rhgunguy Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I got a friend into shooting and she wants to get her first gun. She has shot a G35, G19, G22 gen 4, Witness Match .40 and my Shadow Custom. Take a guess which one she likes best . Then I told her just how expensive her tastes were. She still needs to shoot my 75b. She loves the trigger, the weight, the mag release and the front site of the Shadow. Is there anything out there that can come close for a lot less? I have been looking at surplus pre-b 75s and I think I can get close for about $5-600 with parts and work. She is actually really good at this game and I don't want to see her discouraged because of money. Thanks in advance for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorDanO Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 What's her budget? The Stock Shadow's have excellent triggers out of the box, or she could get a standard SP01. She would probably be happier with a SP01 than a 75 due to the difference in weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I got a friend into shooting and she wants to get her first gun. She has shot a G35, G19, G22 gen 4, Witness Match .40 and my Shadow Custom. Take a guess which one she likes best . Then I told her just how expensive her tastes were. She still needs to shoot my 75b. She loves the trigger, the weight, the mag release and the front site of the Shadow. Is there anything out there that can come close for a lot less? I have been looking at surplus pre-b 75s and I think I can get close for about $5-600 with parts and work. She is actually really good at this game and I don't want to see her discouraged because of money. Thanks in advance for the help! That is exactly why we have the classifieds. I got my custom Shadow with 5 mags and a holster here on Benos for $800 shipped. Its not for sale, my daughter and wife would be real mad if I sold it. Ok shoot what you got till you can find what you want at a price you can handle. Jordano is spot on with the regular shadow or the SP01, a competition hammer and a 15# main spring, flat mag brake, and the FO front sight and you are in business, I don't think the thicker barrel makes much difference, but it has deeper throat as well. The competition hammer takes a little work since you have to cut the safety bar. Good deals come to those that have the patience to wait for them and pounce on them when they find them. In the mean time you save your money. Edited May 31, 2011 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Edited May 31, 2011 by CeeZer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Seriously - check this one out http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-classifieds-details.php?item=18294 For what is in the deal, its a steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Seriously - check this one out http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-classifieds-details.php?item=18294 For what is in the deal, its a steal. For $1100? A steal? Even here in Canada one can get a brand new factory Shadow for $740 + tax. CZ75 Shadow (not SP-01 Shadow) should be USPSA approved end of this month. Great gun for what it is, and already approved for IDPA. Angus reported the gun to be approved for IPSC back in March but it seems not to be on the IPSC Prod. approved list at the moment. I'm aware of very heated politics Vince is playing as well. I can tune a Shadow to a very nice competitive gun for another $60-80 depending on what the person wants to do, including minor parts. There are 3 parts I usually replace; and a few I tune in full compliance with Rule Book. Comp hammer would be another $65 thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I agree with the sentiment of going with a standard Shadow or the 75 Shadow (which will be approved any time now) are the most economical ways into Shadow-land... A cheaper option than both of those is getting an 85 Combat and then installing a CZC comp hammer, assuming she doesn't mind the "old-style" ducktail frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 3.5 lb DA on that Shadow Custom...wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Good idea except that the resulting gun wouldn't be legal for Production division, if that's a concern at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pevadijk Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I shoot a stainless 75B with a competition hamer and a 15 pound hammer spring and the trigger is just as smooth as a Shadow. Get a used 75B, put CZcustom competition sights on it and a competition hammer (with lighter hammer spring) and you have a fairly cheap and very competitive gun. Edited May 31, 2011 by pevadijk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Seriously - check this one out http://www.uspsa.org....php?item=18294 For what is in the deal, its a steal. For $1100? A steal? Even here in Canada one can get a brand new factory Shadow for $740 + tax. CZ75 Shadow (not SP-01 Shadow) should be USPSA approved end of this month. Great gun for what it is, and already approved for IDPA. Angus reported the gun to be approved for IPSC back in March but it seems not to be on the IPSC Prod. approved list at the moment. I'm aware of very heated politics Vince is playing as well. I can tune a Shadow to a very nice competitive gun for another $60-80 depending on what the person wants to do, including minor parts. There are 3 parts I usually replace; and a few I tune in full compliance with Rule Book. Comp hammer would be another $65 thou. Obviously you didn't read the add just the price. You make your own holster, mag pouches, and mags as well I assume. The gun started life as a $1200 custom and had more work done plus the accesories, my guess is the guy has close to $1800 to $2k in the rig, and its just broke in good. You can weld up an extra wide safety, and the left side mag release and all that for only $60.00, and making those aluminum grips will take some time. By the time you buy all the accesories and parts add that to your $740 +tax gun you are over $1100, more like $1150 by conservative estimate. My degree is in Accounting and another in Math & Computer Science, make the guy an offer he might go for it. I'm trying real hard not to buy it myself, but I'm weak. Edited May 31, 2011 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayd Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) Used