GorillaTactical Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I shot a match a while back that had a stage where the RO activated a clay thrower....the stage description dictated that it was to be a "random" target....so at some point during the stage, the RO activated the target...it was not activated based on the shooter, but when the RO felt like pushing the button this particular match was before I had had much experience shooting so I never thought much of it....anyway, I recently read a similar stage description for a match which would utilize "random" targets and it caused me to recollect. My question is...does using targets which appear/and or are activated based on the RO's discretion give fair and equal opportunity to each shooter? If not, does that make it a bad stage? If yes, should more matches start utilizing this "random target" idea to increase difficulty? From everything I've learned/been told from more seasoned shooters who have played the game much longer, making a stage a "good stage", is all about taking out any random aspects. Edited August 22, 2011 by GorillaTactical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think the fair way to do random targets are by actions done just before the shooter begins the stage; i.e. numbers painted on targets and rolling a dice determines the no shoot. randomly selecting a colored ball out of a bag = color of shoot or no shoots that kind of thing. I think the target being activated randomly could be ok if the shooter knew just before the stage started it would happen at 5, 10, or 15 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie j Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If it was activated by a human RO I would consider it not random and not a fair and equitable contest. Sounds like fun though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I would put it on a fixed delay after something the shooter does, like shoot a popper or open a door. We had a stage like this at the IDPA New England Regional this weekend. You pulled a dummy down in a car. 7.5 seconds after you moved the dummy, a charging target activated. It made for a really interesting stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I would prefer to not have a r.o. activated "random" target. All the r.o. would have to do to throw you off would be to wait until you went for a reload or turn your head to check a different target or whatever for you to get the short end of the stick. Take the r.o. activation out of it. Either a timer activation or you the shooter do something to activate the target. When you attach a person to the situation, it is no longer random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 An RO pushing a button isnt random, and no it isnt fair nor allowed under sanctioned sports. In most games its required by rule for every shooter to get the same stage, and if it isnt required by rule it should be, The IDPA match jar described isnt random, and every shooter got the same thing. I have seen the pick a card then only shoot targets with the same suit kinda thing in USPSA matches, I dont think they should be allowed either as everyone isnt shooting the same targets. No matter how close they still arnt the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaTactical Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I think the fair way to do random targets are by actions done just before the shooter begins the stage; i.e. numbers painted on targets and rolling a dice determines the no shoot. randomly selecting a colored ball out of a bag = color of shoot or no shoots that kind of thing. Agreed. This adds complexity to the stage, but doesn't require an outside source to determine when targets will appear...even so, I still don't like the idea of a random stage where you aren't shooting the same stage as everyone else I would prefer to not have a r.o. activated "random" target. All the r.o. would have to do to throw you off would be to wait until you went for a reload or turn your head to check a different target or whatever for you to get the short end of the stick. EXACTLY my thoughts Edited August 23, 2011 by GorillaTactical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biga9999 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Agree that the human factor could make it unfair. I think that most RO's out there would not try to screw you (throwing while relaoding) but the possibility is there. I would not mind much at a local level but I would not want to see this at a larger match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 it's still not equitable even if the RO doesn't try to hose you because if they let the target go sooner for one person than the other, that's more time that one of them doesn't have to dork around looking for the 'random' target, Random anything sucks (dice, cards, washers) because at the end of the day, it's about the stage designer trying to trick the shooter into screwing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 While I don't think any random targets as presented sound that great...and no, I don't have a good one in mind, I think the idea of random targets is NOT to screw up the shooter, but to force the shooter to react and think on their feet instead of planning every step of a stage. Just my 2 cents! Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 While I don't think any random targets as presented sound that great...and no, I don't have a good one in mind, I think the idea of random targets is NOT to screw up the shooter, but to force the shooter to react and think on their feet instead of planning every step of a stage. Just my 2 cents! Denise It's funny because 'think on your feet' is the justification every 'screw up the shooter' stage uses, but they really don't. The two-color ones just test to see if the shooter can create two plans and pick the right one (and since they're symmetrical due to the need to be equal, it's not that hard). I wish we still had to do stage descriptions as those would be a hoot... "You're walking down the street and notice a bunch of guys in gang colors coming towards you. You forgot what side you're on, so you quickly whip the bandanna off your head to check" The random-target ones (all the competitive equity issues aside) only test your ability to see the random thing, and take a detour from your stage plan-- usually less of a detour than any old magazine jam or other mis-timed swinger during a regular COF since you can plan for it as well. The only way to really test thinking on your feet in a competition would be a truly surprise stage. But we all know how well those work in real life. If we really wanted to find the best thinker-on-their-feet (versus best shooter), we'd make the shooter solve higher math problems; differential equations or some such, during the COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 itss supposed to be a shooting match not a brainfart match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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