Disadvantages of a Para based open gun?

[pivoproseem]

I have no idea what some of the caveats might be except for thin dustcovers, having to get the mag catch modified to accept STI mags, and being a little porky compared to 2011 guns....any reason to just run away from one?

Edited October 24, 2011 by pivoproseem

[Religious Shooter]

Personally I own 3 Limited division Paras.

Last time I checked the frames were cast. So the frame-slide fit generally won't remain "tight" as long as the 2011 guns. Not really a problem with a slide mounted optic. Can be a problem with a frame mounted optic.

[Jon Merricks]

I've got a friend that has had a para open gun forever and has had the top rebuilt several times. Don't think he has had any troubles with the frame. Think he said its had more than 100k through it.

[kmca]

You already know about the thin dust cover. If you can find a STI for Para 170 mag, it's a lot cheaper to use Para mags and I can get one more round in than the STI mags. The round trigger guard can be a problem finding a safe race holster.

[iShootguns]

You already know about the thin dust cover. If you can find a STI for Para 170 mag, it's a lot cheaper to use Para mags and I can get one more round in than the STI mags. The round trigger guard can be a problem finding a safe race holster.

Won't the CRSpeed WSM II fit a Para no problem?

[Braxton1]

The only overt "disadvantage" besides the thin dust cover is weight. They are pretty heavy. I once had one that was almost 50 ounces empty.

Some of the little disadvantages include:

- If I were to build a Para Open Gun, I'd insist on Accu-Rails on it for the reasons outlined above.

- Cast guns are sometimes hard to get a good trigger job to last in. The inherent problem of a cast gun is in how they are finish-machined. A forged gun has a lot of extra metal that must be removed by machining; a cast gun is pretty close to final size when it comes out of the mold and is just cleaned up and appropriate holes drilled.

When setting the machine up to do these operations on either gun, a "Datum point" must be established from which all measurements along the X, Y, and Z axes are referenced. On a forged gun, there is some much extra metal that the datum point can pretty much be anywhere within a large tolerance and the rest of the cuts will be perfect. A cast gun's datum point must be danged close to perfect because there isn't really any metal to remove. If the machinist is off just a little bit, then the holes for the sear and hammer pin will be a little off (and "geometry" is critical there).

Any gunsmith worth his salt can compensate for this "off", but as the gun's parts wear in, the trigger WILL go to crap and have to be re-done.

I saw a Para-based Limited gun that was built by a VERY famous gunsmith right when Limited became a "Division" onto its own back in the early-90s. The gun was PRETTY, the trigger was nice, and it was exceptionally accurate. 500 rounds into it, the trigger started going bad, so it was sent back. Trigger job re-done. A few more hundred rounds, went bad again. Another UPS round-trip. Another few hundred, same thing.

It was finally determined that the pin holes for the hammer and sear pins were not parallel to each other from the factory. The trigger would be great as long as those parts were bearing against each other well, but as they started to wear, pressure would be exerted on one hammer hook and not the other, equalling "suck trigger". This 'smith would not build another Para after that.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Braxton1

[Joe4d]

Like alot of platforms, readily available 170mm mags that will work with 9mm will hold you up.

[kmca]

You already know about the thin dust cover. If you can find a STI for Para 170 mag, it's a lot cheaper to use Para mags and I can get one more round in than the STI mags. The round trigger guard can be a problem finding a safe race holster.

Won't the CRSpeed WSM II fit a Para no problem?

Yes the CRSpeed will work, as well as the Safariland and SpeedSec. I haven't tried any others. The problem I discovered is with the Ghost.

[AzYooper]

I have an old Para open gun. Actually the frame is a Para copy I think and has a square trigger guard. It was Accu-Railed when I got and it has never been loose. I have put probably 25k rounds through it and the previous owner about 9 years worth (maybe 50k?). It is still accurate and tight.

I did make myself a new mag-release and it has worked for a couple of years now, but I would wonder how long it might last.

I think that the trigger is as good as my custom open STI and some fellow shooters even think that it is better. Its hard for me to tell them apart.

My old para worked well, but I would rather have an STI. I just had my STI grip reduced (it is already undercut) and also had a sandpaper type grip added. These options would be a bit more difficult on the Para.

[jid2]

I built an open gun from a stock P18.9, although it took me a while to learn my way around everything and get it running - now that it runs it's fine. Having a gun that runs is the most important aspect.

I run the Para Mags because I started with two of them with the stock gun and that made it less money to get running instead of buying all STI's. But the Para mags seem to present the bullet at a better angle to the chamber compared to the 170mm STI mag I have. So the gun likes the Para mags a little better.

Since my gun uses a Para slide I had to sleeve the extractor hole so I could run a normal extractor instead of the Para PXT. The gun ran almost OK on the PXT and stock ejector but would stovepipe about 1 out of 100 rounds. So I switched to an Aftec and an extended extra tall ejector, along with lowering the ejection port and machining the slide to accept the ejector at full extra height. Now it ejects without issue.

The thin dust cover makes it difficult for me to keep screws tight on the C-more. I have used everything, red loctite along with covering the head of the screws with super glue. The rear screws always get loose.

If it's a really good deal and the gun runs I'd say it no big deal. But I think it's nice to have everything compatible with the STI's that everyone else runs when you have an issue to resolve.