Blood Lead Levels & Revolvers

[Tom E]

From the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine. Half life of lead in blood vs bone: http://research.mssm.edu/xrf/why.html

[lugnut]

Ack. I had a massive response typed and it disappeared.

I had lead poisoning from shooting several matches in a short period of time at a major manufacturer's indoor ranges. It seems that someone had closed the vents due to inclement weather for the first time in about 70 years (according to sources at the plant) and never re-opened them. My levels three weeks after the match were in the 240 range...doc was NOT happy.

Holy crap!!! Was that a typo???? 240??? That's 3 times what is considered as lead poisoning! My levels were at 56 the first time I tested. It dropped rather quickly on it's own- although I did take some supplemental vitamins. It's been under 20 for a while and the predominant factor IMO was almost eliminating indoor shooting. The other things- like showering after a day at the range, taking shoes off when getting home, etc are all good but I'm convinced the MAJORITY of lead we get from shooting is from breathing it. At 56 I was getting MAJOR, MAJOR headaches. So although you may not die..elevated lead levels have MANY possible side effects so take it seriously.

I do also believe that each of us absorbs lead in different ways.... some folks exposed the the exact same conditions can show different lead levels.

To the OP- keep doing what you are doing and the levels should drop. If not that is really strange.

[West Texas Granny]

I use the dryer sheets in the tumbling media and it does capture a lot of residue. All brass not cleaned is kept in sealed plastic bags, sealed containers or both. Tumbling is done outside.

[professor]

Just to keep everybody on common ground, the standard units for serum lead are micrograms per deciliter of blood, for which a nominal reference range is 0.0 to 9.9 MCG/DL.

I didn't start shooting until the year 2000, and between 2000 and 2004 about half of my shooting was indoor ranges. One well-ventilated, the other not. I got tested around 2004 and showed elevated levels [though I can't find that paperwork now]. So I stopped using indoor ranges.

Last check was in 2008, when I tested at 8.2 MCG/DL, an acceptable level. And I'm scheduled for another check in August. Since I was reloading commercially cast lead bullets all those years, and the levels went down after leaving the indoor ranges, I suspect that the poorly ventilated indoor range was the primary source of it getting into my system as a shooter.

I do use moly-coated bullets now, and I wear a nitrile glove on my left hand to set the bullets on the shells as I reload on a Dillon XL650. It'll be interesting to see what the upcoming test shows.

FYI, the high levels seen in kids are almost always due to ingestion of paint chips from deteriorating surfaces in homes painted with lead-based paint before that was banned. So you can absorb lead from your gut in sufficient quantities to cause a problem. For shooters, breathing the indoor air at a range is probably the most likely cause. Good hygiene during reloading is also a factor in keeping levels down, because you don't want to be putting things in your mouth that have lead dust on them. People who do their own lead bullet casting would also be at risk because of inhaling lead fumes [among other crap from the melting process]. I'm staying away from that.

The level of 240, if on the same scale as the reference range of 0.0 to 9.9 MCG/DL, would potentially be life-threatening, which aggressive chelation to remove the lead a necessity, not an option.

Just my 0.02

Edited July 31, 2011 by professor

[Mooney]

Nope, no typo. I actually had just talked to my doc and had my levels done a couple weeks ago. I was really, completely, totally fragged after those matches. One of the reasons I WENT to the doc was that I thought I may have a real bad case. Couldn't think (worse than usual), speak, eat, sleep, smile, anything! Heck, I even went out and shot a bottom feeder for a little while (shoulda been a sign right there...).

I'm kinda "fuzzy", so I'm sure that the wicking effect had some part in the levels, but the range was so bad it was foggy...so I'm sure the inhalation factor was the worst.

In all seriousness though, L.P. sucked, and the Massachusetts Dept. of Public Health was quite curious as to why my numbers were so high. They didn't appreciate the response of: "I know what it was, and have taken steps to prevent it from happening again...". Any of the times I was asked.

[Bones]

"Do not smoke while shooting." That's a good one - definitely not healthy behavior.

Craig

Edited August 2, 2011 by Bones

[Bones]

.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Bones

[rehn]

Levels do come down over time if you remove the big exposure risks. At one point my level was in the 40s, but cutting way, way back on indoor range time, cutting down on shooting cast lead bullets, and taking all the precautions mentioned in other posts, got my number back down into the low 10s, where it's been for many years.

[professor]

Mooney,

Good to know that you're OK, and that even super-high levels are reversible, IF you get the medical attention you need.

