spanky Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 You might be "holding" the ammo (in the box) but you aren't "handling" it. The word “handling” does not preclude competitors from entering aSafety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bag, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area. What's the difference between magazines/speed loaders in a bag and cartridges in a box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Singlestack, I know your USPSA membership lapsed for a time. It was possibly during that period that the July/August 2010 issue (Vol. 27, No. 4) was published. On page 71 of that issue you would have read the following exchange with DNROI... Safety Area DQ Details If I walk to the safety area, bag my gun and take off my belt, which has loaded mags on it, am I now "handling ammo" in a safety area, subject to DQ? ANSWER Rule 10.5.12 States: Handling live ammo or dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices in a Safety Area, or failing to comply with Rule 2.4.1. The word "handling" does not preclude competitors from entering a Safety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bags, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area. So based on the above rule, you can enter a safety area, remove your handgun from the holster and bag it, then remove the belt with the loaded magazines still in it and walk away with no issues unless you were to physically remove the magazines with the ammo in them. If you did in fact receive that issue, then a remedial Reading 101 course may be in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 What's the difference between magazines/speed loaders in a bag and cartridges in a box? Can you stuff a box of ammo in your gun and fire it? That'd save a lot of money on mags! BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 What's the difference between magazines/speed loaders in a bag and cartridges in a box? Can you stuff a box of ammo in your gun and fire it? That'd save a lot of money on mags! BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Singlestack, I know your USPSA membership lapsed for a time. It was possibly during that period that the July/August 2010 issue (Vol. 27, No. 4) was published. On page 71 of that issue you would have read the following exchange with DNROI... Safety Area DQ Details If I walk to the safety area, bag my gun and take off my belt, which has loaded mags on it, am I now "handling ammo" in a safety area, subject to DQ? ANSWER Rule 10.5.12 States: Handling live ammo or dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices in a Safety Area, or failing to comply with Rule 2.4.1. The word "handling" does not preclude competitors from entering a Safety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bags, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area. So based on the above rule, you can enter a safety area, remove your handgun from the holster and bag it, then remove the belt with the loaded magazines still in it and walk away with no issues unless you were to physically remove the magazines with the ammo in them. If you did in fact receive that issue, then a remedial Reading 101 course may be in order. Huh? Perhaps you need to reread my position. I said nothing at all contrary to this. I might suggest you need some remedial reading 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Huh? Perhaps you need to reread my position. I said nothing at all contrary to this. I might suggest you need some remedial reading 101. Sorry. I thought you were the one who wrote, "I also choke on any circumstances in 2.4.2. Hard to get around." Must have been someone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Huh? Perhaps you need to reread my position. I said nothing at all contrary to this. I might suggest you need some remedial reading 101. Sorry. I thought you were the one who wrote, "I also choke on any circumstances in 2.4.2. Hard to get around." Must have been someone else... I did. How is that contrary to NROIs' position? I never said anything about bags or belts. *edited to add* Or speed loading devices. Edited November 3, 2011 by Singlestack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Huh? Perhaps you need to reread my position. I said nothing at all contrary to this. I might suggest you need some remedial reading 101. Sorry. I thought you were the one who wrote, "I also choke on any circumstances in 2.4.2. Hard to get around." Must have been someone else... I did. How is that contrary to NROIs' position? I never said anything about bags or belts. *edited to add* Or speed loading devices. Can I take a magazine inside my CR Speed pouch, off my belt, in the safety area, and twirl it like a baton? Is there a difference between that and a box containing ammunition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Can I take a magazine inside my CR Speed pouch, off my belt, in the safety area, and twirl it like a baton? Is there a difference between that and a box containing ammunition? Only if it matches your sparkly leotard and majorette boots. Strictly according to the rules as I understand them, you'd be good, but I wouldn't be surprised to see you defending your position in an arbitration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Can I take a magazine inside my CR Speed pouch, off my belt, in the safety area, and twirl it like a baton? As long as your mag does not fly out! Is there a difference between that and a box containing ammunition? I sure hope so. I spent a lot of money on my SVI mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 As long as he doesn't catch it after it flies out, he's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 As long as he doesn't catch it after it flies out, he's