SP01 Cajun Gunworks drop in hammer and sear http://www.czfirearm...?topic=38859.15 Springs and sights and thin grips as the budget allows Edited May 31, 2011 by jayd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Good idea except that the resulting gun wouldn't be legal for Production division, if that's a concern at all. CZ75 Shadow is to be approved for Prod Div within days now. And resulting gun would be just it - CZ75 Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Seriously - check this one out http://www.uspsa.org....php?item=18294 For what is in the deal, its a steal. For $1100? A steal? Even here in Canada one can get a brand new factory Shadow for $740 + tax. CZ75 Shadow (not SP-01 Shadow) should be USPSA approved end of this month. Great gun for what it is, and already approved for IDPA. Angus reported the gun to be approved for IPSC back in March but it seems not to be on the IPSC Prod. approved list at the moment. I'm aware of very heated politics Vince is playing as well. I can tune a Shadow to a very nice competitive gun for another $60-80 depending on what the person wants to do, including minor parts. There are 3 parts I usually replace; and a few I tune in full compliance with Rule Book. Comp hammer would be another $65 thou. Obviously you didn't read the add just the price. You make your own holster, mag pouches, and mags as well I assume. The gun started life as a $1200 custom and had more work done plus the accesories, my guess is the guy has close to $1800 to $2k in the rig, and its just broke in good. You can weld up an extra wide safety, and the left side mag release and all that for only $60.00, and making those aluminum grips will take some time. By the time you buy all the accesories and parts add that to your $740 +tax gun you are over $1100, more like $1150 by conservative estimate. My degree is in Accounting and another in Math & Computer Science, make the guy an offer he might go for it. I'm trying real hard not to buy it myself, but I'm weak. No, I don't make my own holsters or mag pouches, but I see no reason to buy $1100 gun if I can make a factory $800 gun as good of a shooter for under $30 extra myself. Extra wide safety, or safety at all is absolutely unnecessary on Shadow as one never uses the safety in comp shooting in Prod Div - you always start in DA mode and never engage or dis-engage safety. I don't use alum grip panels or SS guide rod either. I still have factory hammer on it as well. The only changes I made were the springs, grip tape, green FO insert and some work on it. Those 18rds mags were on sale at cz-usa for $90/3pcs and I see no need to install extensions on them as USPSA Prod Div allows only 10rds in the mag and IPSC is 15rds. Left side mag release? It is on left side from factory, looks as he had it moved to right side.. As far as the ad goes - the guy claims the gun can be used in IPSC Prod Div -- I guess NOT since it had slide milled for new sights! USPSA rules are different than IPSC, not that I like IPSC rules, but you have to comply with the rules, right? Why would someone want to run it in L or L10 Div? Did he load and shoot ammo with PF170 or so thru it? Edited June 1, 2011 by CeeZer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I shoot a stainless 75B with a competition hamer and a 15 pound hammer spring and the trigger is just as smooth as a Shadow. Get a used 75B, put CZcustom competition sights on it and a competition hammer (with lighter hammer spring) and you have a fairly cheap and very competitive gun. This is a good option; all the positives of the 75 Shadow except for the fact that it has a firing pin block, and the Stainless models have the higher beavertail if the older style frame doesn't feel right. While I do prefer the guns without the firing pin blocks in place, a $300+ savings might be more helpful to someone starting out and looking to save some money. In reality while the Shadow's triggers are indeed a bit nicer, even with the firing blocks the B-model gun's still have a reset on par with a Glock and won't really hold one back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 If you can find a 75SA frame for cheap some place... then fitting it with DA trigger and hammer, non-B sear, and getting complete Shadow upper from Angus - would make it a CZ75 Shadow - one nice gun and a mean deadly shooter Good idea except that the resulting gun wouldn't be legal for Production division, if that's a concern at all. CZ75 Shadow is to be approved for Prod Div within days now. And resulting gun would be just it - CZ75 Shadow. Sorry. The 75SA frame was never approved for Production, and any frame ever sold as a 75SA couldn't be used in Production no matter what slide or what trigger you put on it. Even though it's the same frame as what is on the 75 Shadow (which will be approved shortly) it wouldn't be legal for production. The same thing happens when you put a Glock 34 slide on a Glock 17 frame. The frames are identical, but Glock never sold a 17 with a 34 slide, so it's not legal. Likewise you can't put a 17 slide on a 22 frame, 34 slide on a 35 frame, and so on and so forth. It's a dumb rule in my opinion, but the rule is the rule. There is a big discussion of it over in the USPSA Rules subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) 85C, then stone the hammer and cut a coil off the main spring and "tweak" the trigger return spring. $525ish shipped from angus. My 85C is a great shooter. About a 3.3lb trigger, no creep after the DA take up on the DA/SA action. I also turned the Magazine release around backward to make mag drops easier with my small-man hands. I don't loose my stronghand grip this way. Anyone can stone a trigger with a little patience. The ambi option makes this the best choice IMO for a small handed shooter. Edited June 1, 2011 by stringcheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) JMHO, but stoning a stock CZ hammer is more of a short-term solution, and I think it's well worth the small cost to just change out the hammer to a CZC comp hammer... CZ stuff isn't tool-steel like good 1911 stuff, it's just surface-hardened so any meaningful amount of stoning or filing also turns it soft, meaning any trigger-job done that way isn't going to stay for very long and change over time as it erodes. To really eliminate creep from a CZ's