Glock NZ Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Hi Guys This is my first post on the revolver forum, I searched but didnt find what I am looking for. The question is this would installing a cylinder and slide extended firing pin in my 625/8 help me in achieving a lighter trigger pull. To date my 625 has a Miculek main and rebound spring an the hammer has been bobbed, I have polished all the contact and bearing surfaces (not removed metal just polished) an I am wondering what more I can do. I am using Federal primers and loading my own load of RP Brass, 230gr RN Frontier copperwashed projectile & 5.3gr VV N320 Any help would be appreciated Aaron T New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1981 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 In my experience definitely an extended firing pin helps lighten the trigger as much and even helps eliminate misfires as the pin moves forward by 0.8 mm. compared to 'the original good buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 A couple years ago I pretty adamantly argued against the use of extended firing pins. In fact, if you run a search on this topic, I am sure you can still find plenty of that discussion in the archives. I have softened my viewpoint somewhat. The main reason for my partial change of heart on the aftermarket pins is that the current factory firing pins (the California drop-test compliant version) are so dang awful. The original .495" round-tip factory Ti pins worked great--even in lightened competition actions--but the California pins tend to causes all kinds of misfires if the action isn't full factory strength. I still have a small quantity of "good" factory pins in my inventory, but when they are gone I will be switching to either the C&S pin or the Randy Lee pin. I have also been informed by a reliable source that C&S has made some manufacturing changes that have improved the quality of its extended pin. We had too many reports of breakage before, and I personally experienced broken C&S pins in several of my own guns several years ago. However, I am trying to keep an open mind and give the product a second chance. I do use them on 617s now, but recommend that 617 owners avoid dry-firing in order to prevent the possibility of pin breakage, and more importantly to avoid dinging up the chamber edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock NZ Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Thanks guys Is it OK to dryfire the C&S extended firing pin? Aaron T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 would installing a cylinder and slide extended firing pin in my 625/8 help me in achieving a lighter trigger pull. I think the best answer is "maybe". Measure the firing pin in the gun. The "good" S&W pins are .495". The "short" ones are .485". If you have a .495" pin a longer one will probably make no difference. FWIW I added a S&W firng pin to an order to see what I'd rcv. I got a "good" .495 pin. Maybe they've seen the light and gone back to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock NZ Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 would installing a cylinder and slide extended firing pin in my 625/8 help me in achieving a lighter trigger pull. I think the best answer is "maybe". Measure the firing pin in the gun. The "good" S&W pins are .495". The "short" ones are .485". If you have a .495" pin a longer one will probably make no difference. FWIW I added a S&W firng pin to an order to see what I'd rcv. I got a "good" .495 pin. Maybe they've seen the light and gone back to them? My firing pin is an "evil" .486 Anything to watch with the longer S&C pins? Thanks Aaron T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) My firing pin is an "evil" .486 Anything to watch with the longer S&C pins? Thanks Aaron T I would get an Apex Tactical firing pin. https://apextactical.com/store/product-list.php?pg1-cid4.html Or take a chance on a new S&W pin. Like I said, I ordered one recently just to see what they were currently sending out and got a .495. They work great and have the advantage of being titanium. My experience with the C&S pins is from years ago and, like Mike's, was BAD. In fairness they may be different now. They were .515-.520 and seemed to be that long only to allow firing loose rds in your 625 and they broke and they wadded up the firing pin spring. Edited May 8, 2011 by Tom E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSWEAR Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 and they wadded up the firing pin spring. Unless I'm mistaken the C&S extra long firing will damage the firing pin return spring if dry fired without snap caps. The Apex and S&W firing pins will againstgaint the retaining pin butreliefeleif slot in the C&S is long enough it bottoms out against the spring. I'm a revo noob so take what I say with a grain of salt! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Thanks guys Is it OK to dry fire the C&S extended firing pin? Aaron T Aaron Do not dry fire the C&S pin without snap caps. Those instructions are on the package. The factory pins forward travel is stopped by the cross pin that retains the firing pin. The C&S pins forward travel is not limited by the retaining pin. Without snap caps the C&S pin will only stop it's forward movement when it collapses the firing pin spring and then slams into the back of the firing pin bushing. You will eventually cause damage to the pin, spring or will beat the pin bushing loose from the recoil shield. With snap caps or normal firing they are fine. The older pins were bad but I have found no fault with the new C&S pins other than not being able to dry fire them without snap caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock NZ Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 Aaron Do not dry fire the C&S pin without snap caps. Those instructions are on the package. The factory pins forward travel is stopped by the cross pin that retains the firing pin. The C&S pins forward travel is not limited by the retaining pin. Without snap caps the C&S pin will only stop it's forward movement when it collapses the firing pin spring and then slams into the back of the firing pin bushing. You will eventually cause damage to the pin, spring or will beat the pin bushing loose from the recoil shield. With snap caps or normal firing they are fine. The older pins were bad but I have found no fault with the new C&S pins other than not being able to dry fire them without snap caps. Thanks for the heads up. I'll put the standard one back in until I can source an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Thanks guys Is it OK to dry fire the C&S extended firing pin? Aaron T Aaron Do not dry fire the C&S pin without snap caps. Those instructions are on the package. The factory pins forward travel is stopped by the cross pin that retains