know how to tell what the crimp was. I'm not a fan of Oh. 1/4 turn is a light crimp and a full turn is a heavy crimp..

2. Then decided to increase the disk cavity the next one up. .37 to .40 cavity on the disk. This made the powder drop 4.4-4.5gn

3. I made 2 boxes (100rnds) straight. after i was done with each i weighed each and every bullet to make sure they were about the same weight. I double charged a round and with the projectile it came to 261.9grains. so i made sure non of my rounds came near that. 257.6, 258.1, 256.3, .....around there. and I wrote on a piece of paper the receipe and stuck them in the box. oh and each round I measured the OAL to 1.125.

I went to the range on Saturday and took both boxes of 4.4-4.5 grain bullets and thought hmmm. why not take the box of 4.1s . Lets see how light they are compared to the 4.4-.5s. So I threw those into the goodie box as well.

Got to the range and shot one box of the 4.4-4.5 rounds. A bit snappier than factory rounds. definitely can tell there was a difference from the usual box I buy at the range. Atlanta Arms reloads.

Things were going good. Then I decided hmm.... I wonder how those 4.1s shoot. I loaded up 5 rounds. Bang....Bang...KABOOM!!! Definately was not expecting that. Mag flew out the bottom, Could tell the frame exploded in my hand The barrel is down range about 5 feet. plastic trigger is in 10 pieces, Slide was jammed up with the frame. Most of the internals were broken. Pins in 2 pieces, there was not much salvageable. The slide had a bow in it outward near the extraction point.

We retrived the barrel and investigated the site. The block on the barrel split in two down the middle. Now have a top half and a bottom half. Blew up and forward ripping completely off the barrel at the point where it started to go round. shot straight up hit the track above me and shot forward down range about 10-15 yards. the rest of the barrel was about 5 feet away.

Hands ok, no scars just tingly..

Dave the range owner said it looks like a double charge. But like I said after putting in a double charge to see what it looks like, there's a lot of powder in there. How could I miss that? Remember when I said I weighed each and every bullet. I said that when making those 2 boxes.. Never did weigh the first 15 or so before those boxes. Bringing them was an after thought. I wonder could it be one of those that I crimped to hard while messing with the crimp die? What about if one of those was smaller than the minimum OAL of 1.125. I guess it said MINIMUM for a reason. What if the crimp was not enough and there was set back? ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! And to top it all off I bought 1000 pieces of used brass from precision delta. roll sized, cleaned bla bla bla. Some people say they never use used brass. Oh and the brass was nickel plated. Don't know if that makes a difference.. Would love to figure out what happened so I don't do it again..

Ok the point is I was lucky. A. Luck to have hands and a face still........And B. better yet my new STI Edge Custom 5inch came in Monday!! So not without a gun for too long.. So back in the saddle. For tuesdays club match....

But what about bullets???? I didn' buy all this stuff to keep buying retail bullets. So I search out every post I could find on peoples sti edge .40 load data and came up with the following.

Using my precision delta 180 FMJ + 4.2-4.3grains of TG and an OAL of 1.190. Seemed reasonable. Less powder, longer bullet.. Watching each bullet like a hawk. Took me and hour and a half to make 50. so 3 hours to make 100. Measuring the charge every 2-3 maybe 4 or so. Checking the OAL just as often. Does this sound like a reasonable load for this gun? Still a bit gun shy at the making bullets game.. I have a box of factory loads too. Figured I would start with those. When I get to the range have some one who shoots an STI and makes their bullets check over my work. Discuss what I did. Or do I play it safe and buy another box or two factory loads and thow the whole lot way.. HELP!!!!!! I will post pics of the barrel tomorrow. I was so confident going to the range on Saturday. Now not so much... Oh and to top it all of a friend at the club compared my lee press to cheap gasoline vs a dillon which is racing fuel. and asked me what kind of gas would I put in a race car? Cheap gas or racing fuel? Could it be the lee turret press is that cheap that I can't make good bullets? Is the dillon that much more precise? .. Too many questions.. @#$#$%#$%#$#@#%@#@$%#$%#%!!!!!!!!!!!!! If i've confused you with all this babble, now you know what is floating around in my head.. Definately don't want to blow up my $2700 STI..

Edited January 31, 2012 by Rocky Patel

[Rocky Patel]

Should I change powders? What do you recommend? Would love a ball powder of some sort.. Just don't know of any yet..

[alpha-charlie]

Just fyi, to measure your crimp use your calipers. Measure the area of the brass that has the bullet in it.

