Best 1911, on a tight budget???

[Steve Moneypenny]

Red Dog. don't worry about it lets just call it a question about using your IDPA gun in ipsc :-)

my first question to you is what do you WANT to do. and what CAN you spend?

If you want a CDP 45 then i would say buy some wilson 10 rounders some IPSC mag pouches and shoot Limited 10 which quite a few folks shoot L 10 with single stack 45's (thats what it was made for )

9mm CAN be reloaded to make major in OPEN. limited divisions requre a .400 bullet diameter minimum to make major. i believe matt burkett shoots a 9mm in limited at times. VERY flat especially good for those of us who aren't real good at recoil control.

if you don't want to reload 9mm and SSP/Production might be an idea. but if you have plenty of money 50 can be had for under $8 a box and 45 for around $10. just send me all that 45 brass u won't be needing :-)

Steve

[rhino]

I don't know about ISPC in other countries, but in USPSA you will be better off with the .45. You can shoot it in IDPA Custom Defensive Pistol for now, then when you find a USPSA/IPSC club, you can get some 10-rd magazines and shoot it in Limited-10 or Limited (or even Open) Divisions in USPSA/IPSC.

If you get a 9mm, you won't be able to make major power factor in USPSA. You can with a .40, but if you don't reload a .45ACP is a much better option for several reasons.

[Steve Moneypenny]

Rhino, could i trouble you for some of those several reasons :-) i'm curious.

[rhino]

In general ...

1. 1911s are more reliable out of the box in .45ACP than they are in .40, especially with factory ammo

2. .45ACP mags that work 100% can be had for $10-15 for really nice 8- and 10-rders (Mitchell copies of Power Mags). Good .40 mags for a given gun can be troublesome (and/or expensive) to find.

3. The variety and supply of 1911s in .45ACP dwarfs that of those available in .40 by a wide margin, especially at the lower end prices.

4. 1911s are more reliable out of the box in .45ACP than they are in .40, especially with factory ammo

[Loves2Shoot]

In general ...

1. 1911s are more reliable out of the box in .45ACP than they are in .40, especially with factory ammo

2. .45ACP mags that work 100% can be had for $10-15 for really nice 8- and 10-rders (Mitchell copies of Power Mags).  Good .40 mags for a given gun can be troublesome (and/or expensive) to find.

3. The variety and supply of 1911s in .45ACP dwarfs that of those available in .40 by a wide margin, especially at the lower end prices.

4. 1911s are more reliable out of the box in .45ACP than they are in .40, especially with factory ammo

I disagree on the whole reliablitly thing. .40 is so much cheaper to shoot unless you like .45 I wouldn't hesitate going that route.

As far as out of the box goes, every competition gun, or carry gun, should be sent to someone who knows what the're doing as soon as you take it out of the box.

http://www.trippresearch.com/products/40sw/40sw.htm

All you need to know as far as mags go, and for the same price as good 10 round .45 mags. I've seen too many spend $10-15 for a mag that craps out that would have rather spent the extra $10 for Wilson quality mags.

That being said I think everybody should have at least one single stack .45 for posperity sake, but for competition, .40 is the way to go IMO, and yes I have a $2000 single stack .45

[rhino]

I disagree on the whole reliablitly thing. .40 is so much cheaper to shoot unless you like .45 I wouldn't hesitate going that route.

How many mass produced single stack 1911s have you seen that will run 100% with factory .40 ammo? I've not seen many. I've seen a few that run great with handloads loaded longer than factory .40, but that's not germaine to the discussion since the message to which I originally replied indicated no reloading.

I've seen many .45s that run like champs from day one.

As far as out of the box goes, every competition gun, or carry gun, should be sent to someone who knows what the're doing as soon as you take it out of the box.

Why? If it works the way it is, why? That makes no sense, unless you expect it to NOT work properly. If that's the case, buy a Glock. This topic isn't about buying something for the frame and slide and essentially having a custom gun built from the remnants of a factory gun. It's about economy 1911 choices.

http://www.trippresearch.com/products/40sw/40sw.htm

All you need to know as far as mags go, and for the same price as good 10 round .45 mags. I've seen too many spend $10-15 for a mag that craps out that would have rather spent the extra $10 for Wilson quality mags.

Almost $30 per magazine ... vs. $10 and $12 for Mitchell magazines that work perfectly because they are identical to CMC Power Mags. Even the "genuine" power mags can be had for well under $20, sometimes less than $15. They are at least as good as Wilson mags in my experience.

[Loves2Shoot]

Why?  If it works the way it is, why?

As far as out of the out of the box reliablity I don't have the numbers, but every .40 SS I know runs, can't say the same about .45's, but then again, there are 10,000 .45's to every .40

Hmm, sort of like buying a Corvette and putting racing tires on it if your goning to put a few laps on the track. If your gonna race it (or trust your life on it), get a tune-up, sort of like putting a 3.5 disconector in a Glock, you don't neccesarily need to but it isn't a bad idea IMO. That is why it's a must on any race/carry gun IMO to make sure it is perfect regardless of how well it was made.

