Trigger job problem

[Bosshoss]

Purchased a 627 PC off a member here a while back, round count of 1500 or so and a trigger job from a S&W trained smith. I have been doing trigger jobs for several years and I know the working of a S&W fairly well but I don't claim to be an expert. The gun is a little different in that it has a frame mounted firing pin, and forged trigger and hammer instead of MIM.

When I started trigger job I started with trigger and the part of trigger that contacts sear on the hammer has the chrome coating flaking off of it. Don't know if it was a defective chrome job or the last person messed it up. I cleaned it up the best I could but not sure if metal under coating is hardend or not. SO I don't know if it will hold up or not. The chrome on the trigger also didn't clean up as well as the other flash chrome guns I have done.

I already ordered a extra hammer as I'm going to bob this one, the one I ordered was a MIM as that was the only one I could find that worked with the in frame firing pin. Will a MIM hammer and sear work with a forged trigger? I assume it will but I have never mixed MIM and forged before. I Guess I will look into getting another forged trigger, in case this one doesn't hold up.

The reason I ordered another hammer was for USPSA production class. Going to bob hammer for ICORE and STEEL, but can't run a bobbed hammer in production class, so I was going to switch back and forth. I'm not even sure about shooting production class with 627 yet but that is the plan.

The forged hammer in a FMFP gun is kinda unusual(AT least I haven't seen many) should I keep that hammer stock and bob the MIM part when I get it, or just go ahead and bob the forged part.

Thanks for any help and sorry for all the questions.

[sbcman]

Yes! Even though we won't be in the same class it will be good to see other revolvers at Jasper and Owensboro.

It would be ideal if you could just go all forged. Unfortunately S&W no longer makes forged parts (for sale) Numrich might have something though. The MIM stuff just doesn't polish up as well as the forged stuff, and I don't think the trigger is hardened, but could be wrong.

A lot of guys have had similar problems with the 625JM and its chrome. So, someone probably didn't mess it up- it's probably just typical wear on the chrome parts they've been producing.

I would think the MIM and forged parts could work together, but I don't think it will smooth out like all forged or all chrome.

Looking forward to seeing it run!

[Bosshoss]

Yes! Even though we won't be in the same class it will be good to see other revolvers at Jasper and Owensboro.

It would be ideal if you could just go all forged. Unfortunately S&W no longer makes forged parts (for sale) Numrich might have something though. The MIM stuff just doesn't polish up as well as the forged stuff, and I don't think the trigger is hardened, but could be wrong.

A lot of guys have had similar problems with the 625JM and its chrome. So, someone probably didn't mess it up- it's probably just typical wear on the chrome parts they've been producing.

I would think the MIM and forged parts could work together, but I don't think it will smooth out like all forged or all chrome.

Looking forward to seeing it run!

Hi TJ

Congrats on the 625 nice gun you got. I plan on shooting 625 in USPSA revolver and 627 in ICORE, I might shoot it in Prod. or maybe even open with a dot. I was shooting at South Central and Silver Creek along with Owensboro and Jasper before the winter break. Might check out WVPPS next spring.

I have had good results with MIM trigger jobs, they are hard all the way thru and a lot easier to take apart(no pins to drive out). I am a retired die maker so stoning and polishing metal is something I have done for over 30 years. They have polished up just fine for me so far, I don't have any MIM guns(mine or other I have done) with a high round count so I can't say how they will hold up. I would guess the forged parts are stronger but I don't think the MIM are weak by any means.

I'm going to start looking for a extra trigger.

Thanks for input TJ

Paul

[sbcman]

Good to hear you'll be running a 625 in USPSA! Maybe with you, me and the two other wheelgunners in Owensboro we could make half a squad

I agree- there's OK MIM and then there's great MIM, and S&W makes great MIM. If I come across a trigger I'll shoot a PM your way. Looking forward to shooting with you this year.

[Toolguy]

The MIM hammers and triggers are interchangeable with machined ones and can be used in any combination. All of them are hard and will hold up for years of use.

You can get just as good a trigger job from any of them if done correctly.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Toolguy

[Carmoney]

The MIM stuff just doesn't polish up as well as the forged stuff, and I don't think the trigger is hardened, but could be wrong.

sbcman, I'm afraid I'm going to come across as being really critical of your posts, but right now you're 0 for 3!

The MIM stuff slicks up wonderfully. Check out a good competition action job on a gun with MIM guts and you'll see exactly what I mean. I have lots of revolvers, and the guns I shoot in USPSA Revolver Division are both 625-6s.

Nothing like a good MIM job!

[sbcman]

The MIM stuff just doesn't polish up as well as the forged stuff, and I don't think the trigger is hardened, but could be wrong.

sbcman, I'm afraid I'm going to come across as being really critical of your posts, but right now you're 0 for 3!