fine. But what if a real big dude is walking by and the mag hits the big dude in the head! All full of bullets and stuff! I'd say "fine" might be a temporary thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Adamson Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 As long as he doesn't catch it after it flies out, he's fine. But what if a real big dude is walking by and the mag hits the big dude in the head! All full of bullets and stuff! I'd say "fine" might be a temporary thing. Probably an over simplification, but in my RO class, it was said.... if it's *one step to the gun*, you are in trouble with ammo in the safe area, more than one step, you are fine... e.g. box of ammo, closed, not liked, but not DQ'able, open, one step from the gun. Live rounds in the mag, mag not in any carrying device, one step from the gun; live rounds in a mag in a belt holder/mag holder - more than one step to the gun and ok... Sure there are special cases (isn't there to anything)... My *very first major* - FL open... hadn't been shooting very long... was overwhelmed with everything going on... Got to the safe area... nice big tabled area where you could put stuff (bet ya know where this is going).... dropped my bag on the table, proceeded to put on my belt. Got my mags out, put them in the holders (empty)... got the gun out, put it in its holster.... <brain out of gear for the next part>.... waiting with others that I came with... figured I'd load the mags while waiting, I mean the gun was on my holster so no biggie right... pulled out a box of ammo (one of those plastic 100 round boxes)... put it on the table (lid closed).... Thankfully one of my shooting associates coached me *quickly* before badness happened.... back in the bag, loaded my mags at the first stage.... Will never do that again!... Amazing how stuff burns in your mind... Plus, would have sucked to go home without even shooting a single bullet from a pretty expensive match!... Figured while on topic, I'd share. Now no comments from the local (to me) peanut gallery ... Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 As long as he doesn't catch it after it flies out, he's fine. But what if a real big dude is walking by and the mag hits the big dude in the head! All full of bullets and stuff! I'd say "fine" might be a temporary thing. Probably an over simplification, but in my RO class, it was said.... if it's *one step to the gun*, you are in trouble with ammo in the safe area, more than one step, you are fine... e.g. box of ammo, closed, not liked, but not DQ'able, open, one step from the gun. Live rounds in the mag, mag not in any carrying device, one step from the gun; live rounds in a mag in a belt holder/mag holder - more than one step to the gun and ok... Sure there are special cases (isn't there to anything)... The problem is, no matter what is taught, there is no rule that supports "*one step to the gun*". An ARB committee has to go by the rules. In NROI's answer to the FS question, he talks about handling mags and speed loading devices. Nothing about ammo boxes. The question was about handling mags, not ammo boxes so it does not even apply. IMO, "any circumstances" covers ammo boxes pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaciLyn Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I wouldn't get in on this discussion between you, Bill and John for anything in the world! I just happened to see you mention George Jones and the level 1 RO course and "bar exam". I was fortunate enough to be in a Level 1 RO class, last month in Tampa, instructed by George Jones. WOW! What an experience! He is not only a wealth of knowledge but a very good instructor able to keep the attention of 22 men and myself for two very long days. I had no idea going into this class how much I would learn so quickly. If I'm correct in assuming that when you say "bar exam" you're talking about the RO- Level 1 Certification Exam, I'm currently struggling with the last 4 questions but will be forwarding it to him tomorrow in hopes of getting a passing grade. I'd encourage anyone serious about competeing to take the class. What a great experience! Wish me luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok - I had a joke --- but I'll respond seriously now. The "one-step to the gun" teaching is a way to determine whether the competitor is not in compliance with the rules already quoted, 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. 2.4.2 calls out rounds, both dummy and live, et al as well as loaded magazines and speed loaders. Your hands need to be on the rounds themselves or a free loaded magazine or speed loader. If the rounds (ammunition) is in a box, you are not handling the live rounds, you are handling the box. If you apply the determination of one-step - it helps you realize that handling the box is not the same as handling the rounds themselves. There is no rule on how to use overlay, just that they should be used. Likewise there is a rule that handling of ammunition in safe areas not be allowed - the "one-step to the gun" teaching is how to interpret the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok - I had a joke --- but I'll respond seriously now. The "one-step to the gun" teaching is a way to determine whether the competitor is not in compliance with the rules already quoted, 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. 