RL 550b OAL consistency

[Justinsaneok]

What is this machine capable of? I'm getting some very different lengths. I load 9mm and .40 and both have the same problem. When I load 9mm I'm going for a COAL of 1.15 and am getting anything from 1.14 to 1.19 in .40 cal I'm gunning for 1.20 and getting anything from 1.17 to 1.22! How close should I be getting to my mark with this press. I was told this is okay by two people at Dillon. Am I being OCD with this? I was really excited about cranking ammo out on this bad boy but don't want to waste bullets loading ammo that isn't as accurate as it could be. Is there a certain person I need to talk to there?

To rule out a few known possibilities

Shell plate is tight, dies are all tight,

seater is die is clean,

I'm using the round nose stem for round nose,

I set the dies with cases in the shell plate,

I'm using all the same Winchester brass,

I pull the handle the same( all the way down till it stops)every time,

my sizing die is screwed down finger tight to the shell plate (I had tried it with the die just off the shell plate too with same results),

I took out all the slop from the seating stem by putting a o ring under the clip to hold the stem up all the way,

the press is mounted firmly on a sturdy bench thats mounted to the wall and screwed to the floor,

I can't find any slop in the machine anywhere,

ram head seems to be straight,

I will not accept this as okay or even close to okay. I was told by two different people that I'm off 5 thousandths and thats really good. I told them the lengths over the phone as I measured and didn't catch the mis communication on the hundredths and thousandths. I called back and read the numbers again and he said that was great. I'm good at under 5 thousandths so I told him after the decimal point the first number was the tenth and the second number was the hundredths and the third was the thousandths he was talking about. I said it's 5 hundredths and it wasn't good at all.

[blaster113]

Hmm thats unusual; thats a lot of variation for same headstamp brass. Sounds like the seater die may be a little loose. The seater die on my 550 worked itself loose once and caused me to get shrinking and erratic OAL's till I caught it. Could it be the bullets you're using? Different brands, weights and bullet profiles (CMJ vs. JHP vs lead) will give different OAL's.

I crank out many thousands of .40 on my trusty old 550 and dont see that much of a variation, even with different headstamps. Maybe one of the more experienced reloaders can chime in.

Edited April 26, 2011 by SIG shooter

[CZinSC]

Just trying to think of everything here, not trying to insult you, but your calipers do go down to thousandths right? They're not rounding to hundredths? If you're really talking about getting variances from 1.14 to 1.19, that seems really high. I think 1.145 to 1.149 is acceptable and common, but .05? Seems like a lot to me.

First thought I have are the bullets themselves. Have you measured the bullets OAL? I know from recent experience going from Zero 125FMJ to Montana Gold 124FMJ, the MGs varied alot. I've since gone to a bullet comparator and things have tightened up quite a bit. But again, I was measuring to thousandths, not hundreths. Just something to look at first.

The second thing is this statement:

I took out all the slop from the seating stem by putting a o ring under the clip to hold the stem up all the way,

What exactly do you mean? Did you put an o ring under the clip that holds the seating step in place? If so, did you have the big variances before you did this? Not knowing the answer to that, my thought is that when you're seating, the O ring is compressing just enough to give you the variances you are talking about.

It seems like you're doing everything else correctly.

[Justinsaneok]

Hmm thats unusual; thats a lot of variation for same headstamp brass. Sounds like everything is set up properly and securely. This may be a longshot, but could it be the bullets you're using. I crank out many thousands of .40 on my trusty old 550 and dont see that much of a variation, even with different headstamps and different bullets (cast/moly/different jhps). Maybe one of the more experienced reloaders can chime in.

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I haven't talked to one person that ever had this problem any where close to this bad. I am using rainier bullets they all mic good but it's hard to measure the ogive.

[JakeMartens]

I have had a 550 set up for 11 years, same oal for 45, haven't touched a thing

[Sarge]

first off take a deep breath and relax. This forum will get you fixed up. There are at least a thousand guys on here loading with a 550. It sounds like you have covered all the bases but two or three that I can see.

To get the most consistent oal you have to have the shellplate full. In my experience whenever even one station is empty the oal shortens alot. The way the tool head floats all the stations push up on it to a degree while loading. If the pushing changes anywhere the tool head moves differently.

