Shoot fast or shoot accurate?

[ihatepickles]

I would rather be know as the guy who rarely misses, not the guy that ..."oh he's fast for a Newbie,...but he cant hit a Bull in the ass with a sack of wheat...."

There's rules around here regarding how we treat our cattle...

You're in a great area of the US to be learning this game. You get to shoot with many of the best shooters regularly. You seem really hooked hard, I'm sure you can adapt and excel in that environment.

[CocoBolo]

Expectation is the mother of all disappointment.

http://grayguns.com/competitive-mindset-and-affirmative-decisions/

http://grayguns.com/...-hitting-stuff/

[Sin-ster]

I've observed in my own performance and those of other middle-of-the-road shooters that there is a fairly common and consistent break down of where the most time is lost. Here's the rough order:

1) Movement through the CoF.

2) Stage planning.

3) Target Transitions

4) Mag Changes (bumped higher for Production, SS, L10 and especially Revolver-- where it often correlates with #1 more closely)

5) Shot-to-shot splits.

6) The drawstroke.

This of course ignores misses on steel, looking for holes, and several other bad habits that aren't worth mentioning.

Notice that the first two things are almost completely unrelated to the physical act of shooting. Being quick in and out of arrays will shave more time than anything you can learn to do with the gun. (Note that shooting at the earliest opportunity is an essential part of your movement!) Pulling a door, setting up on a port, getting aligned around a barricade for a shot-- the list goes on and on, and we apply all of these things to every Field Course we shoot! You can still shoot at a pace that allows you to get all of your hits, but pick up a ton of time by being a bit quicker on your feet.

Stage planning is a big one. And I'm not just talking about where to start, what order to shoot the arrays, where you plan your reloads, etc. I see people all of the time engaging targets within an array in an order that makes no sense. If you're going to be making a run to your left, why not get your momentum going that way as you fire the last shot? If you're swinging quickly around to your right, why not do the same? There are many compromises to be made in this regard, and I often find myself engaging targets in an order that no one else adopted. Figure out what works best for you and go with it!

The other items basically speak for themselves, although again-- there's a lot you can learn and practice at home, and it will pay dividends in the end. Mostly though, if you feel like you need to pick up speed but can't do so without maintaining your accuracy, work on #1 and (if necessary) #2.

Quick to your spot, quick to the shooting. Take the time you need to get the hits. Quick out of the spot on into the next, quick again to the shooting. Rinse and repeat.

Check out this video of Sevigny, and you'll see what I mean. Mute it and pretend like he's not even shooting, and see how fast he actually moves. Notice how he never really stands up at all, because he's always coiled and ready to explode to a new spot. Sometimes he almost breaks into a full sprint just to take a couple of steps.

[Ofishl1]

Expectation is the mother of all disappointment.

http://grayguns.com/competitive-mindset-and-affirmative-decisions/

http://grayguns.com/...-hitting-stuff/

Great articles,.. thanks...

[KyroWebs]

Sin-ster is spot on in most cases. One tip I'll add is to take video of yourself. I like to pair up with a buddy at a match and video ourselves. Then, find some videos of a GM or high level M and disect what they do better than you. I'd wager that you come up with a list similar to the one in Sin-ster's post. It can be tough to compare stage planning on videos, unless you have video of you and the GM/M on the same stage, but that will come with more experience. Taking a class from one of the top in our game can help tremendously with this too.

I will say that one of the biggest things that I see that separates a D shooter from a C shooter is planned reloads.(Prod/SS/Lim10 typically, occasionally Limited) Most D or U shooters at our club will run the gun dry before reloading, whereas C and higher shooters will plan their reloads. It sounds simple, but it's uncanny how many shooters will just plan the COF as the order they will shoot the targets without planning reloads! Again, this will come with experience and a good stage breakdown routine.

IMHO, the difference between D to C is stage planning and fundamentals

C to B is stage planning/fundamentals + accuracy

B to A is stage planning/fundamentals + accuracy + speed

A to M is stage planning/fundamentals + accuracy + speed + consistency and a solid dryfire and practice routine

M to GM is all the above + DEDICATION and much more that even I don't comprehend yet

(Keep in mind I am a mid/high B shooter, but this is what I have seen)

Edited October 6, 2011 by KyroWebs

[blaster113]

this last post is pretty accurate. once I started dry fire and doing some live fire practice it took me out of being stuck in high C into mid level B, the steady dryfire and live fire routine took me out of B into A. consistency is what wins, seen guys blaze through some stages and then crash and burn on others. shooting a steady consistent match is so important along with solid execution of the fundementals.