2.4.2 calls out rounds, both dummy and live, et al as well as loaded magazines and speed loaders. Your hands need to be on the rounds themselves or a free loaded magazine or speed loader. If the rounds (ammunition) is in a box, you are not handling the live rounds, you are handling the box. If you apply the determination of one-step - it helps you realize that handling the box is not the same as handling the rounds themselves. There is no rule on how to use overlay, just that they should be used. Likewise there is a rule that handling of ammunition in safe areas not be allowed - the "one-step to the gun" teaching is how to interpret the rule. Ok, fine I just issued you a Match DQ for handling a box of ammo in the safe area (not saying I would, but stuff happens). What rule are you going to use to file your ARB? You can't write "well, it was taught in my RO class that one step away meant I was ok". 2.4.2 says "any circumstance". Where does the rules say your hands "need to be on the rounds themselfs"? You are making stuff up. I guess my biggest point here is, I don't like it when someone says "that's how it is taught so that's the rule". We have a rule book for rules. I agree that picking up a box of ammo to reach something under it should be ok, I just can't see that in the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Adamson Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Ok - I had a joke --- but I'll respond seriously now. The "one-step to the gun" teaching is a way to determine whether the competitor is not in compliance with the rules already quoted, 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. 2.4.2 calls out rounds, both dummy and live, et al as well as loaded magazines and speed loaders. Your hands need to be on the rounds themselves or a free loaded magazine or speed loader. If the rounds (ammunition) is in a box, you are not handling the live rounds, you are handling the box. If you apply the determination of one-step - it helps you realize that handling the box is not the same as handling the rounds themselves. There is no rule on how to use overlay, just that they should be used. Likewise there is a rule that handling of ammunition in safe areas not be allowed - the "one-step to the gun" teaching is how to interpret the rule. Ok, fine I just issued you a Match DQ for handling a box of ammo in the safe area (not saying I would, but stuff happens). What rule are you going to use to file your ARB? You can't write "well, it was taught in my RO class that one step away meant I was ok". 2.4.2 says "any circumstance". Where does the rules say your hands "need to be on the rounds themselfs"? You are making stuff up. I guess my biggest point here is, I don't like it when someone says "that's how it is taught so that's the rule". We have a rule book for rules. I agree that picking up a box of ammo to reach something under it should be ok, I just can't see that in the rules. I think you are missing the point... it's not that the "one step to the gun" is the *rule*, it's that it was provided as a way to assess or use the rule, just like the overlay. Second the rule you would use in ARB is 2.4.2/10.5.12 which directly quotes and pretty much defines "handling" - and specifically storage devices. 2.4.2 Dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap capsand empty cases), loaded magazines, loaded speed loading devices and live rounds must not be handled in a Safety Area under any circumstances (see Rule 10.5.12). 10.5.12 Handling live or dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines or loaded speedloading devices in a Safety Area, or failing to comply with Rule 2.4.1. The word “handling” does not preclude competitors from entering a Safety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bag, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area Edited November 4, 2011 by Alan Adamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Adamson Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Further if you don't like the "one step to the gun" usage, then perhaps you should take it up with George Jones as that is how he teaches the interpretation of 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. Edited November 4, 2011 by Alan Adamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok - I had a joke --- but I'll respond seriously now. The "one-step to the gun" teaching is a way to determine whether the competitor is not in compliance with the rules already quoted, 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. 2.4.2 calls out rounds, both dummy and live, et al as well as loaded magazines and speed loaders. Your hands need to be on the rounds themselves or a free loaded magazine or speed loader. If the rounds (ammunition) is in a box, you are not handling the live rounds, you are handling the box. If you apply the determination of one-step - it helps you realize that handling the box is not the same as handling the rounds themselves. There is no rule on how to use overlay, just that they should be used. Likewise there is a rule that handling of ammunition in safe areas not be allowed - the "one-step to the gun" teaching is how to interpret the rule. Ok, fine I just issued you a Match DQ for handling a box of ammo in the safe area (not saying I would, but stuff happens). What rule are you going to use to file your ARB? You can't write "well, it was taught in my RO class that one step away meant I was ok". 2.4.2 says "any circumstance". Where does the rules say your hands "need to be on the rounds themselfs"? You are making stuff up. I guess my biggest point here is, I don't like it when someone says "that's how it is taught so that's the rule". We have a rule book for rules. I agree that picking up a box of ammo to reach something under it should be ok, I just can't see that in the rules. I think you are missing the point... it's not that the "one step to the gun" is the *rule*, it's that it was provided as a way to assess or use the rule, just like the overlay. Second the rule you would use in ARB is 2.4.2/10.5.12 which directly quotes and pretty much defines "handling" - and specifically storage devices. 