Of course, developmental problems can result when kids are exposed.

[John Z Sr]

ok, folks - I'm in a pickle and hoping you can help: In your opinion...nope...scratch that...in your experience, are wheelgunners at increased risk of developing high blood lead levels?

Here's the background: During last year's physical, I happened to mention to my Doc I shoot and reload, so for funzies, he had a blood lead test run. It came back high. Not screaming high, but higher than normal, and high enough to warrant looking for a reduction.

So, right away, I changed a number of things, some of which may seem extreme:

- shoot outdoors only

- clean & tumble brass outdoors

- wear nitrile gloves when reloading &/or cleaning my gun

- wipe my hands down with D-lead wipes between stages

- shower & shampoo as soon as I get home

- Remove & wash any "shooting" clothes as soon as I get home

6 months later, I retest, and not only did the levels not drop, they went up. At this point, Santa brought me an ultrasonic cleaner, and I've stopped using media altogether, on top of what I've been doing (btw, I dig ultrasonically-cleaned brass). Another 6 months goes by, and I recently re-tested - another increase.

So, I'm trying to ID the source of the problem, but I can't help but wonder how much is related to the use of a revolver. I mean, compared to a semi-auto, it - and the hands - get pretty filthy. And the gas escaping from the cylinder gap - is it possible that's a high-pressure source of lead compounds that's particularly bad?

Have any of you had their blood lead levels tested? Normal? High? If high, what, if anything, cleared it up? Plated bullets? Shooting a semi-auto? Both?

Any input would be great.

Tom

Stop chewing on windowsills in old houses, duh

[John Z Sr]

Sorry Tom, you know me. I collect lead from indoor ranges, I smelt it outdoors, cast it into bullets outdoors, reload it indoors, and then shoot it indoors/outdoors. I am afraid to get my levels checked, but know I should. Many have said I'm brain damaged BEFORE all the lead but who knows!! Great point, and I will get the levels checked one of these days. I do wash my hands with industrial hand cleaner about every 10 minutes while I'm casting or loading.

[Tom E]

had a blood lead test run. It came back high. Not screaming high, but higher than normal, and high enough to warrant looking for a reduction.

Tom

So what's your idea of "high enough to warrant looking for a reduction"? How high?

[Nik Habicht]

I wrote an articel on this with the assistance of a Doctor several years ago. Feel free to pass it on to your clubs if you want.

http://dfuse.us/lead.html

OK, I don't want to be offensive here, but lead poisoning from carrying .22 cartridges around in your front pocket? Losing a left testicle because of lead that entered through the genitals? Lead entering through "anal tissues"?

That's just crazy talk.

Anal tissue absorption? Ever hear of suppositories? It's a pretty good site for absorption -- considering that it's the tail end of the tube through which you absorb most of your nutrients and fluids.....

[Dogged]

Lead poisoning isn't just for shooters anymore! I have a friend who shoots and reloads, who brought his cat into my clinc with gastroenteritis and severe neruological signs including seizures(I'm a veterinarian, Dogged, get it?). After taking a history and finding out that the cat liked to lie down on bullet fragments collected from a bullet trap, I ran a lead blood levels which were off the chart. We bathed the cat getting off a tremendous amount of lead "dust" and started the cat on injections to chelate the lead out of the blood. The cat did well and we both got more careful with realoding. This was several years ago and I don't have the lead levels on record that far back but it was a very interesting case. Bottom line, keep the cat away from the reloading bench, also don't bathe like a cat does, it's inappropriate and dangerous.

[birdzman]

Very interesting information and I will get my levels checked very soon, I spend a lot of time sorting brass from an indoor range and there is plenty of lead mixed in as well as unburned powder. I do wear fabric gloves with the rubberized coat in on the palm side.

[Carmoney]

I wrote an articel on this with the assistance of a Doctor several years ago. Feel free to pass it on to your clubs if you want.

http://dfuse.us/lead.html

OK, I don't want to be offensive here, but lead poisoning from carrying .22 cartridges around in your front pocket? Losing a left testicle because of lead that entered through the genitals? Lead entering through "anal tissues"?

That's just crazy talk.

Anal tissue absorption? Ever hear of suppositories? It's a pretty good site for absorption -- considering that it's the tail end of the tube through which you absorb most of your nutrients and fluids.....

Well, you sure don't take suppository medications by holding them against your anus.

So much for the "Voice of Reason."

[diehli]

Many people confuse the anus and the rectum. Either way, you have to go through one to get to the other.

