50GI-Jess Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Very interesting post/picture of 45 Colt history. In fact I just sold an unopen 12 pack of Frankford Arsenal from 1873 for $800 on an auction. Another thing about this thread topic, is that I just don't get the whole SASS idea! They dress up and all, in order to everything more realistic. Yet they don't shoot the same type of realistic power floor from the same time period. How in the world, can anyone being into guns and gear from this time period, think a power factor of 100 is truely western style. Well, that may just be me, but I wan't to feel that SAA rock in my hand, when I go cowboy style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 As far as cowboy (SASS) shooting, I've done it for over 10 years. For me the main attraction was shooting big bore cowboy revolvers and throwing a good sized chunk of lead downrange, as opposed to plinking with 22's. After a couple of matches, I started shooting black powder. Started with a sub-bp and quickly changed to all real black poweder, 44 specials or russians in the handguns (one handed, duelist style) and a 44-40 rifle. The same 200 gr. bullet in both. When I shoot my 45, it's with 250 gr. bullets. I decided I wanted to shoot what I would enjoy shooting, calibers and loads, and then try to be as competitive with them as I could. The other way to go would be to decide what guns, calibers and loads would allow you to be most competitive. The top shooters are generally not shooting the extreme light loads, but not heavy loads either. Now, I've cut down on the cowboy matches and shoot IDPA, USPSA and ICORE. But I enjoy all of them. I do like shooting double action revolvers and will eventually try it in USPSA but I'll leave the single action revolvers to my cowboy shooting. The same goes with my 1911's. They now have Wild BUnch side matches in SASS that use 1911's. But the way they are used doesn't interest me. I'd rather shoot them in the modern gun games. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Except for the reloads taking about 99.9% of your time I agree with Flexmoney. Shoot that tool! God help you in par time stages with mandatory reloads On a side note if you where to run a 38/357 or a 44 you could use a speed loader. My dad carries a .44 Desert Eagle mag in his hunting coat and holds it in the side gate on his Super Blackhawk. He strips rounds off the mag right into the chambers and he actually does it pretty quick. If I ever see anyone try this I am going to yell Wyatt Earp every time he finishes a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The REAL reason no one shoots single actions in USPSA is the rest of the guys in the squad would kill him having to wait around all day for him to finish the match. Cowboy Action Records I think Spencer Hoglund could hang with a Schofield in moonclips at minor. These cowboy action folks aren't slouches...their sport places different demands on its participants. Like dressing up old school and saying odd things...instead of wearing a fishing vest and peeking out from yonder blue barrel....or standing toes on the x's hands above shoulders wearing a "somebody shirt" and camera hat. I say we moonclip a few schofields just to piss off the open crowd. I figure we could take a hard look at the front sight and touch it a coupla three times, check ejector function, draw cock and dryfire every target, spin the cylinder and then begrudgingly load and become ready. If a schofield squad could ever be gotten together I'd guarantee it would be almost always waiting on the squad ahead of it to get off the stage. Squads with a high number of revos in them are fast...the people don't take extra shots...make ready faster...and work to reset the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hey Grumpy, http://www.uberti.com/video/index.php Your point? http://abacom.com/~jkrause/hickok.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108064707AAwC3jL http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_guns_did_Wild_Bill_Hickock_use I don't understand the anamosity. Wild Bill was famous for his old navy's but was also known to carry schofields. What does it really matter anyway? No animosity here.... Maybe you are thinking of a different Wild Bill Actually, Buffalo Bill Cody carried a Schofield, and Doc Holliday..... At any rate, I say go for it with the Schofield....I think it'd be a hoot to watch.... And it doesn't matter...