[Rocky Patel]

Sound simple enough.. Why didn't I think if that? I thought there had to be some complicated way with the die or something.. Thanks. Any Idea what the crimp should be? Thanks for replying..

[alpha-charlie]

I don't load for .40 cal but I think the below link should help. There are tons of threads and posts about loading .40 cal. The search function is priceless.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40102&st=0&p=476916&hl=40%20cal%20load%20data&fromsearch=1entry476916

Edited January 31, 2012 by alpha-charlie

[Cy Soto]

What if the crimp was not enough and there was set back?

No amount of bullet setback is going to produce that type of catastrophic pistol failure. What you have described sounds like a double-charge.

Titegroup is a great powder to use in .40 S&W but, personally, I would never recommend a newbie reloader to use this as their first powder. As you have learned (the hard way) TG is not tolerant of any sort of mistake.

[ParaGunner]

Get a Dillon press.

[leas327]

Do you have any of the rounds that were loaded In The mag when the gun let go? If so check the OAL to see if there was any setback.

Also pull the bullets and weigh the charges.

[Ronnie j]

1.180-1.190 won't fit in a glock mag. Your kb could have been a squib , is there a buldge in the barrel ? I assume PD moly coat bullets right? Those are really prone to setback. My humble suggestion is switch to jacketed and a slower powder get a better feel for what your doing. This comes from somebody that's made ALOT of reloading mistakes.

[Rocky Patel]

i managed to unjam the remaining 2 rounds from the mag that day any when I got home I measured their length and they were 1.125. I even put them on a scale and weighed them. I did not pull the bullets however. Wish I would have. now they are in the trash with about 30 or so others I threw out for good measure.

No amount of bullet setback is going to produce that type of catastrophic pistol failure. What you have described sounds like a double-charge.

You know, that's almost verbatim from what the owner of the range told me.. that's 2 for catastrophic failure/double charge..

As you have learned (the hard way) TG is not tolerant of any sort of mistake.

INDEED!

[Rocky Patel]

1.180-1.190 won't fit in a glock mag. Your kb could have been a squib , is there a buldge in the barrel ? I assume PD moly coat bullets right? Those are really prone to setback. My humble suggestion is switch to jacketed and a slower powder get a better feel for what your doing. This comes from somebody that's made ALOT of reloading mistakes.

The 1.190s are for my STI edge. The Glock bullets were 1.125. The Bullet was precision delta. Full metal jackets. No bulge but a ripped in half Block.

Any suggestions on a slower powder?

[Rocky Patel]

Get a Dillon press.

Seems like a common theme song.. Get a Dillon...... La.. la .la .la.....Get a Dillon...... Or gun go Bye bye.......

I guess so.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I wonder how those 4.1s shoot. I loaded up 5 rounds. 1. Bang....2. Bang...3. KABOOM!!!

Rocky, I suppose with all that commotion you didn't check to see

if the first two shots you fired hit the target?

If there was only one hole in the target, the 2nd bullet might

have been lodged in your barrel (squib)???

Or, did the 2nd shot sound a little different (lighter, pop)?

Sounds like you were religious about a double charge, but I remember

working up a new load, and having 3 squibs in my first batch to

the range:(( Got lucky and noticed them, and didn't have a kaboom:)

Goodluck ,

Jack

[Rocky Patel]

I don't load for .40 cal but I think the below link should help. There are tons of threads and posts about loading .40 cal. The search function is priceless.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40102&st=0&p=476916&hl=40%20cal%20load%20data&fromsearch=1entry476916

is Solo a slower powder? Thanks for the link...

[Rocky Patel]

I wonder how those 4.1s shoot. I loaded up 5 rounds. 1. Bang....2. Bang...3. KABOOM!!!

Rocky, I suppose with all that commotion you didn't check to see

if the first two shots you fired hit the target?

If there was only one hole in the target, the 2nd bullet might

have been lodged in your barrel (squib)???

Or, did the 2nd shot sound a little different (lighter, pop)?

i have a video i will post when i get to the office. shitty.. the cam angle was to low but you do see my hands on the gun and the very bottom of the slide. doesn't look\sound like a squib..

[Rocky Patel]

You are right though... After all that.... What Target??? I didn't look. Just ripped it down tossed it in the trash, packed up, Talked to everyone who was interested then head hung low and left. Even left my drivers license there.... Not a good day. It felt very similar to wrecking my car for the first time...

[Heckler]

Get a Dillon press.

Seems like a common theme song.. Get a Dillon...... La.. la .la .la.....Get a Dillon...... Or gun go Bye bye.......