Also, you have to move the handle in a rhythm to be consistent. Going real slow and checking everything with each pull of the handle won't work. You want to pull the handle the same every time like you are already doing but you also need to let the press work its magic by letting it run.

So try this. Pick your target oal then adjust your seater die to come up just short of it. i.e. if you want 1.15 then set it for 1.145 and snug it down. Now drop in 15 primers or so and start loading. Catch the first and second rounds off the press and set them aside then run the rest off. Catch the last few and set them aside as well. The middle 10 or so should be much closer to your target than you are getting already. I load to 1.13 and I am within one or two thousandths every time

(1.129-1.131 or 2)with many being 1.13 exactly.

Lastly, you did not mention what brand of bullets you are using. Some bullet makers are known to be a little more sloppy than other brands in shaping the bullet. A common bullet that you can find many threads about that causes oal problems is Berry's. They have imperfect heads and cause the bullets to seat at different depths.

Good luck.

[Justinsaneok]

Just trying to think of everything here, not trying to insult you, but your calipers do go down to thousandths right? They're not rounding to hundredths? If you're really talking about getting variances from 1.14 to 1.19, that seems really high. I think 1.145 to 1.149 is acceptable and common, but .05? Seems like a lot to me.

First thought I have are the bullets themselves. Have you measured the bullets OAL? I know from recent experience going from Zero 125FMJ to Montana Gold 124FMJ, the MGs varied alot. I've since gone to a bullet comparator and things have tightened up quite a bit. But again, I was measuring to thousandths, not hundreths. Just something to look at first.

The second thing is this statement:

I took out all the slop from the seating stem by putting a o ring under the clip to hold the stem up all the way,

What exactly do you mean? Did you put an o ring under the clip that holds the seating step in place? If so, did you have the big variances before you did this? Not knowing the answer to that, my thought is that when you're seating, the O ring is compressing just enough to give you the variances you are talking about.

It seems like you're doing everything else correctly.

I put the o ring in between the clip and stem it can't compress during seating. All it does is hold the stem in the die up all the way where it would be when seating the bullet . Tim at Dillon told me to do that. The variances where the same the before and after.

[Sarge]

The second thing is this statement:

I took out all the slop from the seating stem by putting a o ring under the clip to hold the stem up all the way,

I missed this part. Ditch the oring. the machine is supposed to have some "slop" in it.

[Justinsaneok]

first off take a deep breath and relax. This forum will get you fixed up. There are at least a thousand guys on here loading with a 550. It sounds like you have covered all the bases but two or three that I can see.

To get the most consistent oal you have to have the shellplate full. In my experience whenever even one station is empty the oal shortens alot. The way the tool head floats all the stations push up on it to a degree while loading. If the pushing changes anywhere the tool head moves differently.

Also, you have to move the handle in a rhythm to be consistent. Going real slow and checking everything with each pull of the handle won't work. You want to pull the handle the same every time like you are already doing but you also need to let the press work its magic by letting it run.

So try this. Pick your target oal then adjust your seater die to come up just short of it. i.e. if you want 1.15 then set it for 1.145 and snug it down. Now drop in 15 primers or so and start loading. Catch the first and second rounds off the press and set them aside then run the rest off. Catch the last few and set them aside as well. The middle 10 or so should be much closer to your target than you are getting already. I load to 1.13 and I am within one or two thousandths every time

(1.129-1.131 or 2)with many being 1.13 exactly.

Lastly, you did not mention what brand of bullets you are using. Some bullet makers are known to be a little more sloppy than other brands in shaping the bullet. A common bullet that you can find many threads about that causes oal problems is Berry's. They have imperfect heads and cause the bullets to seat at different depths.

Good luck.

Rainier bullets. I actually did run the press at my full speed 400 hr and Im not counting the first few and the last few in my measuring.

[Justinsaneok]

The second thing is this statement:

I took out all the slop from the seating stem by putting a o ring under the clip to hold the stem up all the way,

I missed this part. Ditch the oring. the machine is supposed to have some "slop" in it.

I thought that was ridiculous myself but it's what dillon told me to do.

