Nuke8401 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 What's the difference between pro and pro?Pros get paid. Pros don't pay to shoot. Semantics. But the whole thing is confusing, changing all the time, not well thought out, and certainly with the alleged prize money being given out to winners, it would behoove the organizers to be presenting the situation in a more cogent manner. Not happening. The "rules" of the 3Gun tour are copied from IMGA rules and USPSA rules. Those rules books should be cited, as in a footnote. Looks more like WWF than a legitimate competition. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. But having an FN shooter win the FN sponsored series in Las Vegas made me tune it out. I will try to get to matches I shoot, have fun, and ignore everything else. 3GN may be important in the future, but they are not now. Not much different between a "PRO and PRO?" Looks like they thought it out pretty well. -You can only compete in one series; so a PRO level gamer cannot shoot PRO, SEMI-PRO, Divisional, amateur and collect prize money from each. - Rules are pretty clear; PROs can shoot the pro matches listed in PRO for scores to count. Semi-pro shoot matches listed in their series and must shoot in PRO at the AR15/ROCK match for it to count. AM can shoot the matches listed in their series and must shoot AM at the AR15/ROCK match for it to count. Per the current rules list on the 3GN site (not emails); to get in the qualifier for PRO you must finish in the top 25 of the SEMI-PRO series. 8. 3GN Pro Series Qualification8.1: Following the 2012 3GN season, the top 25 3GN Semi-Pro Series competitors will earn an invitation into the 2013-2014 3GN Pro Series Qualification match (Venue TBD). These slots will go to the top 25 only. Any unused slot will be forfeited and go unused. 8.2: The top 25 Semi-Pro Series competitors will be based on the final 3GN Semi-Pro standings at the end of the 2012 3GN season. David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Maybe I should shoot semi pro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Bummer. I can't shoot much at all this year because of work. Only one of the 3GN matches. Guess I'm out for 2013 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz41 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Any word on how much the fee is going to be to shoot semi pro or amateur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) What's the difference between pro and pro?Pros get paid. Pros don't pay to shoot. Semantics. But the whole thing is confusing, changing all the time, not well thought out, and certainly with the alleged prize money being given out to winners, it would behoove the organizers to be presenting the situation in a more cogent manner. Not happening. The "rules" of the 3Gun tour are copied from IMGA rules and USPSA rules. Those rules books should be cited, as in a footnote. Looks more like WWF than a legitimate competition. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. But having an FN shooter win the FN sponsored series in Las Vegas made me tune it out. I will try to get to matches I shoot, have fun, and ignore everything else. 3GN may be important in the future, but they are not now. Not much different between a "PRO and PRO?" Looks like they thought it out pretty well. -You can only compete in one series; so a PRO level gamer cannot shoot PRO, SEMI-PRO, Divisional, amateur and collect prize money from each. - Rules are pretty clear; PROs can shoot the pro matches listed in PRO for scores to count. Semi-pro shoot matches listed in their series and must shoot in PRO at the AR15/ROCK match for it to count. AM can shoot the matches listed in their series and must shoot AM at the AR15/ROCK match for it to count. Per the current rules list on the 3GN site (not emails); to get in the qualifier for PRO you must finish in the top 25 of the SEMI-PRO series. 8. 3GN Pro Series Qualification8.1: Following the 2012 3GN season, the top 25 3GN Semi-Pro Series competitors will earn an invitation into the 2013-2014 3GN Pro Series Qualification match (Venue TBD). These slots will go to the top 25 only. Any unused slot will be forfeited and go unused. 8.2: The top 25 Semi-Pro Series competitors will be based on the final 3GN Semi-Pro standings at the end of the 2012 3GN season. David E. No David, The rules are pretty clear. "Pro" shooters are allowed to compete in the divisional series as well. Anyone participating in the Semi-pro, or Amatuer series is not allowed to participate in the divisional series. What this will effectively do is make the divisional series just a bonus for the pro shooters. As they will be the only people allowed to compete in it, other than those that choose not to participate in the other divisions, but who would choos just to compete in the divisional series other than the pro shooters? The guys that want to become pros are forced to shoot semi-pro, and I am not yet clear on the advantages of shooting amatuer, other than not competing with the guys in Pro and Semi-pro. 1. Eligibility 1.1: The 3GN Divisional Series is open to any competitor. However, a competitor may be registered in ONLY one of the following 3GN points series: 3GN Divisional Series, 3GN Semi-Pro Series, or 3GN Edited February 21, 2012 by Stlhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 ... and I am not yet clear on the advantages of shooting amatuer, other than not competing with the guys in Pro and Semi-pro. That is the benefit. You get to compete with people closer to your skill level rather than those who are pro or those who think they want to be pro. Any word on how much the fee is going to be to shoot semi pro or amateur? http://3gunnation.com/pages/3-gun_nation_semi-pro_divisional_championship http://3gunnation.com/pages/3-gun_nation_amateur_series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Maybe I should shoot semi pro? You should! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz41 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 ... and I am not yet clear on the advantages of shooting amatuer, other than not competing with the guys in Pro and Semi-pro. That is the benefit. You get to compete with people closer to your skill level rather than those who are pro or those who think they want to be pro. Any word on how much the fee is going to be to shoot semi pro or amateur? http://3gunnation.com/pages/3-gun_nation_semi-pro_divisional_championship http://3gunnation.com/pages/3-gun_nation_amateur_series Ah there it is. Thanks Corey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Maybe I should shoot semi pro? Gamer! No David,The rules are pretty clear. "Pro" shooters are allowed to compete in the divisional series as well. Anyone participating in the Semi-pro, or Amateur series is not allowed to participate in the divisional series. What this will effectively do is make the divisional series just a bonus for the pro shooters. As they will be the only people allowed to compete in it, other than those that choose not to participate in the other divisions, but who would choose just to compete in the divisional series other than the pro shooters? The guys that want to become pros are forced to shoot semi-pro, and I am not yet clear on the advantages of shooting amateur, other than not competing with the guys in Pro and Semi-pro. Looks like I was wrong on this one. Doesn’t make sense unless like you said it is to give a bonus to PRO shooters. Should be open to all or none I say! Problem is what I want doesn't matter. Having it open to all shooters would give that “one match shooter” a chance to possibly bring home some bucks, unlikely but possible. Kind of a wildcard thing. David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Per the current rules list on the 3GN site (not emails); to get in the qualifier for PRO you must finish in the top 25 of the SEMI-PRO series. David E. Indeed that's how it looks. Guess I'm done with 3GN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 In my unsolicited and dubious opinion, the greatest benefit would be to have everyone competing heads up like it has been in the past. Segregating competitors into groups will dilute competition, not foster it. If everyone competes heads up shooters will eventually end up ranked near the people that are similar in skill level anyway. No matter how the deck is stacked, people will still only be competitive with those shooters that are somewhat equivalent in skills, wether they are in the top of a weaker group or the bottom of a very strong group. The idea of leveling the play field has been beaten to death. This would also eliminate the question of who is a "Pro", you take the top how ever many from last year and thats that. Everyone would compete heads up in all the matches, and only the top however many would be invited to the "special" matches. This would make for an inclusive system where the 3GN people could still have their exclusive made for TV matches. I think that in the long run segregating those that wear fancy shirts and are compensated for using the certain gear from those that the sponsors hope to sell the gear to will be counterproductive. A case could be made for having the made for TV matches fancy shirts only, but for most of the matches if there are not consumers there to see the fancy shirts on the top shooters (or TV cameras watching even move) then the sponsors are not getting any value for their investment. If a "Pro" shooter wins a match, and there are only other "pro" shooters there watching, how does that energize the non-pro participants of the sport, or influence their spending habits? But what do I know, and who would care what I think, as I don't even wear a fancy shirt when I shoot, I don't care about TV ratings, and I have nothing to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlaw973 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 A couple question's, 1: if a person signs up and pays membership, in say the Amateur division, and RO's one of the matches as well as shoots it as an RO, does his score for that match count toward one of the 3? 