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) To be fair, revolver shooters seem to have a LOT of fun and yes they certainly shoot USPSA, I personally think they are nutty but I'm not judging their choices, its simply that those are choices I wouldn't make for myself. I think you should try it, if no thing else you'll get lots of people talking to you (or about you) and likely they'll all think its pretty cool. I somewhat doubt they can be shot as fast as DA's on the average stage, but the biggest problem would be reloads, as they are likely to be very slow. Does anyone make speed loaders for them (or moonclips) ? Edited to add: I never said they weren't GOOD shooters, just nutty Edited AGAIN to add: Also ... for some reason I want a .44mag revolver, no reason really. Just want one. I also know FULLY well that if I buy one, I'll end up getting it cut for moonclips and shoot a few matches with it, so this post WILL come back and bit me in the ass as some point. what you don't shoot a 44mag now. Dang it. What is it with you young healthy guys. Ol granny here is known to show up with a S&W model 29-3 with a 8 3/8 barrel. My carry gun you know. BTW the trigger is as smooth as pulling your trigger through air and that's double action. Edited April 3, 2011 by West Texas Granny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Ps. Deuce Stevens can draw, shoot five, holster, draw shoot five again from his Ruger Vaqueros in somewhere around the 2.9 second mark. google cowboy shooting world records, that will probably turn up some video. Deuce is local and YES he is very fast. So is his wife for that matter, and the rest of his family. You don't have to go to a BP only match to see smoke. Every match has guys shooting BP. Goat Lips, yes that is his handle, puts red sparks, dragons breath, cracklers, all kinds of stuff in his 12ga. BP loads. As a RO on the side matches at the state shoot the last couple years, the fight for the fastest 10 rounds through a colt lightning 22 was between about a dozen guys and times ranged between 1.1 seconds and .82 seconds (locked and loaded). Yes, .82 seconds to dump 10 rounds onto some steel with a 100 year old pump rifle! Try 5 hits on a Ram at 200 meters with an 1886 winchester 45-90 in 4.6 seconds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Very interesting post/picture of 45 Colt history. In fact I just sold an unopen 12 pack of Frankford Arsenal from 1873 for $800 on an auction. Another thing about this thread topic, is that I just don't get the whole SASS idea! They dress up and all, in order to everything more realistic. Yet they don't shoot the same type of realistic power floor from the same time period. How in the world, can anyone being into guns and gear from this time period, think a power factor of 100 is truely western style. Well, that may just be me, but I wan't to feel that SAA rock in my hand, when I go cowboy style. The Classic cowboy and Frontier Plainsman categories both require period ammo, firearms, and clothing. And they do have a power factor minimum and maximum. B-western category requires conchos and popular TV and Movie firearms like the 1887 lever action 12ga, like schwartzy in term2. Page 15: http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/2011ROMaterials/SASSHandbook-17-2011.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It is my impression that most cowboy loads are far lighter then the powerfactor we require in our guns. I suspect they would be somewhat harder to shoot at that speed with power factor ammo, but hey .. I might be wrong. I think I know why cowboy targets are all steel. Their loads won't quite make it through cardboard. I say run the SA cowboy gun. Who cares if you are the odd man out as long as you have a good time with it. If I remember correctly, fun is why most of us do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 "The Classic cowboy and Frontier Plainsman categories both require period ammo, firearms, and clothing. And they do have a power factor minimum and maximum. B-western category requires conchos and popular TV and Movie firearms like the 1887 lever action 12ga, like schwartzy in term2." Classic Cowboy and Plainsman do have caliber restrictions (40 cal and above for Classic) but they don't have a higher minimum power factor. There is no maximum power factor, only a maximum fps, and they have the same minimum power factor requirement. One thing that alway strikes me as funny is that if you shoot a 45 Colt with 250 gr bullet at 850fps, 150 fps under the maximum allowed, some people will complain that you will ruin their targets. But they wlll turn around and use the same targets in a plainsman match with guys shooting 45-70's and not assume that the same targets will be damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 As far as thumb cocking single actions, that's one of the big reasons I couldn't get into Cowboy Action shooting. I viewed thumb cocking as unrealistic gaming. You are talking "two handed" thumb cocking, since you have to thumb cock a SAA. That one has been depabte among the Cowboy shooters for years. You don't have to go to a BP only match to see smoke. Every match has guys shooting BP. Goat Lips, yes that is his handle, puts red sparks, dragons breath, cracklers, all kinds of stuff in his 12ga. BP loads. No, but the BP only matches are a hoot! Everyone knows Goat Lips, and love his loads. Hilarious! I think I know why cowboy targets are all steel. Their loads won't quite make it through cardboard. THAT'S FUNNY!!! I seriously knew guys that were shooting 32-20's with a like a 90g. bullet and 1g. of bullseye, there is a 90g. .32 H&R bullet available that is specially marketed to CAS, and I know at least one manufacturer that produces a 105 g. .38/.357 bullet for CAS. It is painfully obvious when you find almost non deformed slugs laying under steel that they are not traveling too fast. I know several shooters that have one load for steel plates, and another for