2.4.2 Dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap capsand empty cases), loaded magazines, loaded speed loading devices and live rounds must not be handled in a Safety Area under any circumstances (see Rule 10.5.12). 10.5.12 Handling live or dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines or loaded speedloading devices in a Safety Area, or failing to comply with Rule 2.4.1. The word “handling” does not preclude competitors from entering a Safety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bag, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area And where in there does it say ammo in boxes is ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Further if you don't like the "one step to the gun" usage, then perhaps you should take it up with George Jones as that is how he teaches the interpretation of 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. It's not that I don't like it, it's just not a rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok - I had a joke --- but I'll respond seriously now. The "one-step to the gun" teaching is a way to determine whether the competitor is not in compliance with the rules already quoted, 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. 2.4.2 calls out rounds, both dummy and live, et al as well as loaded magazines and speed loaders. Your hands need to be on the rounds themselves or a free loaded magazine or speed loader. If the rounds (ammunition) is in a box, you are not handling the live rounds, you are handling the box. If you apply the determination of one-step - it helps you realize that handling the box is not the same as handling the rounds themselves. There is no rule on how to use overlay, just that they should be used. Likewise there is a rule that handling of ammunition in safe areas not be allowed - the "one-step to the gun" teaching is how to interpret the rule. Ok, fine I just issued you a Match DQ for handling a box of ammo in the safe area (not saying I would, but stuff happens). What rule are you going to use to file your ARB? You can't write "well, it was taught in my RO class that one step away meant I was ok". 2.4.2 says "any circumstance". Where does the rules say your hands "need to be on the rounds themselfs"? You are making stuff up. I guess my biggest point here is, I don't like it when someone says "that's how it is taught so that's the rule". We have a rule book for rules. I agree that picking up a box of ammo to reach something under it should be ok, I just can't see that in the rules. John, well for starters, the competitor doesn't go straight to arb, when you DQ him. He appeals to the CRO, then the RM, then possibly the Arb committee. If Mark or I are the RM, I'm guessing we overturn your call..... Mark's probably geographically more likely..... :P And no, we don't have "just what's written in the book." When we read Section 11.2 (Composition of Committee) it becomes clear that it is highly desirable to have at least one and ideally more than one certified range official on the panel. If I'm the match director, picking the panel, I'll be looking to staff it with folks who are sensible, know the rules, and ideally have been to an RO seminar in the last five years..... My point is that the rules don't exist in a vacuum. If they did, and if they were crystal clear, and not subject to misinterpretation, then we wouldn't need NROI RO seminars at all. Every competitor who had read the rules once, would be capable of serving as a perfect range official at his/her first match..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok - I had a joke --- but I'll respond seriously now. The "one-step to the gun" teaching is a way to determine whether the competitor is not in compliance with the rules already quoted, 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. 2.4.2 calls out rounds, both dummy and live, et al as well as loaded magazines and speed loaders. Your hands need to be on the rounds themselves or a free loaded magazine or speed loader. If the rounds (ammunition) is in a box, you are not handling the live rounds, you are handling the box. If you apply the determination of one-step - it helps you realize that handling the box is not the same as handling the rounds themselves. There is no rule on how to use overlay, just that they should be used. Likewise there is a rule that handling of ammunition in safe areas not be allowed - the "one-step to the gun" teaching is how to interpret the rule. Ok, fine I just issued you a Match DQ for handling a box of ammo in the safe area (not saying I would, but stuff happens). What rule are you going to use to file your ARB? You can't write "well, it was taught in my RO class that one step away meant I was ok". 2.4.2 says "any circumstance". Where does the rules say your hands "need to be on the rounds themselfs"? You are making stuff up. I guess my biggest point here is, I don't like it when someone says "that's how it is taught so that's the rule". We have a rule book for rules. I agree that picking up a box of ammo to reach something under it should be ok, I just can't see that in the rules. At the safe table, the RO observed me take two MTM (plastic) 100 round boxes of my match ammunition out of my range bag so that I might gain access to where my match pistol was being held. I removed the boxes of ammunition from my bag, removed the the gun rug from the bottom of the bag and then again placed the 2 boxes back into the bag. At this time, the Range Officer informed my I was disqualified under 10.5.12 for handling ammunition in the safe area. For clarity, at no time was either of the two boxes opened, by accident or by deliberate action. 