I guess so.

Using a Dillon *might* help, I don't have anything else to compare to, but mistakes can still happen. While loading if I get distracted for even a moment, I will clear all four stations on my 550 and start over. I take no chances. Since I have taken this route I have not have not had a single squib. I would rather take the extra time than risk myself or someone else getting hurt.

[Rocky Patel]

Get a Dillon press.

Seems like a common theme song.. Get a Dillon...... La.. la .la .la.....Get a Dillon...... Or gun go Bye bye.......

I guess so.

Using a Dillon *might* help, I don't have anything else to compare to, but mistakes can still happen. While loading if I get distracted for even a moment, I will clear all four stations on my 550 and start over. I take no chances. Since I have taken this route I have not have not had a single squib. I would rather take the extra time than risk myself or someone else getting hurt.

That indeed was another lesson learned. The one that goes to the top of my list. Have to admit, I had the TV going at the same time. And was sorta doing both.. Only during that 1st session. Once kaboom happened. The gloves went on, the glasses went on ( I read about someone's kaboom while reloading. his primers went off apparently because of static. He got hurt some) , the TV went off and I added more light.. Definitely realized you must pay attention to each and every bullet.

You know, after all the replies and people I talked to, it could have been a double charge sneaked in there. If not double maybe just more than one. Like a pull of the handle and while not paying attention raising the handle like half way, not realizing I had done so and pushed it back down to get rid of the powder in the cavity. But during that half way up it could have gotten more powder and dumped it on the way down. Now every charge I raise the handle all the way up on purpose to rotate to the next die. Never stop with it in the charge die to do anything else. Stop after raising it all the way to the top and making the turret rotate.

Speaking of Squib, Can you get a squib if you had less than a full charge? For example if I intended 4.2gr of TG and went too fast on the handle not letting enough powder in the cavity and equally and only got like 3.7- 4.0 ? Or does a Squib happen when there is no powder and only primer?

[Rugster]

Being as potent as it is, it wouldn't take much TG to push a bullet out of the barrel.

Generally TG meters very well. I'm surprised you're seeing otherwise. I would suggest picking up some Power Pistol while you're still learning. It's a good load for .40, very forgiving, and fun to shoot (it's a flashy powder). And a double charge would be overflowing out of the case making a mess you'd certainly notice.

*You don't need a Dillon press to make quality ammo. I have dillon and Lee presses, both work fine.

[Rocky Patel]

Here is the pic of the barrel..

[Rocky Patel]

Being as potent as it is, it wouldn't take much TG to push a bullet out of the barrel.

Generally TG meters very well. I'm surprised you're seeing otherwise. I would suggest picking up some Power Pistol while you're still learning. It's a good load for .40, very forgiving, and fun to shoot (it's a flashy powder). And a double charge would be overflowing out of the case making a mess you'd certainly notice.

*You don't need a Dillon press to make quality ammo. I have dillon and Lee presses, both work fine.

That is some really good information. Thanks a bunch. I've been wondering about what powder would overflow like that. Until now I did not know.

[works for ammo]

sorry to hear about your bad day...it don't sound like it scared you away from reloading.

Keep at it and be safe. thanks for sharing this.

[Solvability]

Could'a been a defective barrel - send it back to Glock and let them decide.

I tried a Lee disk loader for a while - I had erratic throws with it - went to a Dillon and life is much easier.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Solvability

[Rocky Patel]

Could'a been a defective barrel - send it back to Glock and let them decide.

I tried a Lee disk loader for a while - I had erratic throws with it - went to a Dillon and life is much easier.

I read many places where a new powder drop may have some kind of static i it making powder stick to the sides. Or at least not flow as freely. People say to run graphite through the system to coat the insides so when gun powder flows through it, it will flow more freely. Is that really true. Should I go buy some graphite and run it through or just continue with what I'm doing and the gun powder will coat the side eventually?

[Rocky Patel]

Being as potent as it is, it wouldn't take much TG to push a bullet out of the barrel.

Generally TG meters very well. I'm surprised you're seeing otherwise. I would suggest picking up some Power Pistol while you're still learning. It's a good load for .40, very forgiving, and fun to shoot (it's a flashy powder). And a double charge would be overflowing out of the case making a mess you'd certainly notice.

*You don't need a Dillon press to make quality ammo. I have dillon and Lee presses, both work fine.

Do you have to tap the lee to get the cavity filled properly on the auto disk? Did you run graphite through it to coat the side.. Just questions.