KD's. I would use the same load for rifle, pistol and all targets engaged. It was good enough to keep me at the top of the pack. You will also find many of the good shooters shot decent loads. The good ones are very good. Back to the revolvers, the Schofield is just much better, having a lower hammer, to be fired with one hand than two. If I were to shoot mounted, I would probably try them, but two handed on the ground, they would be tough. WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 As far as thumb cocking single actions, that's one of the big reasons I couldn't get into Cowboy Action shooting. I viewed thumb cocking as unrealistic gaming. You are talking "two handed" thumb cocking, since you have to thumb cock a SAA. That one has been depabte among the Cowboy shooters for years. You don't have to go to a BP only match to see smoke. Every match has guys shooting BP. Goat Lips, yes that is his handle, puts red sparks, dragons breath, cracklers, all kinds of stuff in his 12ga. BP loads. No, but the BP only matches are a hoot! Everyone knows Goat Lips, and love his loads. Hilarious! I think I know why cowboy targets are all steel. Their loads won't quite make it through cardboard. THAT'S FUNNY!!! I seriously knew guys that were shooting 32-20's with a like a 90g. bullet and 1g. of bullseye, there is a 90g. .32 H&R bullet available that is specially marketed to CAS, and I know at least one manufacturer that produces a 105 g. .38/.357 bullet for CAS. It is painfully obvious when you find almost non deformed slugs laying under steel that they are not traveling too fast. I know several shooters that have one load for steel plates, and another for KD's. I would use the same load for rifle, pistol and all targets engaged. It was good enough to keep me at the top of the pack. You will also find many of the good shooters shot decent loads. The good ones are very good. Back to the revolvers, the Schofield is just much better, having a lower hammer, to be fired with one hand than two. If I were to shoot mounted, I would probably try them, but two handed on the ground, they would be tough. WG Goat Lips made it to Washington? Holy cow that ol' guy gets around! He is truly a great guy, he has been very nice to my family. I bought him a couple ounces of crackle last year because he treats my children so well. I'm starting to consider not selling my CAS guns. I just met a guy getting into it and I am considering dumping my whole collection. two 4.5" blackhawk flat-top 50th anniversary Uberti 1873 Deluxe 357 guncart, holsters, everything keeping the 1897 I'm so torn! But, half the fun is getting the guns set up, maybe I'll just sell? If I get back into it then I just get to play in the shop again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringcheese Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Except for the reloads taking about 99.9% of your time I agree with Flexmoney. Shoot that tool! God help you in par time stages with mandatory reloads On a side note if you where to run a 38/357 or a 44 you could use a speed loader. My dad carries a .44 Desert Eagle mag in his hunting coat and holds it in the side gate on his Super Blackhawk. He strips rounds off the mag right into the chambers and he actually does it pretty quick. If I ever see anyone try this I am going to yell Wyatt Earp every time he finishes a stage. There are no reloads in CAS. Only more guns. 2 pistols, 1 rifle, and a shotty. Shotty is loaded under time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Occasionally a stage will have you load a sixth round into your revolver or an extra round into your rifle after the start in CAS matches. Also, if you jack out a live round with your levergun, you can reload to avoid the miss. I don't think that even before two revolvers were the norm that the Schofields were ever that popular. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Goat Lips made it to Washington? Holy cow that ol' guy gets around! keeping the 1897 I do not know if he has ever been to Washington. I LOVE my '97! It was one of the last ones Miss Kitty of Coyote Cap's Gunworks did, as far as I know. I have it cut down, and have it threaded for choke tubes. I won State Cowboy Trap with it one year. Only guy with a short "main match" gun. One of those things, I wasn't even going to shoot that side match, then the mouths kicked in, the gauntlet was thrown, and a few hours later Occasionally a stage will have you load a sixth round into your revolver or an extra round into your rifle after the start in CAS matches. Also, if you jack out a live round with your levergun, you can reload to avoid the miss. They used to have stages where you would do a full reload on the clock. There used to be matches with rolling tires that had steel in the middle, targets that would come toward you on a wire, all kinds of fun stuff. They used to be the norm, not the exception. The game really changed. But yes on the Schofield, as far as the modern game is concerned. The round was shorter than the Colt too. They did not have the technology to fit the Colt round in the frame, or to make a strong enough frame, or something. I do not recall. WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now