cworks Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) So I recently purchased a used Giraud Trimmer and I am having problems getting a uniform debur and chamfer. The guy I bought it from said he trimmed about 300 rounds. It looked practically brand new so in my opinion he was telling the truth. On with my problem... One side will be trimmed perfectly, but the other side will barely be trimmed at all. I cant get my camera to take a good enough picture. Also it seems like it takes forever to trim a case! I spend about 5 second per round, is this normal? Edited November 19, 2011 by cworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I just received a new Giraud less than a month ago. It came set up perfectly for the cal I bought it for (223). If you are trimming for a caliber that the machine is not set up for you may have to make some adjustments to the carbide insert in the cutting head. Some cutting heads may not be able to adjust for caliber your switching to. If the machine didnt come with setup instructions, I believe they are on the Giraud website. 5 seconds sounds a touch long for the Giraud. A really long case may take 3 seconds with a little twist to smooth out the out of round condition of the case. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) So I recently purchased a used Giraud Trimmer and I am having problems getting a uniform debur and chamfer. The guy I bought it from said he trimmed about 300 rounds. It looked practically brand new so in my opinion he was telling the truth. On with my problem... One side will be trimmed perfectly, but the other side will barely be trimmed at all. I cant get my camera to take a good enough picture. Also it seems like it takes forever to trim a case! I spend about 5 second per round, is this normal? Are you rotating the casing? Apply more pressure to get it to trim faster - you won't slow that motor down. For me - 2 seconds if the case is 1.760+ If I'm trimming for uniformity, it's in and out. Edited November 19, 2011 by DyNo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 My trimmer is set up for 223 as well. When I first got it, it wasn't de-burring at all. It was actually causing a little burr and was chamfering way to much. So I followed the instruction manual and thought I had it adjusted right. After about 100 rounds I started noticing that it was cutting uniformly. I noticed that if i put pressure to the 12, 6, 3, and 9 o'clock positions it cuts pretty even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 So I recently purchased a used Giraud Trimmer and I am having problems getting a uniform debur and chamfer. The guy I bought it from said he trimmed about 300 rounds. It looked practically brand new so in my opinion he was telling the truth. On with my problem... One side will be trimmed perfectly, but the other side will barely be trimmed at all. I cant get my camera to take a good enough picture. Also it seems like it takes forever to trim a case! I spend about 5 second per round, is this normal? Are you rotating the casing? I am Apply more pressure to get it to trim faster - you won't slow that motor down.Ok, i was taking it easy because the manual said to slowly apply pressure For me - 2 seconds if the case is 1.760+ I am trimming to about 1.752... to short? If I'm trimming for uniformity, it's in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have never had any issues with the one i have. If your brass is way out of whack it would trim one side and not the other. I would take out the case holder and clean it out, there might be some crud in there thats causing misalignment. I would also rotate the cutter to a new fresh cutting surface, you have three there to play with. Place a case in with the cutter loose to get things lined up and play with the cutter until you get uniform results inside and out. You don't need to chamfer/debur that much, just take the edge off. Ensure you apply direct straight pressure. I can trim a case in like 1/2 a second. I suppose you also might have some crud inside the sliding case holder thing that might be misalign things too. I would also call Girud and he will be sure to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) You saying something about crud in there makes me think... When I pull the case out after trimming it seems like it is stuck and then finally pulls out. I am going to an Army Ball tonight but will check that out as soon as i get back! ...if i am sober enough, gotta love an open bar!! Edited November 19, 2011 by cworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Make sure you are using it properly. Press the case in and rotate it as far as your wrist can twist while holding the casing against the blade. (Constant pressure) Anything between 1.740-1.760 seems appropriate for my purposes. I TRY to cut mine to 1.750. When I trim matched headstamps, I get that number - otherwise, it's just close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Look for small chips in the shoulder area of the holder. A chip will mess up the trim for sure. I found this out with mine. If you are using the Giraud in a horizontal orientation you may want to try the vertical position. Vertical helps keep small chips from getting into the case holder. Let me be Mr. Obvious here....you are trimming after sizing right? I like to tumble off the case lube before I trim with the Giraud, that way it is less likely to pick up trash in the case holder. My case holder seems to trim @ 1.755 - 1.750. Most @ 1.753 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachronism Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I keep a short cleaning rod with a bronze brush on it handy when trimming brass with my Gracey. Every once in a while, I'll shut off the machine and rund a brush through it. You could also use an old chamber brush, if you have one. I have had an occasional brass chip take up residence in the case holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) Ok i had to get the wife's D90 out to take some pics. I took them through a magnifying glass so they are not the clearest. I labeled the brass 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock to help better describe the problem 12 o'clock position has a good de-burr and chamfer. Maybe a little much but looks good to me. But you can already notice that the chamfer is already getting out of whack 3 o'clock position has practically no de-burr and half chamfered 6 o'clock has no de-burr and very little chamfer. 