[The_Vigilante]

You didn't mention what dies you are using. Try this: start with reloading one case at at time-run anywhere from 5-10 cases this way-all should have the same OAL. If not, check the OAL after the seating die and after the crimping die. If there is a difference it is your crimping die which needs an adjustment. If the COAL is the same after crimping then start adding a second case to the process measuring again after seating and then crimping. Continue adding a case to the process until you isolate the die causing the variation. Hope I made myself clear. One other question: Are you using lube on your cases right before reloading them? If not, try using it and see if it makes any difference.

Edited April 26, 2011 by The_Vigilante

[Ben Diss]

Just to be clear, you're saying that you're trying to get a COL of 1.200" and you're getting anywhere from 1.170" to 1.220"?

1. Please, I don't mean to be insulting, but I'd like to see a pic of how you're measuring this.

2. Load five rounds. Measure the COL, pull the bullet and measure the bullet length. Post up the results. Let's see if there's correlation between the COL and bullet length.

3. Remove the crimping die and repeat test 2.

[Justinsaneok]

Just to be clear, you're saying that you're trying to get a COL of 1.200" and you're getting anywhere from 1.170" to 1.220"?

1. Please, I don't mean to be insulting, but I'd like to see a pic of how you're measuring this.

2. Load five rounds. Measure the COL, pull the bullet and measure the bullet length. Post up the results. Let's see if there's correlation between the COL and bullet length.

3. Remove the crimping die and repeat test 2.

I'm using Dillon dies. Ben you'll just have to trust I know how to use this measurey thingy! LOL I checked this micrometer against 4 others and surprisingly they ALL where the same. I did get a slight variance while measuring the bullets. about .01 so I measured a few and put all the ones that were the same in a pile and measured them and the seater plug. They were about .015 off on average. The bullet seems to bottom out on the vent hole in the seater plug. Yes I was putting the round nose bullet in the round nose seater plug. Not really impressed with Rainier bullets right now.

[doulos]

Justinsaneok

I think Kevin Sanders hit it on the head. Having a full shell plate makes a difference in consistent OAL on my 550.

[dugout]

I think Kevin Sanders hit it on the head. Having a full shell plate makes a difference in consistent OAL on my 550.

With all due respect, not a .050 difference; that is a BIG variation! I might buy a .003 difference but...

Justin if the bullet is seated with pressure on the end of the bullet the COL should be consistent. If the seater pressure is applied to the Ogive of the bullet all bets are off. This dimension can be extremely inconsistent in some bullets. As has been stated I seriously doubt it is the press and would urge you to try a different brand of bullet.

[Justinsaneok]

I can't believe I didn't mention that I keep the shell plate full all the time. And to make sure its not because of any change in the start and stop points I don"t count the first and last few I set them aside.

[Postal Bob]

Along with everything else people mentioned, here's one problem that occured with mine. I inherited the press, so it was set up by someone else. Apparently this person had the sizing die screwed too far down where it made contact with the shell plate fairly well. Over time the shell plate must've gotten slightly bent from this. Didn't notice this until I took off the shell plate and laid it on a flat surface. You were able to wobble it ever so slight. New shell plate fixed the different lengths. So make sure your shell plate isn't bent, or that your dies aren't contacting the shell plate forcefully.

[CZinSC]

I think Kevin Sanders hit it on the head. Having a full shell plate makes a difference in consistent OAL on my 550.

With all due respect, not a .050 difference; that is a BIG variation! I might buy a .003 difference but...

Justin if the bullet is seated with pressure on the end of the bullet the COL should be consistent. If the seater pressure is applied to the Ogive of the bullet all bets are off. This dimension can be extremely inconsistent in some bullets. As has been stated I seriously doubt it is the press and would urge you to try a different brand of bullet.

This seems like the most plausible reason since it sounds like you're doing everything else correctly. You mentioned that bullets are bottoming out on the vent hole in the seating plug. Are all of the bullets doing this? Take the plug out, and check a lot of them, and see if they are all bottoming out, or are some not. If that happens, then some are being seated at the tip, some at the Ogive. In that case you will definitely get big variances.

I started using the Redding Competition seating die and it seats on the ogive and makes thing a lot tighter variance wise.

[Ben Diss]

I'm using Dillon dies. Ben you'll just have to trust I know how to use this measurey thingy! LOL I checked this micrometer against 4 others and surprisingly they ALL where the same. I did get a slight variance while measuring the bullets. about .01 so I measured a few and put all the ones that were the same in a pile and measured them and the seater plug. They were about .015 off on average. The bullet seems to bottom out on the vent hole in the seater plug. Yes I was putting the round nose bullet in the round nose seater plug. Not really impressed with Rainier bullets right now.