[sargenv]

I have been shooting a revolver competitively for about 8 years... Always shooting either moly coated lead or regular hard cast lead (that I now cast). For the last several years, my lead level was at 4.. this year, I tested 5.1. I shoot only outdoors, do not eat after handling lead (ammo or otherwise) and wash my hands after a range session. I cast in an enclosed area that has positive ventilation outdoors.. As long as you follow the rules about not eating/smoking without washing your hands, you would likely be fine.

[MrBorland]

As long as you follow the rules about not eating/smoking without washing your hands, you would likely be fine.

Yes, you'll likely be fine, but it's no guarantee. A test is definitive.

FWIW, as I wrote in the OP, I exercised reasonable precautions as well as anyone. And I don't cast bullets, yet I tested in the mid-20s last year. Like a getting a high cholesterol reading, it was no need to panic, but it was surprising, and I simply tried to eliminate the source of the exposure. Six months later, I tested in the high 20s, and I stepped up my diligence. Another 6 months, and it's now 34. I've incorporated some additional changes into my routine, and they seem automatic now, and I certainly wouldn't say I'm mentally consumed by it, or live in fear of the boogeyman.

The points I'm making are that 1) "normal precautions" are to be encouraged, of course, but I suspect some of us handle lead differently, so they say absolutely nothing about youractual blood lead levels. A test will. Secondly, don't be afraid of the boogeyman, but also make sure there's no boogeyman to be afraid of. Even then, it's not a boogeyman, but simply a matter of eliminating the source.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks.

Tom

[Nathan Detroit]

I would like to add one comment. Don't forget to wash the area around your mouth. Breathing in an environment that is filled with lead dust will drag the contaminated air right across your upper lip. Remember when you were a kid and got the old "milk mustache"? That is the area that comes into contact with anything you drink from a cup or glass. Any lead contamination on your upper lip gets washed right into your stomach. The problem is worse if you have a mustache or beard. The hair acts as a great filter of the incoming air due to its large surface area.

Also, try not to lick your lips while shooting for the same reason. A good test to see how much you contamination might be pulling over your upper lip is to blow your nose. If it coems out dark, then you can be pretty sure that the area over your upper lip is contaminated.

If you must drink before you get to wash your face, use a straw.

[UW Mitch]

Are you shooting and/or casing lead bullets? Or only using FMJ's or completely plated?

~Mitch

[lugnut]

As long as you follow the rules about not eating/smoking without washing your hands, you would likely be fine.

Yes, you'll likely be fine, but it's no guarantee. A test is definitive.

FWIW, as I wrote in the OP, I exercised reasonable precautions as well as anyone. And I don't cast bullets, yet I tested in the mid-20s last year. Like a getting a high cholesterol reading, it was no need to panic, but it was surprising, and I simply tried to eliminate the source of the exposure. Six months later, I tested in the high 20s, and I stepped up my diligence. Another 6 months, and it's now 34. I've incorporated some additional changes into my routine, and they seem automatic now, and I certainly wouldn't say I'm mentally consumed by it, or live in fear of the boogeyman.

The points I'm making are that 1) "normal precautions" are to be encouraged, of course, but I suspect some of us handle lead differently, so they say absolutely nothing about youractual blood lead levels. A test will. Secondly, don't be afraid of the boogeyman, but also make sure there's no boogeyman to be afraid of. Even then, it's not a boogeyman, but simply a matter of eliminating the source.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks.

Tom

Tom I saw this post again as I recently tested for my lead levels AND have been doing some shooting with my 625! I've read everything I can find on this topic. Ironically, I was very high a couple years ago and took all the steps mentioned in this thread and in others. Ultimately my BLLs dropped from a high of 56 to 16 (one year ago) and 14(six months ago).... this week my results came back at 20. Not crazy high but II've done less shooting this winter than I ever have recently!! I will say that I haven't been taking some supplements lately- vitamins and heavy metal detox from Nature's Sunshine... but I thought that without shooting much it wasn't' necessary. I just don't get it.

I definitely think that some people's chemistry has a large effect on how much we absorb... I'm sure this is also related to diet. Unfortunately I don't think there is a ton of information on what diets are best and it's not easy to "test" this as our first response to high BLLs is to reduce exposure in as many ways as we can. I'll admit I don't use nitrile gloves when reloading and cleaning my guns but I do wash all the time with Dlead products. I think I'll step up the use of gloves going forward.

I don't think it has anything to do with revos though... but they do get dirty like crazy.. who knows.