$100 having someone fine tune a factory 1911 isn't the same as scraping it and doing a rebuild. The $ you save in ammo will (even with the more expensive mags) will be huge from .40 to .45 if you shoot it at all.

Save a penny spend a dime. If you are looking for cheap you have to add in the biggest cost of shooting, which is the shooting of projectiles

[John Forsyth]

There is nothing magic about making a .45 auto run. Having several, they all ran out of the box, but needed those little tweeks that I deem necessary, except for one, a Colt 01091 SS 1911A1. 1911's in .40 tend to be a little picky. At least everyone I have dealt with and I have a couple.

If I was going to buy a box stock single stack 1911A1 to play with, without wanting to put any more into it than was necessary, it would be a Colt model number 01091. They run. Mine eats every thing I have fed it. And I can hit a 6in plate at 25yds with it.

FYI, I have a couple of +$2000 single stacks. They run better than they look, and they look great.

[Red Dog]

Thanks for the replies. I am willing to spend somewhere between $1000 and $1500. I would consider a used gun, and will probably compete in Limited 10. What about a doublestack .40? Is there some reason people prefer singlestacks?

[Loves2Shoot]

Thanks for the replies. I am willing to spend somewhere between $1000 and $1500. I would consider a used gun, and will probably compete in Limited 10. What about a doublestack .40? Is there some reason people prefer singlestacks?

If you get a double stack you can compete in both L10 and Limited if you want to. There are a lot of good used guns in that range. Reloading a double stack is a tad easier.

I like the SS for the fit and cool factor of being "the" classic pistol

[Duane Thomas]

Thanks for the replies. I am willing to spend somewhere between $1000 and $1500. I would consider a used gun, and will probably compete in Limited 10. What about a doublestack .40?

If I had $1,500 to spend, I would RUN, not walk, to the phone and order a Les Baer Premier II. I just got through testing several of Les Baer's guns for articles, and it's really rather extraordinary they can offer a Premier II for that price. For the money you get:

- A true hard fit slide-to-frame-to-barrel fit that will last far longer than the typical out-of-the-box factory 1911

- Adjustable sights

- 4-pound trigger pull, crisp, adjusted for overtravel

- Ambi safety

- Frontstrap checkered 30-lpi

Plus of course of the "standard" goodies we expect on a 1911 these days: aluminum trigger, beavertail grip safety, bevelled mag well, etc. Really the only thing this gun needs to rock in IDPA/USPSA, in my opinion is a mag funnel.

I know I sound like a flack for Les Baer, but the Premier II is truly an amazing handgun for the money. Them's the facts.

Is there some reason people prefer singlestacks?

Brian Enos once - based on his IMMENSE experience in the matter - ranked how easy it was to get a 1911 to run 100 percent reliably, based on caliber (.40 or .45) and magazine type (single- or doublestack). For easiest to hardest, the list went:

Singlestack .45

Doublestack .40

Singlestack .40

Doublestack .45

[j1b]

You know . . . every gun is going to have its challenges. No matter what gun you buy, or who builds it (should you choose to have someone build it) there is a potential for the gun to not function in the manner that you expect (funtion, accuracy, feel etc. etc.)

For $1,500 you should be able to get a fine blaster that will do all that you need it to do. Fact is, people have spent a lot more money on guns that didn't work. There are no guarantees though, and guns change over time so no matter what you will always need to fine tune. Of all the guns I've owned, only one has never needed anything but a new barrel once the old one was shot out - it was a single stack .45.

I am like Duane, a single stack .45 is by far the easiest gun to get working, and keep working as time goes on. In IPSC, it also represents a bit of a disadvantage. Any gun can be made to work though - and that's the good news. I have a 38 Super single stack that works all the time and is a blast to shoot. I've got multiple comp guns that are as reliable as the day is long - I've also got well built comp guns that I don't shoot today - because they work 99% of the time - its just that 1% of the time that seems to kill me. Currently I shoot a double stack .40 and (crossing fingers) I've had no issues.

Everyone is going to have their preferences. I've said it before in this forum (and the members would tell you I'm biased) but I believe the Springfield TRP is one of the best single stack guns out there. I own two, the super mentioned above, and a .45. The .45 TRP replaced my all time favorite and most reliable .45. For me, that spoke volumes about the quality of my TRP.

JB

[rhino]

Hey, Jack ... did you get any feedback from your pals at Springfield about my 9mm yet?

[j1b]

No - but to be honest I haven't followed up.

I'm out the rest of this week - here the weekend - out next week. I will follow up though.