9 o'clock position has a good de-burr and you can tell that the chamfer is starting to come back. So basically when the chamfer is good, the de-burr isn't there. When the de-burr is good chamfer isn't the best. Keep in mind I bought this used and don't have the original brass to compare to. But I have used all 3 cutting edges and cleaned the case holder. I also trim in the vertical position. If I rotate, the results are the same as above. I also re-size before trimming Edited November 20, 2011 by cworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Anybody care to chime in?? I have completely disassembled and cleaned everything that has to do with cutting. I notice that my shell holder has a little play in it, not that much, but it does cut more off if I tweak the brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Just got off the phone with Mr. Doug, he said that 99% of the time it's the brass. He stated that the case mouth is more than likely not concentric with the case body. He told me to look at my re-sizing die to see if the de-capping pin was centered in the die. So using the inside jaws of my caliper I measured from the de-capping pin to the inside of my die, off by maybe 0.001. But just curious if there is a way to get the de-capping pin exactly centered in the die. I am using a .223 Dillon Carbide Full Length resizing die. Edited November 21, 2011 by cworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachronism Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Decap your cases seperately in a universal decapping die. Then size them in your dies without the stem in it, just the bare die. Then try trimming. You could have a problem with stem ball induced runout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 dont really understand what stem ball induced runout is, but i will try that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why not send Doud Giraud an e-mail doug at giraudtool.com http://www.giraudtool.com/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) i talked to him on the phone and he said it was my brass. I have tried every brand of brass I have, even pulled a few rounds and used that brass. Also tried de-priming on a universal de-capping die and resizing on another and that didn't help either Edited November 22, 2011 by cworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Athouse Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Maybe this is why it was for sale to start with. Only problems ive ever had is if the case holder gets gummed up with lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 After messing with it for several hours, I think Mr. Doug is right. Problem is, I can't figure out how do get my die set up right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 After messing with it for several hours, I think Mr. Doug is right. Problem is, I can't figure out how do get my die set up right. get the manual from here. http://www.giraudtool.com/Giraud%20Trimmer%20Inc.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) I have the manual that came with it, but after re-reading it in the link you posted, it says it will come out "PRETTY UNIFORM". So does that mean that what i am getting it as good as it gets? The pictures I posted are of a piece that was pretty out of whack . Did this so people would understand what i was talking about. Kinda getting aggravated and might have a Giraud in the classifieds and a Dillon trimmer ordered soon! Edited November 25, 2011 by cworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 On my Giraud, there's a tiny amount of slop in the shell holder. If you push the brass to one side or another when trimming, you'll end up with that type of effect. You need to keep it entirely vertical and not exert any pressure in any direction other than straight down. Conversely, if you extert pressure in one direction, you need to keep it constant throughout the trim and rotation of the case. I've never seen brass come out of mine nearly as bad as yours, though. Once you've induced any case neck run out in your brass, it's hard to fully correct. I would suggest trying 100 rounds of new brass before throwing in the towel. Trim 10-20 from factory length back to ~1.740" or similar, and see if you get the same results. If new, unfired brass trims true, you have a partial answer. Next, try sizing 10-20 new cases without the decapping rod and sizing ball as other suggested, then trimming them back .01". If they trim true, then you likely have decapping rod induced run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) On my Giraud, there's a tiny amount of slop in the shell holder. If you push the brass to one side or another when trimming, you'll end up with that type of effect. You need to keep it entirely vertical and not exert any pressure in any direction other than straight down. Conversely, if you extert pressure in one direction, you need to keep it constant throughout the trim and rotation of the case. I've never seen brass come out of mine nearly as bad as yours, though. Once you've induced any case neck run out in your brass, it's hard to fully correct. I would suggest trying 100 rounds of new brass before throwing in the towel. Trim 10-20 from factory length back to ~1.740" or similar, and see if you get the same results. If new, unfired brass trims true, you have a partial answer. Next, try sizing 10-20 new cases without the decapping rod and sizing ball as other suggested, then trimming them back .01". If they trim true, then you likely have decapping rod induced run out. Ok, I will try this tomorrow. Well, If I don't have to fight people to get into the store! But I have tried inserting the bass straight into the cutter and also pushing it at a slight angle. Pushing it one way or the other just makes it cut like the above pictures. Thanks for all the input though Edited November 25, 2011 by cworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Ok, so those of you that have been trying to help me solve my problems, I think I have it narrowed down. With the help of an Enos member, I have experimented with several things to narrow the problem down. Basically my trimmer is out of specs. I know some of you out there will probably disagree but the testing I have done proves that point. On top of other things I have done, the following test confirmed my theory....I took 6 pieces of brass and marked one side to be the "top". I inserted 3 pieces of brass and manually rotated the cutter head around the brass. All three times it trimmed deeper on the left side. Then I turned the motor on and came up with the same results. I tried tweaking the parts to possibly make it cut more even and nothing helps. I have trimmed about 20 pieces of brass and all em them point to the machine being out of specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cworks Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Just got off the phone with Mr. Doug and he told me to send it to him and he will make it right. Thanks for everyones help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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