the firing pin. The C&S pins forward travel is not limited by the retaining pin. Without snap caps the C&S pin will only stop it's forward movement when it collapses the firing pin spring and then slams into the back of the firing pin bushing. You will eventually cause damage to the pin, spring or will beat the pin bushing loose from the recoil shield. With snap caps or normal firing they are fine. The older pins were bad but I have found no fault with the new C&S pins other than not being able to dry fire them without snap caps. Good advice, Gregg. A couple moons with snap caps in them would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 My take on extended firing pins and their use is this.... First ensure that your gun is in time. An out of time gun will break all firing pins. I do not like the cylinder and slide design because it is rounded on the striking face and will peen a divot into the face of the hammer. The Apex is a superior design for several reasons. The first is that it has a flat striking face and does not peen the hammer. The second is that it has the improved travel notch over the stock smith and wesson pin. The third and best reason is that those people stand behind their product. If it breaks you call them up and explain what happened and they send you another. Can't beat that. I recommend the XP version over the competition version for super light hammers as it's longer and ignites primers at a light strain setting. .500 vs. .495 FWIW the two C&S and one APEX I have broken were all during dryfire. At least the spring in the snapcap will push the broken pin back into the gun...spec'd dummies are a little more difficult to clear. Both guns were out of time slightly and the Apex lasted three times as long in this condition(around 15K trigger pulls). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I recommend the XP version over the competition version for super light hammers as it's longer and ignites primers at a light strain setting. .500 vs. .495 The competion pin has a slightly tapered tip vs the more rounded (hemispherical) tip of the "std" to ignite primers with a lighter hammer fall and may pierce soft ( read as Federal) primers if used with a full power mainspring. .495 seems long enough except maybe if you have way excessive headspace or endshake. I run my revolvers all set up to match my 617(s), 7 lbs, but when obsessing over very light pulls I thought the "best" pin was a .495 S&W pin with the tip reshaped like Randy's competition pin. Just another 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 My take on extended firing pins and their use is this.... First ensure that your gun is in time. An out of time gun will break all firing pins. I don't get it. Why would the timing have anything to do with the firing pin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDOUBLETAP Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Alright, I've used both the C&S firing pin and the Apex and can get a lighter pull with the C&S, so I use them. The C&S firing pins have a more blunt tip compared to the Apex with the wedge shaped tip, that probably has something to do with how much main spring tension needs to be applied to maintain reliability, but I haven't looked into that much... I have had one C&S break but that was before they started to step up the quality of their manufacturing process. There new pins seem to be just as durable as the Apex. Also I dry fire my revos without snap caps with the C&S firing pins and never have had any problems. Maybe because I trim down the firing pin spring a little bit?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I don't get it. Why would the timing have anything to do with the firing pin? When the firing pin hits and the cylinder is still turning. Hammer falls and then it locks up....subjecting the pin to a shearing force. Every gun I have broken a firing pin on has been out of time on at least two cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I don't get it. Why would the timing have anything to do with the firing pin? When the firing pin hits and the cylinder is still turning. Hammer falls and then it locks up....subjecting the pin to a shearing force. Every gun I have broken a firing pin on has been out of time on at least two cylinders. You're saying that the primers on live rounds can exert enough of a shearing force on the firing pin to cause it to break, just because the hammer drops before the cylinder fully carries up? Sorry Forrest, but I don't buy that theory for a second. Much more likely you just had defective pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul788 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Slight thread drift: Damage to the firing pin bushing? I have an old K-frame that I dry fire a bunch. The firing pin bushing face is starting to dome outward. I dryfire with fired cases in the chambers. Should I file the bulge around the hole flush or try to peen it down? Or can the bushing be replaced? Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 You're saying that the primers on live rounds can exert enough of a shearing force on the firing pin to cause it to break, just because the hammer drops before the cylinder fully carries up? Sorry Forrest, but I don't buy that theory for a second. Much more likely you just had defective pins. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 You're saying that the primers on live rounds can exert enough of a shearing force on the firing pin to cause it to break, just because the hammer drops before the cylinder fully carries up? Sorry Forrest, but I don't buy that theory for a second. Much more likely you just had defective pins. Mike, Never broke on live rounds. Always in dryfire on either snap caps with the brass primer area C&S or spec'd dummies with no primer Apex. This is just my guess at what was causing it to break, but everybody who knows me will tell you I'm no rocket scientist. Three defective pins in a row seemed a bit much coming from two different manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Slight thread drift: Damage to the firing pin bushing? I have an old K-frame that I dry fire a bunch. The firing pin bushing face is starting to dome outward. I dryfire with fired cases in the chambers. Should I file the bulge around the hole flush or try to peen it down? Or can the bushing be replaced? Thanks Paul Paul, if it's creating a problem you could try filing it or peening it. Otherwise, the bushing can be replaced. If it's a newer gun with the frame-mounted firing pin, the bushing can be replaced fairly easily with common hand tools. If it's an older gun with hammer nose, the bushing replacement requires a special staking tool which generally means a trip back to the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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