Edited October 5, 2011 by blaster113

[Ofishl1]

this last post is pretty accurate. once I started dry fire and doing some live fire practice it took me out of being stuck in high C into mid level B, the steady dryfire and live fire routine took me out of B into A. consistency is what wins, seen guys blaze through some stages and then crash and burn on others. shooting a steady consistent match is so important along with solid execution of the fundementals.

I practice live fire every week before matches, although no dryfire, did realize the importance and the proper procedures for same...I am starting this some now,..consistency is what is making me nuts right now...even in live fire at the range, I find speeding up the shots start to spread out of the A zone...I am not sure if it is from changing the recoil spring and if the muzzle is dipping on slide-load...there is definetly a "speed line" if I dont cross, I find the shots hit the zone, anything beyond that its luck to get them both to score, however does not seem to take much more speed for things to get crazy...so for now I have to maintain the accuracy, I think I can place well by being accurate and calling shots with moderate speed, .....all the comments here are excellent, thanks.

P.S. I will try not to keep giving weekly reports until something changes...thx guys...

[Tactica]

Just wanted to say thanks for the advice in this thread. I've read it all before in different forms and formats, but it's a thread that makes me think once again, yet differently... and I appreciate that.

My dry fire drills must be started again.

Cheers,

Rob

[Ofishl1]

this last post is pretty accurate. once I started dry fire and doing some live fire practice it took me out of being stuck in high C into mid level B, the steady dryfire and live fire routine took me out of B into A. consistency is what wins, seen guys blaze through some stages and then crash and burn on others. shooting a steady consistent match is so important along with solid execution of the fundementals.

Getting ready for a match in a couple hours, I just read something in Brian's book on page 80 that seems to detail exactly what I am experiencing...hit me like 10 gauge recoil........... out of respect for Brian's work and revenue sake, I am not quoting the rest of the paragraph which drives the statement home,... however this is the key...for me...right now..

Visual Patience

"See what you need to see no matter how long it takes".

[Chris iliff]

Yeah visual patience.

Steel plate at 20 yards. Partial paper target (half diagonal black) at 10 to 15 and finally a paper at 3 yards. Each target takes a different trigger pull and visual patience. Stand in box and upon buzzer draw and engage paper with 2 shots each and steel with one. Goal is all "A" hits. Mix up the order of engagement. Learn what respect to give each target. There is a lot you can do with this drill once

you master doing it straight up, close to far, order.

Great drill for what ails most of us. Visual

Patience/trigger control.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Chris iliff

[sidnal]

I shot D class for a couple of years. Found that I really had to work on accuracy to move up. After making C class I had to work on speed to move up. Hung out in B class for a couple of years ping-ponging between accuracy and speed. I needed to shoot faster AND still keep reasonable accuracy. Worked on the game...footwork, stage execution, watched the master class guys and learned... Moved up to A class this spring after my friends said I was shooting A for months. I didn't think so, but my perception of my ability hadn't caught up with my actual ability. Now I'm A I'm working on accuracty again. That said, transitions are still my weekest point so I need to work on speed.

Not to sound indecisive, but after 7 years of work my answer is BOTH accuracy and speed are most important. Never shoot what you can't see. Work on seeing more. Call every shot. Then push for speed. Learn more. Focus harder. This is a never ending cycle for me

Edited October 13, 2011 by sidnal

[rangebunny]

Speed comes with practice and experience. Shoot your comfort zone and let it come.

I practice a lot at the range, but have never done much in dry fire drills, I see it mentioned here enough that I know it must produce results and need to get into a routine of some sort, thanks.

I just dry fired two days in a row for 30 min and got my draw down from a 2.3 to a 0.7 on a 10 yard target in live fire. It is unbelievable what a difference it makes!

[Ofishl1]

Speed comes with practice and experience. Shoot your comfort zone and let it come.

I practice a lot at the range, but have never done much in dry fire drills, I see it mentioned here enough that I know it must produce results and need to get into a routine of some sort, thanks.

I just dry fired two days in a row for 30 min and got my draw down from a 2.3 to a 0.7 on a 10 yard target in live fire. It is unbelievable what a difference it makes!

Nice results, and agreed, I am finding that draw times can be impacted dramatically in dry fire, if you think about it, in my local matches, we only really draw for competition 4-5 times during a match that actually counts...

At the indoor range they do not allow it, so dedication to dry-fire is manadatory to excel...