trigger it needs the angles changed (which requires re-cutting the hammer-hooks) to remove any hammer-camming and also raising the sear-bed as is the case with the Shadow and competition hammers. Also, FWIW, "tweaking" a CZ trigger-return-spring isn't for everybody, as it also softens the trigger-reset recovery, as a former Glock shooter one of the things that brought me to the CZ's was the ability to simultaneously have the crisp break of a nice 1911's trigger combined with a fairly authoritative and "snappy" trigger-reset not too far from a Glock's. To me, the weight the TRS adds to the overall pull is meaningless and nearly unnoticable as it's really just take-up travel and has nothing to do with breaking the sear, tweaking the TRS to lower the weight of the take-up slack at the expense of a crisp reset has never seemed like a good trade-off IMO, so I prefer my TRS's remain unaltered. Just my $0.02. Edited June 1, 2011 by ck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have a question about all the legality stuff. Say I have a CZ 75B SA frame, took all the guts out and changed to a DA trigger the works, and placed a Shadow slide. Other than the serial number not matching (to the slide and barrel), how can 1 say it was a CZ 75B SA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 JMHO, but stoning a stock CZ hammer is more of a short-term solution, and I think it's well worth the small cost to just change out the hammer to a CZC comp hammer... CZ stuff isn't tool-steel like good 1911 stuff, it's just surface-hardened so any meaningful amount of stoning or filing also turns it soft, meaning any trigger-job done that way isn't going to stay for very long and change over time as it erodes. To really eliminate creep from a CZ's trigger it needs the angles changed (which requires re-cutting the hammer-hooks) to remove any hammer-camming and also raising the sear-bed as is the case with the Shadow and competition hammers. Also, FWIW, "tweaking" a CZ trigger-return-spring isn't for everybody, as it also softens the trigger-reset recovery, as a former Glock shooter one of the things that brought me to the CZ's was the ability to simultaneously have the crisp break of a nice 1911's trigger combined with a fairly authoritative and "snappy" trigger-reset not too far from a Glock's. To me, the weight the TRS adds to the overall pull is meaningless and nearly unnoticable as it's really just take-up travel and has nothing to do with breaking the sear, tweaking the TRS to lower the weight of the take-up slack at the expense of a crisp reset has never seemed like a good trade-off IMO, so I prefer my TRS's remain unaltered. Just my $0.02. I found the steel quality to be good. Many people tweak the TRS, you do need to excercise common sense though. If you had problems with your surface steel going to butter I suggest investing in some cyanide. Here: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27119/Product/SURFACE_HARDENING_COMPOUND It works really well and is much cheaper than a $100 hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have a question about all the legality stuff. Say I have a CZ 75B SA frame, took all the guts out and changed to a DA trigger the works, and placed a Shadow slide. Other than the serial number not matching (to the slide and barrel), how can 1 say it was a CZ 75B SA? Practically speaking, only you would know. This is where integrity comes in. Like I said, I think it's a dumb rule, and I've emailed my area director about it. I suggest everyone else do the same. But for now, the rule is the rule. There is a huge thread about this on the rules subforum. Check it out when you want to get frustrated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have a question about all the legality stuff. Say I have a CZ 75B SA frame, took all the guts out and changed to a DA trigger the works, and placed a Shadow slide. Other than the serial number not matching (to the slide and barrel), how can 1 say it was a CZ 75B SA? Practically speaking, only you would know. This is where integrity comes in. Like I said, I think it's a dumb rule, and I've emailed my area director about it. I suggest everyone else do the same. But for now, the rule is the rule. There is a huge thread about this on the rules subforum. Check it out when you want to get frustrated... heehehee.. Its okay. I've had enough frustrations for June already and its only the 1st. You are right, rule is a rule and sometimes, they are just dumb and non-sense. moving on to the topic.. FWIW, have her start with whatever is available. She is just starting you said so those little things that we complain about, to her its more on the fundamentals. There will always be a market for the 75b should she decide for the shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have the shadow custom with the 13lb hammer spring. I really like this trigger but I would like a more solid reset. Mine seems kind of squishy. I know angus runs a higher hammer spring due to this but I don't know which one. Does anyone else notice this? I have thought about going to a 15lb but I do not want a heavier trigger pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorDanO Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have the shadow custom with the 13lb hammer spring. I really like this trigger but I would like a more solid reset. Mine seems kind of squishy. I know angus runs a higher hammer spring due to this but I don't know which one. Does anyone else notice this? I have thought about going to a 15lb but I do not want a heavier trigger pull. FYI it's the trigger return spring not the hammer spring that will affect the feel of the reset. Some people tweak the trigger return spring for a lighter trigger pull, but you'll have the weak return. I'm pretty sure Angus runs a 13# hammer spring and a stock trigger return spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Angus also sells an "improved" TRS. I tweaked mine to be light but have plenty of return travel and have had zero problems after only about 2500 rounds. Until recently i was always an accuracy shooter and considered a trigger that slapped my finger forward a poor trait for accuracy. I also was against overtravel when shooting for X's. Edited June 2, 2011 by stringcheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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