Uprange start question

[Bsbllrooster]

So for example the el pres has the following start position: START POSITION:

Standing in Box A, back to targets, toes of both feet against rear of fault line of Box A, both

wrists above respective shoulders. Handgun is loaded and holstered as per ready condition in

My question is could you start with your left foot over your right and then simply rotate thus facing downrange without having to lift your feet. Is there any rule against this?

[Nik Habicht]

So for example the el pres has the following start position: START POSITION:

Standing in Box A, back to targets, toes of both feet against rear of fault line of Box A, both

wrists above respective shoulders. Handgun is loaded and holstered as per ready condition in

My question is could you start with your left foot over your right and then simply rotate thus facing downrange without having to lift your feet. Is there any rule against this?

Sure, if you really think you can pull that off.....

[Bsbllrooster]

Hmmm. To me it seems like it could be faster in my mind but the real question is why aren't the pros doing it. Probably because it is not faster, or there is some rule against it. The advantage I see is that you don't have to pick up either foot, and your center of gravity doesn't change, your simple rotating around a single point as opposed to the typical turn and draw.

[B_Ayers]

Well if you try it, good luck! You are more prone to fall and drop your weapon which would be a DQ.

[Skydiver]

The feet crossed works well indoors and on smooth concrete, if you can stand in the middle of the box, and if you have shoes to match the surface. It doesn't work too well on gravel, dirt, or grass. It definitely does it work too well standing with toes against the rear fault line because there's very little room to pivot.

[sperman]

Could you have your head turned towards the targets?

[High Lord Gomer]

Hmmm, it doesn't say "facing uprange" which is defined in the glossary as:

Facing Uprange . . . . . . . . .Face and feet pointing straight uprange with shouldersparallel to the backstop.

...so I don't see why you couldn't turn your head. I thought there was an NROI ruling that more clearly defined that but I can't seem to find it right now.

[B_Ayers]

Well if the written stage brief says facing up range, then no head turning either.

[Flexmoney]

People have been trying to figure out how to turn and draw on here for about a decade now. (there are threads on it with good info...search them out)

If gaming the start position was a great solution...we'd all be doing it.

[sperman]

Well if the written stage brief says facing up range, then no head turning either.

But the WSB doesn't say facing uprange.

[LPatterson]

In this particular case you are right as it just says back to targets. This is one of the classifiers that NROI needs to throw out as it has been so badly gamed over the years. It is a valid test but just rewritting the stage procedure would conflict with past HHF's. Fix it and call it El Prez 2.

[Flexmoney]

It doesn't really matter how it is gamed since.... The ones gaming it aren't the ones that set the High Hit Factor.

[aztecdriver]

In this particular case you are right as it just says back to targets. This is one of the classifiers that NROI needs to throw out as it has been so badly gamed over the years. It is a valid test but just rewritting the stage procedure would conflict with past HHF's. Fix it and call it El Prez 2.

I'm a little lost - how was it gamed again?

[Skydiver]

I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that LPatterson feels that people have gamed El Pres by having both wrists above shoulders, but head cocked over the shoulder already looking at the targets. Perhaps the stage designer's "intent" was for the shooter's head to also be facing uprange.

Consider that people over the years have figured out that standing in the rear of the box towards one of the corners is a better technique. Would this also be considered "gaming", because the "intent" was for the shooter to be standing at the middle of the rear fault line?

[LPatterson]

It doesn't really matter how it is gamed since.... The ones gaming it aren't the ones that set the High Hit Factor.

Maybe not the highest hit factor but there are some Master shooters both Open and Limited at the local range that have the head and body turned almost 90 degree.

[aztecdriver]

It doesn't really matter how it is gamed since.... The ones gaming it aren't the ones that set the High Hit Factor.

Maybe not the highest hit factor but there are some Master shooters both Open and Limited at the local range that have the head and body turned almost 90 degree.

ok--- and how is this gamed. If everyone can do it - what's the problem?

[Flexmoney]

It doesn't really matter how it is gamed since.... The ones gaming it aren't the ones that set the High Hit Factor.

Maybe not the highest hit factor but there are some Master shooters both Open and Limited at the local range that have the head and body turned almost 90 degree.

If they didn't have their backs to the targets, then they shouldn't have been started (per the WSB).

But, it doesn't matter. I've shot the highest hit factor on El Prez...a few times. What you describe is not what it takes.

[West Texas Granny]

I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that LPatterson feels that people have gamed El Pres by having both wrists above shoulders, but head cocked over the shoulder already looking at the targets. Perhaps the stage designer's "intent" was for the shooter's head to also be facing uprange.

Consider that people over the years have figured out that standing in the rear of the box towards one of the corners is a better technique. Would this also be considered "gaming", because the "intent" was for the shooter to be standing at the middle of the rear fault line?

Wouldn't that require a level of dexterity that most do not have. Yet to see anyone turn their heads 180 degrees and if they had the ability that would be a significant advantage.

[kevin c]

But, it doesn't matter. I've shot the highest hit factor on El Prez...a few times. What you describe is not what it takes.

But, but, Flex.... you're not a normal mortal like the rest of us!