2: more of a comment than question, the 3GN rules and classes/divisions only effect anything IF you join, don't join and everything is still the same as it's been, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What's the difference between pro and pro?Pros get paid. Pros don't pay to shoot. Semantics. But the whole thing is confusing, changing all the time, not well thought out, and certainly with the alleged prize money being given out to winners, it would behoove the organizers to be presenting the situation in a more cogent manner. Not happening. The "rules" of the 3Gun tour are copied from IMGA rules and USPSA rules. Those rules books should be cited, as in a footnote. Looks more like WWF than a legitimate competition. I have been wrong before, and will be wrong again. But having an FN shooter win the FN sponsored series in Las Vegas made me tune it out. I will try to get to matches I shoot, have fun, and ignore everything else. 3GN may be important in the future, but they are not now. Not much different between a "PRO and PRO?" Looks like they thought it out pretty well. -You can only compete in one series; so a PRO level gamer cannot shoot PRO, SEMI-PRO, Divisional, amateur and collect prize money from each. - Rules are pretty clear; PROs can shoot the pro matches listed in PRO for scores to count. Semi-pro shoot matches listed in their series and must shoot in PRO at the AR15/ROCK match for it to count. AM can shoot the matches listed in their series and must shoot AM at the AR15/ROCK match for it to count. Per the current rules list on the 3GN site (not emails); to get in the qualifier for PRO you must finish in the top 25 of the SEMI-PRO series. 8. 3GN Pro Series Qualification8.1: Following the 2012 3GN season, the top 25 3GN Semi-Pro Series competitors will earn an invitation into the 2013-2014 3GN Pro Series Qualification match (Venue TBD). These slots will go to the top 25 only. Any unused slot will be forfeited and go unused. 8.2: The top 25 Semi-Pro Series competitors will be based on the final 3GN Semi-Pro standings at the end of the 2012 3GN season. David E. Thanks. I get it. I was just having a little fun with Jesse about the true meaning of Professional Shooter. Not the arcane and mysterious ways of 3G Nation. It isn't really well thought out, but if you think so, be my guest. I like Mike Gibson's rules. "these are the rules, unless I decide to change them". Very straightforward. And this 3GN stuff has all occurred after a lot of matches were already full, about to be full, or became hot matches, when in the past they were nice vacations with a 3 Gun Match of substance attached. If Fort Benning decides that it is in their interest to host a 3 Gun Match again, which by all accounts it was, that will change the slant on things considerably. If the AMU decides they will only shoot matches organized by others and not put their own match on, I think it is a bad decision. Thread drift off. Go get 'em three gunners!!! 3 Gun is fun.DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Bummer. I can't shoot much at all this year because of work. Only one of the 3GN matches. Guess I'm out for 2013 as well. This is stupid. I don't always agree with Chuck, but he's dead on here and too much of a gentleman to truly put it into perspective. However, as it stands now, this is the case. There are a number of shooters like Chuck, who have demonstrated ability to be at the very top of the sport, who would not be eligible to compete in the "Pro" matches or would not be invited. That's like saying Derek Jeter can't compete because he had to take a year off to rehab his ACL. There has to be a method, if you are talking about making 3 Gun Nation a legitimate competition, rather than some lumped up group of people from an arbitrarily chosen set of matches, of getting on the "Pro" tour. Like PGA Q school or something. The matches really need to be rated, also, kind of like pitches in rock climbing, grading them as easy, difficult, moderate, or a 5.15b(YDS). {a 5.15b) is difficult, needs aid(ropes and gear, and a fall means death}. I know Pat Kelley said,"we had to start somewhere and feelings will be hurt". We are not talking about feelings here. We are talking about true competition, with the ability to have new people come into the scene and compete against the best-or conversely, the best be able to get in and compete. That has always been the case in any IPSC, USPSA or 3 Gun Match. If you thought you could compete, you enter and do it. With a closed system that may or may not have validity, trying to make a TV show, and stipulating weird criteria - it gives unknown results. I find that TV skews competition too much, as anyone who has attended an ESPN televised event will agree, TV timeouts suck, interrupt momentum and are for money, period. They detract from the event. If you put on raging', bitchin', matches with great stages and competition, and film it innovatively or correctly, consumers will want to watch. If you don't, they won't. But if it is perceived that the actual competition is really just about a few people or cherry picked subjectively, it changes the perceptions greatly. We'll see. DVC This may be the best TV show ever, and everyone will make tons of money and be as famous as Troy Landry, the King of the Bayou. "it's a tree shaker-it's a tree shaker." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Bummer. I can't shoot much at all this year because of work. Only one of the 3GN matches. Guess I'm out for 2013 as well. This is stupid. I don't always agree with Chuck, but he's dead on here and too much of a gentleman to truly put it into perspective. You're right, it is stupid that you don't always agree with me...oh wait, there is a period there. And how dare you call me a gentleman. You owe me a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 No problemo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As we all see, Rob has his hands full trying to shape the future of this, I am wishing him all the best and along for the ride to see how the train runs, and our good friends that can't make it this year will be me missed greatly and make us wonder what would have been, but allow a few more people in that wouldn't have been otherwise. Hopefully my work schedule holds and I can make the required events as planned, Good luck Rob, we expect the match to be as good as your shooting jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I was exceptionally honored to be invited to compete on the Pro Tour, but military obligations make it impossible for me to attend the two mandatory shoots. Chad had indicated that Rob may be able to issue waiver(s) for military-service conflicts but I didn't want to detract from the prestige of the Pro Tour by failing to make the mandatory matches. I still plan to compete on the Semi-Pro side and compete for a Pro slot next year - hopefully, my schedule will be less hectic then. I was a bit skeptical at first, but the more I see of 3GN - the more I like it. Class act folks who really seem to care about the sport more than the almighty dollar. Really hope 3GN succeeds and continues to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As we all see, Rob has his hands full trying to shape the future of this, I am wishing him all the best and along for the ride to see how the train runs, and our good friends that can't make it this year will be me missed greatly and make us wonder what would have been, but allow a few more people in that wouldn't have been otherwise. Hopefully my work schedule holds and I can make the required events as planned, Good luck Rob, we expect the match to be as good as your shooting jc Very well put, Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I was exceptionally honored to be invited to compete on the Pro Tour, but military obligations make it impossible for me to attend the two mandatory shoots. Chad had indicated that Rob may be able to issue waiver(s) for military-service conflicts but I didn't want to detract from the prestige of the Pro Tour by failing to make the mandatory matches. I still plan to compete on the Semi-Pro side and compete for a Pro slot next year - hopefully, my schedule will be less hectic then. I was a bit skeptical at first, but the more I see of 3GN - the more I like it. Class act folks who really seem to care about the sport more than the almighty dollar. Really hope 3GN succeeds and continues to grow. Please get that exception. You have earned it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephensOutdoors Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Any word on how much the fee is going to be to shoot semi pro or amateur? $25 Looks like the 3-Gun Nation Store is up & running on their site & you can get it on it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Any word on how much the fee is going to be to shoot semi pro or amateur? $25 Looks like the 3-Gun Nation Store is up & running on their site & you can get it on it there. Site is working. Just signed up for the Am series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfish73 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'm in for Semi-Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I was exceptionally honored to be invited to compete on the Pro Tour, but military obligations make it impossible for me to attend the two mandatory shoots. Chad had indicated that Rob may be able to issue waiver(s) for military-service conflicts but I didn't want to detract from the prestige of the Pro Tour by failing to make the mandatory matches. I still plan to compete on the Semi-Pro side and compete for a Pro slot next year - hopefully, my schedule will be less hectic then. I was a bit skeptical at first, but the more I see of 3GN - the more I like it. Class act folks who really seem to care about the sport more than the almighty dollar. Really hope 3GN succeeds and continues to grow. Please get that exception. You have earned it! Thanks Jesse; really appreciate your kind words. If I can't do it "right" (shoot the mandatory events), I don't want to marginalize the "Pro" aspect of the tour with exemptions. I'm running and gunning in Semi-Pro and that'll have to be good enough for now. My goal is to finish high enough in this year's Semi-Pro race to get an invitation to shoot in the Pro qualifying match for 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I just noticed 3GN shooter profiles have just 40 shooters. Might these be the current PRO series shooters? David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now