Thx,

JB

[MBaneACP]

My Trojan SS .40 ran 100% out of the box with Armscor factory 180-grain FMJs, my .40 major power factor reloads that I'd put togther for a BHP, minor PF .40s I loaded up for some reason or the other and the longer major PF .40s I'd done when I had my Edge.

The cavaet is using STI mags...I tried a bunch of others and beat myself senseless until Virgil Tripp got his stuff up and running. Since then, I stick to STI mags or Tripp Research mags ( 9 & 10 rounders) and everything is hunky-dorey.

As for magazine price, in my single stack .45s, I exclusively use Wilson mags, so the price isn't that much of an issue...

mb

PS: Duane, I'd take a Trojan over the Les Baer...

[rhino]

PS: Duane, I'd take a Trojan over the Les Baer...

I'd have to agree on that!

The Baer's I've shot have been nice guns for the most part, but I like the Trojans better. I've seen more reliability problems from Les Baer guns than with Trojans too.

[Duane Thomas]

PS: Duane, I'd take a Trojan over the Les Baer...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Trojan .45 have a ramped barrel? Never a good idea in .45. A local shooter has a Trojan .45, and it won't feed anything but hardball. This is not at all unusual among .45 autos with ramped barrels. In the medium bore calibers, 9mm Para, .38 Super and its kin, even .40 S&W, I think a ramped barrel can be a good idea, but not in .45.

[rhino]

Why in the world is a ramped barrel a bad thing for a .45??

My experience (both personal and witnissing others' guns) with ramped barrels for .45s is exactly the opposite. It's a very good thing! My two Paras (P14.45) are the most reliable guns I've ever owned, including several Glocks and a SiG-Sauer P226.

If I ever have to rebarrel any of my single stack guns, it will be with a ramped barrel.

[Duane Thomas]

Experiences differ. Mine are exactly the opposite. Also, talking to various pistolsmiths over the years, men like Bill Laughride of Cylinder & Slide Shop, Bruce Gray, Les Baer, etc. has given me that opinion. Hey, if it works for you, great.

[Red Dog]

After reading all of these inputs, I think I would prefer a doublestack 40. Is STI my best option, or is there another company to consider in the $1500 price range?

[Derek45]

I'm looking for a solid, functional, no frills 1911 on a incredibly tight budget.

I saw that Charles Daly has a very low priced 1911 this year. Does anyone know anything about them?

I also keep hearing about this Rock Island 1911, good or bad?

Both guns are under $400. Is there anything else out there I should be considering?

I just found this site, looks like a good one!

Kimber or Springfield Armory.

I wouldn't go any lower than that.

It doesn't make sense to buy a crappy cast gun and fix it up.

You can make a very nice 1911 if you start out with any Kimber or Springfield Armory as a base gun.

This gun started out as a Mil-spec 1911, it was my limited gun in the 1990's

This is my current 1911, it started out as a basic blue fixed sight Kimber Classic.

Kimber CustomClassic. KART barrel, Bo-Mar Lo-mounted sight. Edbrown ambi safety, S&A magwell, Wilson trigger CMC extreme grip safety, hand checkered by Me 20lpi. Industrial hard chromed by METALIFE.

[rhino]

Derek ... I like the CMC grip safety. I had one fit to one of my Kimbers too and it made it a much better gun. Why Kimber uses that crappy "low ride" beavertail grip safety escapes me.

Did you have to recut the dovetail for the rear sight, or does Bo-Mar make a model that slides into the Kimber fixed sight dovetail? If the latter, I think I may put one on my gun too.

You did good work!

[Derek45]

Derek ... I like the CMC grip safety. I had one fit to one of my Kimbers too and it made it a much better gun. Why Kimber uses that crappy "low ride" beavertail grip safety escapes me.

Did you have to recut the dovetail for the rear sight, or does Bo-Mar make a model that slides into the Kimber fixed sight dovetail? If the latter, I think I may put one on my gun too.

You did good work!

Ken Hallock milled the slide for Bo-Mars.

He's retired now.

It's the standard Bo-Mar sight. The Kimber dovetail is about half way done, compared to a Colt or Mil-spec.

Any decent 1911 smith can cut a Kimber for Bo-Mars.

Yep, I hate the Kimber beavertail, I've used the Ed Brown for years, but my last two guns got the CMC extreme. I like 'em.

Thanks !

[rhino]

Yep, I hate the Kimber beavertail, I've used the Ed Brown for years, but my last two guns got the CMC extreme. I like 'em.

I chose the CMC because I "heard" that it was closest fit to the Kimber frames. After trying it, it was pretty darned close and only need a little extra metal removed from the frame.

I tried to do the same on a Series II gun, but I couldn't get the CMC grip safety to deactivate the firing pin safety.

[BoldasLions]

I want to revive this old old thread for the sake of the searchers. A simple Rock Island 1911A1 is a great firearms for under 400 hundred. The STI Spartan is a amazing 9mm 1911 for around 600.