Texas Star Question

[Yardbird]

How does this work in a shotgun match, stage or 3 Gun?

You're shooting imp. choke and #8's and you get to that one plate that's stretching it out there a bit and it wobbles on the first shot, twists a tiny bit on shot two, another wiggle on three... Reshoot... Same thing. It's just a bit too far out there. Again and again. There are hits visible on the plate.

Endless reshoots? Do you get 3, 4, 5, 10 runs on the stage to try to knock it down? Everyone else managed it in a shot or two or even three. Isn't that a miss?

[Loves2Shoot]

"Coney Island"?!?! You have some problem with designing innovative, challenging and fun target arrays. I guess if we left it up to you we would just shoot wide open IPSC targets at between 7 and 10 yards. Don't dare cover part of one target with another or with a no-shoot since you might run into scoring problems with bullets that cut the perf on the top target.

The Texas Star is just one of a number of new target arrays to come out of this part of the world (windmill, bear traps). They add new challenges to the shooting and give stage designers additional tools to vary the stages presented to shooters. The amount of traffic on this board regarding the Texas Star should give you some idea of the popularity of the target.

If you think the (very rare) possibility of shooting a plate on the star so that it hangs on one pin without coming off is sufficient reason to ban the array from USPSA competition then I strongly suggest you never come to West Texas for a match.  The upcoming Texas State 3-Gun Championship features five Texas Stars, 6 bear traps, two hammers (like a star but with just two plates), 17 swingers, 4 suspension bridges, one windmill, moving targets at 100yds., and four poppers that throw clay pigeons into the air. I'm sure you couldn't get past the "Coney Island" air to appreciate the shooting challenges presented.

Cheers,

Kelly McCoy

Consistancy is my main complaint with using the star in a match. If you don't shoot it just right it is a VERY punative target. Getting it to work the same for everyone has been a challenge in the matches I've seen it in, and the nice thing about having standardized targets is EVERYONE can practice them, if you have a star to practice on it is a definite advanatge. That is my complaint about "special" props being used in big matches.

[jkmccoy]

OK, OK, The "Coney Island" thing touched a nerve. As long as you all don't try to ban our cute toys, we won't set up a calliope at the range.

We've shot the stars a number of times with a shotgun. We usually set them up pretty close (~9m) and they work fine. It is possible (but very rare) to just hit a plate with a couple of pellets and make it wobble, or hang on one pin, but not fall off. If it was a static 8" plate on a stand the same thing would be possible. Anything like a solid hit reliably knocks the plate off of the star. The two or three times (out of literally hundreds of shooters) it has happened that the plate came partway off and hung on one pin the shooter immediately shot it again. Just like you would do if you edged a static plate and it only moved partway off of the stand. I really think we are discussing a non-issue.

I do make a pretty mean BBQ brisket, but I can't figure out how to haul my smoker all the way to the World Shoot.

I hate decaf!

Cheers,

Kelly McCoy

A42081

[D.Hayden]

The upcoming Texas State 3-Gun Championship features five Texas Stars, 6 bear traps, two hammers (like a star but with just two plates), 17 swingers, 4 suspension bridges, one windmill, moving targets at 100yds., and four poppers that throw clay pigeons into the air. I'm sure you couldn't get past the "Coney Island" air to appreciate the shooting challenges presented.

This sounds really fun! Wish it was closer.

I think it's a non-issue too. The local matches here use the Texas Star once in a while, it presents a target not seen too often - I don't think I've seen it have an equipment failure yet (admitedly a small sample), I've seen regular popper and plates break or fail - it all works out in the end.

[Flexmoney]

Yardbird,

You bring up an interesting question.

In out last Steel Challenge match, I RO'ed a shooter that had a"hit" that only touched the side of the plate. Well...actually...it had to "touch" the front of the plate....but not by much.

On paper, this would be a round that barely touches the line on the outside of the A-zone...which, of course, scores the Alpha.

With the "must fall when hit" wording (stage design)...we would have a plate that didn't fall, but was hit. A malfunctioning plate.

Then we have the "steel must fall to score" wording (scoring).

I think that is where the contradiction lies. An edge hit is a hit, but it may not knock down the plate.

The "adequately hit" wording solves the issue from the other thread on what to do when a plate malfunctions (i.e. a broken plate rack).

[Jack Suber]

Man, did I stir it up or what? I hope it (a hanging plate - oh oh, that sounds like a hangin' chad) never happens to me in a major match but if it does, I hope I have the presence of mind to shoot it again. I hate reshoots. Take care.

[Jim Norman]

The "Texas Star" is a fantastic array. We haveshot it with shotgun and pistol, we have used it in a match although not a major since we only have one and wouldn't want an equipment failure to cause a stage to get tossed.

Set it up so that you have to hit a popper ot open a door or the like to get it going and have at it.

It can humble the best!

Jim

[benny hill]

Haveing shot a zillion texas star's w/ all three gun's, I can tell you yardbird that you want to use tactical #4 buck on it at any range, not wimp #8 shot. have seen other people leave one hanging w/ light loads but not with #4 buck.

[jkmccoy]

OK, the question of edge hits on plates is be a valid point. According to current USPSA rules (and according to Troy's report according to the soon to be adopted rules) if there is any hit on a plate and it does not fall that shall constitute REF. Too bad we didn't adopt Vince's language of "adequate hit". That means if a plate on a Texas Star is hit and is just hanging by one pin, and the competitor does not re-engage it and knock it off, it will be declared REF and the competitor will receive a reshoot. I don't like it much, but I can live with it.

However, this thread has brought up several issues regarding "novelty" target arrays (and the Texas Star in particular) that I would like to comment on. Yes Jack, you really did stir it up. All of this over one hanging plate!

We shoot the star fairly often (the club owns two and the manufacturer is a member so we can borrow more for big matches). We set them up for club matches and we've run several big matches that had at least one, often more, stars. Hundreds and hundreds of shooters have shot the Texas Star on our range with pistols and shotguns. The situation that started this thread has NOT been a problem. There has been NO problem with consistency. In fact, hasn't J. Amidon ruled that the Texas Star is sufficiently consistent to be a legal target array? I am sorry for those of you who experienced a match where the star wasn't set up correctly or you received a bum ruling (if the plate was hit and didn't fall off you should have received a reshoot), but I really don't think it is a failing of the target array (rather a failing of the running of the match).

It has been suggested (although probably off topic) that the situation Jack presented is yet another reason to ban all "novelty" target arrays. All target arrays and props shall work reliably and present consistent challenges to all shooters (4.5.1). That is the responsibility of the match officials and applies to all props, not just "novelties." If the array/prop isn't working properly and consistenly it is the responsibility of the match officials to fix it.

Very few people personally own the props/target arrays to practice swingers, drop turners, twist-and-turn targets, etc. Do you own a popper? I don't. It isn't a problem. The shooting skills required to properly engage such "novelty" target arrays are skills that can be practiced on static targets. Want to shoot some of these arrays more often? Get your club to buy some and set them up for club matches. It seems to me that one of the responsibilities of USPSA clubs is to provide at club matches the kinds of shooting challenges that their members are likely to see at major matches. We work under that philosophy at San Angelo. You could always come down here for our club matches.

p.s. I'm really just a medium B class shooter and I find the Texas Star very easy to shoot. It only looks intimidating. It is really not much harder than shooting 5 static 8" plates (actually I have a real block about static plates and I find 5 static plates harder than the star).

Cheers,

Kelly McCoy

A42081