You're using a micrometer or a caliper?

I've measured some Berry's, Montana Gold, Hornady and Speers and I've never seen more than a few .001's difference. What your seeing is huge compared to what I see on these other brands.

BTW, for that much variance in seating depth, you should be able to see the difference with the naked eye. Put two loaded rounds next to each other on a flat surface and you should be able to spot .020" difference.

[Ben Diss]

Tell you what. How about I send you a dozen bullets from my stash for you to test and load. Let's eliminate the bullets. I've got some 185 JSWC, 200 grain MG JFP, 230 Berry's PRN. PM me your address and I'll drop some in the mail.

[Justinsaneok]

Tell you what. How about I send you a dozen bullets from my stash for you to test and load. Let's eliminate the bullets. I've got some 185 JSWC, 200 grain MG JFP, 230 Berry's PRN. PM me your address and I'll drop some in the mail.

I think the bullets have something to do with it. I will be messing with this tonight when I get home. Last night I measured a few bullets and the seater plug and they were all different and thats with picking through and finding some that were measuring .560 long. So I have a problem right there. Bullets that are the same size aren't fitting in the plug at the same depth. All of the bullets are off buy .005 and thats not much. Not enough to get me this far off. I checked 50 bullets to get 7 the same OAL. LOL Save your bullets for now Ben. I do appreciate the offer.

[Sarge]

The length being close to the same has nothing to do with it. The shape of the bullets not being identical would be the problem. If you take a bullet that is one inch long and one that is a half inch long and seat them they would be the same oal as long as the shape of the bullet was identical.(lengths used for dramitization of course)

[Justinsaneok]

The length being close to the same has nothing to do with it. The shape of the bullets not being identical would be the problem. If you take a bullet that is one inch long and one that is a half inch long and seat them they would be the same oal as long as the shape of the bullet was identical.(lengths used for dramitization of course)

Ya but it still will be different because the one inch bullet seats in the case farther so pressure goes higher than the half inch bullet because less of the half inch bullet is seated in the case. So yes the longer bullet does not effect COAL but does affect accuracy, constancy and my sanity. Plus they all weigh the same but are different lengths so the weight or mass is in different places on the bullets if they are different lengths. So if they are seating of the ogive part they will never seat to the same depth at the tip.

[Sarge]

The length being close to the same has nothing to do with it. The shape of the bullets not being identical would be the problem. If you take a bullet that is one inch long and one that is a half inch long and seat them they would be the same oal as long as the shape of the bullet was identical.(lengths used for dramitization of course)

Ya but it still will be different because the one inch bullet seats in the case farther so pressure goes higher than the half inch bullet because less of the half inch bullet is seated in the case. So yes the longer bullet does not effect COAL but does affect accuracy, constancy and my sanity. Plus they all weigh the same but are different lengths so the weight or mass is in different places on the bullets if they are different lengths. So if they are seating of the ogive part they will never seat to the same depth at the tip.

Round nose bullets do seat off the ogive and if it is imperfect from bullet to bullet then that will wreak havoc on your oal. I agree with the others who suggest some top quality bullets.

[Justinsaneok]

The length being close to the same has nothing to do with it. The shape of the bullets not being identical would be the problem. If you take a bullet that is one inch long and one that is a half inch long and seat them they would be the same oal as long as the shape of the bullet was identical.(lengths used for dramitization of course)

Ya but it still will be different because the one inch bullet seats in the case farther so pressure goes higher than the half inch bullet because less of the half inch bullet is seated in the case. So yes the longer bullet does not effect COAL but does affect accuracy, constancy and my sanity. Plus they all weigh the same but are different lengths so the weight or mass is in different places on the bullets if they are different lengths. So if they are seating of the ogive part they will never seat to the same depth at the tip.

Round nose bullets do seat off the ogive and if it is imperfect from bullet to bullet then that will wreak havoc on your oal. I agree with the others who suggest some top quality bullets.

I 100 % agree with your statement. Some of my round nose rainiers however bottom out all the way to the vent hole. Some do not.