10.5.12 states: Handling live or dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices in a Safety Area, or failing to comply with Rule 2.4.1. The word “handling” does not preclude competitors from entering a Safety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bag, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area. As the ammunition was still within a closed box, I was not handling the ammunition, but moving the storage device it was enclosed within. As the rule does not state boxes of ammunition are not permitted to be handled, this does not meet the requirement of the rule. Additionally, 2.4.2 states: Dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines, loaded speed loading devices and live rounds must not be handled in a Safety Area under any circumstances (see Rule 10.5.12). 2.4.2 refers to "live rounds", and as the live rounds were contained within a box, they were not being directly handled. Finally, 10.5.12 clarifies that handling does not preclude handling of loaded magazines or speed loading devices as long as they are not removed from their storage devices. The clarification that loaded magazines in their storage devices is not a violation, the same inference should be applied to live rounds - "ammunition" contained within their storage devices. According to the statement by the RO and my testimony that at no time was actual "rounds" handled but the storage device of the rounds handled within the safety area, I hereby request reinstatement to the match as no violation of 10.5.12 actually occurred. Now that I've submitted my $100.00, experienced shooters selected to the arbitration committee - what say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok - I had a joke --- but I'll respond seriously now. The "one-step to the gun" teaching is a way to determine whether the competitor is not in compliance with the rules already quoted, 2.4.2 and 10.5.12. 2.4.2 calls out rounds, both dummy and live, et al as well as loaded magazines and speed loaders. Your hands need to be on the rounds themselves or a free loaded magazine or speed loader. If the rounds (ammunition) is in a box, you are not handling the live rounds, you are handling the box. If you apply the determination of one-step - it helps you realize that handling the box is not the same as handling the rounds themselves. There is no rule on how to use overlay, just that they should be used. Likewise there is a rule that handling of ammunition in safe areas not be allowed - the "one-step to the gun" teaching is how to interpret the rule. Ok, fine I just issued you a Match DQ for handling a box of ammo in the safe area (not saying I would, but stuff happens). What rule are you going to use to file your ARB? You can't write "well, it was taught in my RO class that one step away meant I was ok". 2.4.2 says "any circumstance". Where does the rules say your hands "need to be on the rounds themselfs"? You are making stuff up. I guess my biggest point here is, I don't like it when someone says "that's how it is taught so that's the rule". We have a rule book for rules. I agree that picking up a box of ammo to reach something under it should be ok, I just can't see that in the rules. I think you are missing the point... it's not that the "one step to the gun" is the *rule*, it's that it was provided as a way to assess or use the rule, just like the overlay. Second the rule you would use in ARB is 2.4.2/10.5.12 which directly quotes and pretty much defines "handling" - and specifically storage devices. 2.4.2 Dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap capsand empty cases), loaded magazines, loaded speed loading devices and live rounds must not be handled in a Safety Area under any circumstances (see Rule 10.5.12). 10.5.12 Handling live or dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines or loaded speedloading devices in a Safety Area, or failing to comply with Rule 2.4.1. The word “handling” does not preclude competitors from entering a Safety Area with ammunition in magazines or speed loading devices on their belt, in their pockets or in their range bag, provided the competitor does not physically remove the loaded magazines or loaded speed loading devices from their retaining or storage device while within the Safety Area And where in there does it say ammo in boxes is ok? 10.5.12 deals with disqualifying a competitor -- so it would really have to state that handling boxed ammo is not o.k...... Can you find me where it says that it's o.k. to dq a competitor for handling a box of ammo? How about for setting their range bag, containing ammo on the safe table? Not there, right? As a matter of fact the rule specifically says that ammo in pockets or a range bag is o.k., with the qualification that it only remains o.k. as long the competitor does not remove loaded mags or speed loaders from the bag..... Gotta read and really think about the whole thing, with an open mind, asking yourself what the rules writers wanted to convey -- not what you may have heard on multiple ranges during the last 15 years or so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 And where in there does it say ammo in boxes is ok? I would flip this back and say where does it say boxes aren't ok... as far as that's concerned, you should then be DQ'd for carrying around a range bag in the safe area as your handling a container with a container with ammunition in it. Let's say I have a cardboard box with three boxes of ammo in it - it's still ammo - it's still in a container, only with smaller containers in it. If you want to dice the rule that way, we can do it, and dq everyone carrying a range bag into the safe area with ammo in it. You're equating "ammunition" to include a box containing ammunition. I don't. It's a box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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