The MIM stuff slicks up wonderfully. Check out a good competition action job on a gun with MIM guts and you'll see exactly what I mean. I have lots of revolvers, and the guns I shoot in USPSA Revolver Division are both 625-6s.

Nothing like a good MIM job!

Haha- oh don't be afraid, I usually get more criticism than that by 9:00am

I too have a 625 with a MIM parts that came out of the Sand Burr guys shop. It is simply superb, but I have no idea how they got it that way. I tried slicking up a 686-6 once and a 66 no dash. The 66 took well, really well for me but the 686 did not. I guess I should have said "I can't get the MIM stuff slicked up as well." Bosshoss is more atuned to that kind of work, so it will probably be just fine for him as well.

And just to round-up the rest of my stikes-

Why is lithium grease a bad choice? Looking to learn here and willing to change, just interested in why.

Titanium pins- one broke on before mentioned 625 and the answer was "dry firing without snap caps." Don't know what else to say about it.

[Tom E]

Why is lithium grease a bad choice?

Titanium pins- one broke on before mentioned 625 and the answer was "dry firing without snap caps."

Grease: ANY grease just creates too much drag in an action that really needs free moving parts.

Titanium firing pins: The S&W titanium pins seem to hold up very well and have a good "track record" but anything can, and eventually will, break.

[jjanglin]

MIM parts are just fine,folks who hae trouble just go to far into the part withtheir stones etc.

I do trigger jobs on all kinds of firearms and dont have any trouble with the MIM parts.

Jim

Sailors

[Revopop]

OT, but, I'm in Evansville and now that I've got a new job with weekends off, you can count on one more revolver shooter at the local matches. I've been to Owensboro and WVPPS before, but didn't know there was a match in Jasper. When and where?

[Shadowrider]

I've done just a few guns so I'm still a newbie. But I've done both MIM guns and forged. From those that I've seen the MIM parts just don't need a lot done to them. 2 or 3 light passes with the stone is about it and some don't really need that. Mostly they just need polished from what I've seen. I've done some research on the tolerance capability of MIM parts and in the envelope size of the hammer and trigger, very, very close tolerances can be held in the process. I'm talking tolerances that would very easily allow drop in replacement even on the SA sear engagement. Now that's not to say you can just drop a new trigger or hammer in because I have no idea if S&W holds their vendors to this tight of spec, but it's possible. It's pretty interesting to a 20+ year "retired" (read..changed careers) machinist, CNC programmer, mfg. engineer from aerospace to see a process capability like this. The MIM guns that I've done have been very easy to smooth up.

It sounds to me like the chrome flaking off is pretty common. My 1st 625JM had it happen on the trigger face where it impacted the FP. Hard to say if someone jacked it up or not, but it's possible. I still tend to prefer the forged parts, but done properly, MIM should give you no worries, I'm just old school I guess.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Shadowrider

[sbcman]

OT, but, I'm in Evansville and now that I've got a new job with weekends off, you can count on one more revolver shooter at the local matches. I've been to Owensboro and WVPPS before, but didn't know there was a match in Jasper. When and where?

A USPSA type (not actual club) is held at the Jasper Rifle Range the 2nd Saturdays from March to October. It's a little different in that it's all shot on one bay and after each course of fire we tear down that stage and put up a new one. I think it was 4 courses of fire overall.

I've done just a few guns so I'm still a newbie. But I've done both MIM guns and forged. From those that I've seen the MIM parts just don't need a lot done to them. 2 or 3 light passes with the stone is about it and some don't really need that. Mostly they just need polished from what I've seen. I've done some research on the tolerance capability of MIM parts and in the envelope size of the hammer and trigger, very, very close tolerances can be held in the process. I'm talking tolerances that would very easily allow drop in replacement even on the SA sear engagement. Now that's not to say you can just drop a new trigger or hammer in because I have no idea if S&W holds their vendors to this tight of spec, but it's possible. It's pretty interesting to a 20+ year "retired" (read..changed careers) machinist, CNC programmer, mfg. engineer from aerospace to see a process capability like this. The MIM guns that I've done have been very easy to smooth up. It sounds to me like the chrome flaking off is pretty common. My 1st 625JM had it happen on the trigger face where it impacted the FP. Hard to say if someone jacked it up or not, but it's possible. I still tend to prefer the forged parts, but done properly, MIM should give you no worries, I'm just old school I guess.

Thanks for this post. I might have gotten too aggressive with my MIM stuff. As noted, I've seen amazing MIM jobs but just couldn't do it myself. Always learning.

[R112mercer]

My old competition 625 has a forged trigger & MIM hammer, I never had any problems with it. And here's what Randy Lee uses for lube on his actions (last I checked):

Lubriplate

I know "IT'S GREASE!!! YOU CAN'T USE GREASE ON WHEELGUNS!!!" but it's really thin stuff that seems to handle temperature well. Best part is you can by it at the auto store for cheap. YMMV.