Skydiver Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 And hence my joking opening statement in post #18 about FN translucent mags. I've seen some creative magnet placements among production shooters recently... some of them on the edge of the 2" limit from my eyeballing things. So what is the penalty for not having the mag obviously not within the 2" limit. It can't be a move up to Open, since Open also has the 2" limit. Rule 5.2.5.2 says that an RO must instruct the shooter to remedy the situation. Can the RO order this adjustment on the clock? Presumably the shooter can't argue for a reshoot for interference because 5.2.5.2 is quite explicit about the use of the word "immediately". I think the best the shooter can appeal for is interference if the shooter can show that the equipment was within 2" and that the instruction was not justified. 5.2.5.2 Any competitor who fails the foregoing test will be required to immediately adjust his holster or equipment to comply with the requirements of the relevant Division. The Range Master may make allowances for variations in these requirements due to anatomical considerations. Some competitors may not be able to fully comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'd argue that Open is not available if the competitor is non-compliant. But if that scenario really came up at a match I was RMing, I'd have an NROI instructor or two on the phone pretty quickly, if I couldn't get Amidon, for advice..... 6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise the competitor will shoot the match for no score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 They would be shooting for no score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 That brings up an interesting concern. In the heat of the moment a shooter slaps a mag on a magnet that's in front of a holster that is well behind the hipbone (so would the mag on the magnet be). He runs and cuts a sharp turn and the mag rotates, kicking the butt of the mag away from the body. Shooting for no score now, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 They would be shooting for no score. And which rule are we basing that on? The one I cited? Has anyone ever run that up the flagpole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 They would be shooting for no score. And which rule are we basing that on? The one I cited? Has anyone ever run that up the flagpole? The one you posted. 2" is a division requirement for all divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsydlooknin75 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 That brings up an interesting concern. In the heat of the moment a shooter slaps a mag on a magnet that's in front of a holster that is well behind the hipbone (so would the mag on the magnet be). He runs and cuts a sharp turn and the mag rotates, kicking the butt of the mag away from the body. Shooting for no score now, then? I believe the measurement is made from a straight line perpendicular to the inside of the belt at the top of the belt to the closest part of the mag. Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 They would be shooting for no score. And which rule are we basing that on? The one I cited? Has anyone ever run that up the flagpole? What Spanky said. Generally, we would move someone to Open if their equipment didn't meet the requirements for their declared division. But if the particular problem (handgun or mags more than 2" from the inner surface of the inner belt) wasn't permitted within the equipment requirements for Open, what other choice is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 That brings up an interesting concern. In the heat of the moment a shooter slaps a mag on a magnet that's in front of a holster that is well behind the hipbone (so would the mag on the magnet be). He runs and cuts a sharp turn and the mag rotates, kicking the butt of the mag away from the body. Shooting for no score now, then? There's still a portion of the mag attached to the magnet, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) That brings up an interesting concern. In the heat of the moment a shooter slaps a mag on a magnet that's in front of a holster that is well behind the hipbone (so would the mag on the magnet be). He runs and cuts a sharp turn and the mag rotates, kicking the butt of the mag away from the body. Shooting for no score now, then? There's still a portion of the mag attached to the magnet, right? Yeah, but the measurement method described in the rules section, and shown in the appendix seems to show the measurement to be taken perpendicularly out from the top of the belt, not necessarily from the inner belt to the nearest point of contact. (Maybe I'm just reading too much into the picture in E2 and applying it into 5.2.5. The devil's advocate in me wants to point out that 5.2.5 doesn't say it has to be from the top of the belt -- merely from the inner belt with no stipulation that it be from the top or the bottom. The side effect of that interpretation is that a gun can have it's grip canted out to 3.5" out near the top of the belt, but if measured from the bottom the belt the 2" minimum is satisfied.) (Nik, feel free to break this off into a fresh thread if you think it appropriate since we are drifting into minimum distances rather than just no mags on belt start.) Edited October 8, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 That brings up an interesting concern. In the heat of the moment a shooter slaps a mag on a magnet that's in front of a holster that is well behind the hipbone (so would the mag on the magnet be). He runs and cuts a sharp turn and the mag rotates, kicking the butt of the mag away from the body. Shooting for no score now, then? There's still a portion of the mag attached to the magnet, right? Yeah, but the measurement method described in the rules section, and shown in the appendix seems to show the measurement to be taken perpendicularly out from the top of the belt, not necessarily from the inner belt to the nearest point of contact. (Maybe I'm just reading too much into the picture in E2 and applying it into 5.2.5. The devil's advocate in me wants to point out that 5.2.5 doesn't say it has to be from the top of the belt -- merely from the inner belt with no stipulation that it be from the top or the bottom. The side effect of that interpretation is that a gun can have it's grip canted out to 3.5" out near the top of the belt, but if measured from the bottom the belt the 2" minimum is satisfied.) (Nik, feel free to break this off into a fresh thread if you think it appropriate since we are drifting into minimum distances rather than just no mags on belt start.) "from the innermost surface of the belt to the nearest surface of the handgun or reloading device." So you could build magpouches to hold your baseplates, with the mags splaying out like quills on a porcupine, and be legal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Rule 8.2.2 seems to require a reshoot. 8.2.2 The competitor assumes the start position as specified in the written stage briefing. Unless otherwise specified, the competitor must stand erect, facing downrange, with arms hanging naturally by the sides. A competitor who attempts or completes a course of fire where an incorrect start position was used must be required by a Range Official to reshoot the course of fire. I wish I would have thought about this at the time because I was one of the shooters who got a procedural for leaving a mag on my belt that I didn't use. Edited October 8, 2011 by joshs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 A stage with say three barrels, and competitors put all mags on top of barrels, the shooting positions for the stage are basically behind the barrels or moving barrel to barrel I feel this is a good stage, You are mostly shooting and just reloading from the barrels, this is a far cry from a stage that had the shooter run 20 yards to a barrel where all the mags are, have to stow a bunch, then run to shoot the cof. That became a running and mag stowing challenge, not a shooting challenge with some distractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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