Electronic Scoring System

[jdphotoguy]

I'm really surprised it's taking this long to replace the Palms. I mean they are dinosaurs, cost effective because they are cheap to come buy, but still dinosaurs and becoming harder and harder to come by. Those governing USPSA need to help move things along as it a real pain scoring via paper in this day and age.

[Skydiver]

It looks like Practiscore which runs on iOS and Android devices is making serious inroads for score collection. It's been approved for a Level II last year, and is going to be used at Area 1 this year.

The web based Shoot N' Score It, has recently received USPSA approval for score collection like the Palms. It'll run on any device that let's you get an Internet connection.

I wouldn't be surprised if either one or both of these get official recognition not only for score collection, but results computation within the next 2 years.

[wgnoyes]

Practiscore was used for the Lvl2 matches on iOS (apple) devices. It's still in beta on android and currently has issues, but it's being actively worked on. It appears the platform of choice for the android version is going to be a Barnes & Noble Nook Simple Touch, which is a dedicated e-reader. ($99 list, $79 from Overstock.com) You have to pull out a bag full of systems programmer beads and rattles to root it to run regular android so that you can install and run the practiscore application, but once you get past that hurdle, the Simple Touch seems to be the way to go, from screen visibility in bright sunlight, weight (or lack thereof) of the tablet, and that it'll run all day long and then some on a single charge.

[bbbean]

The web based Shoot N' Score It, has recently received USPSA approval for score collection like the Palms. It'll run on any device that let's you get an Internet connection.

Internet connections can be tricky or slow on some ranges. There's a lot to be said for a dedicated app on a mobile device that doesn't require external connections.

[wgnoyes]

I know. I don't think I would risk it if the only path was entirely web-based. They're looking for sponsorship and donations to do mobile device apps that don't need an internet connection.

[Skydiver]

Practiscore was used for the Lvl2 matches on iOS (apple) devices. It's still in beta on android and currently has issues, but it's being actively worked on. It appears the platform of choice for the android version is going to be a Barnes & Noble Nook Simple Touch, which is a dedicated e-reader. ($99 list, $79 from Overstock.com) You have to pull out a bag full of systems programmer beads and rattles to root it to run regular android so that you can install and run the practiscore application, but once you get past that hurdle, the Simple Touch seems to be the way to go, from screen visibility in bright sunlight, weight (or lack thereof) of the tablet, and that it'll run all day long and then some on a single charge.

I tried out a B&N Nook Simple Touch for today's match. It couldn't handle having a couple of rain drops on the touch surface (all input was just being ignored until the face was dried off), and putting it inside a ziplock bag was a non-starter because it could detect taps on big surfaces, but it quickly got confused when hitting small targets. But the big downside for us was that it couldn't keep up with a RO calling up scores. The UI refresh for eInk was just way too slow for scores being called out at a cadence of about a hit every second, particularly for 2 Alpha calls.

On the up side, the screen readability is amazing, and it is infinitely faster than the Gen1 Nook. I picked up this unit primarily for scoring was going to keep using my older Gen1 Nook for personal reading, but I think I'll be using this Nook Simple Touch more for reading.

[wgnoyes]

Tell them to slow down and specifically call out "two alpha" and the pad operator repeats back "two alpha", instead of the now-familiar shortcut of "two" "two" "two", etc. They should be doing that anyway to make sure everything gets written down. We just scored 105 shooters times 6 stages at cherokee gun club a week ago entirely on PS on nooks and there was no problem keeping up because we followed that cadence. Now the rain issue is interesting, and I haven't tried one in a zip lock bag yet. I also don't know if there is an all-encompassing weather-resistant case for a nook. I would guess not; we're probably the only people on earth who would actually want to stand out in a driving rainstorm operating a nook e-reader!

[SteveT-NV]

Practiscore was used for the Lvl2 matches on iOS (apple) devices. It's still in beta on android and currently has issues, but it's being actively worked on. It appears the platform of choice for the android version is going to be a Barnes & Noble Nook Simple Touch, which is a dedicated e-reader. ($99 list, $79 from Overstock.com) You have to pull out a bag full of systems programmer beads and rattles to root it to run regular android so that you can install and run the practiscore application, but once you get past that hurdle, the Simple Touch seems to be the way to go, from screen visibility in bright sunlight, weight (or lack thereof) of the tablet, and that it'll run all day long and then some on a single charge.

I tried out a B&N Nook Simple Touch for today's match. It couldn't handle having a couple of rain drops on the touch surface (all input was just being ignored until the face was dried off), and putting it inside a ziplock bag was a non-starter because it could detect taps on big surfaces, but it quickly got confused when hitting small targets. But the big downside for us was that it couldn't keep up with a RO calling up scores. The UI refresh for eInk was just way too slow for scores being called out at a cadence of about a hit every second, particularly for 2 Alpha calls.

On the up side, the screen readability is amazing, and it is infinitely faster than the Gen1 Nook. I picked up this unit primarily for scoring was going to keep using my older Gen1 Nook for personal reading, but I think I'll be using this Nook Simple Touch more for reading.

No problems rooting the Nook I assume? For those using the Kindle Fire. Is it faster than the Nook Simple Touch?

[jcwren]

I just emailed the people at iLoc about this case: http://www.ilocstore.com/collections/all/products/iloc-nook-simple-touch-case-set-of-2

Their reply: "It is operable but can be a bit touchy in steady rain hitting it directly."

Maybe with this case, and a simple mechanical shield, we can make this work.

--jc

Edited March 19, 2012 by jcwren

[jcwren]

Practiscore was used for the Lvl2 matches on iOS (apple) devices. It's still in beta on android and currently has issues, but it's being actively worked on. It appears the platform of choice for the android version is going to be a Barnes & Noble Nook Simple Touch, which is a dedicated e-reader. ($99 list, $79 from Overstock.com) You have to pull out a bag full of systems programmer beads and rattles to root it to run regular android so that you can install and run the practiscore application, but once you get past that hurdle, the Simple Touch seems to be the way to go, from screen visibility in bright sunlight, weight (or lack thereof) of the tablet, and that it'll run all day long and then some on a single charge.

I tried out a B&N Nook Simple Touch for today's match. It couldn't handle having a couple of rain drops on the touch surface (all input was just being ignored until the face was dried off), and putting it inside a ziplock bag was a non-starter because it could detect taps on big surfaces, but it quickly got confused when hitting small targets. But the big downside for us was that it couldn't keep up with a RO calling up scores. The UI refresh for eInk was just way too slow for scores being called out at a cadence of about a hit every second, particularly for 2 Alpha calls.

On the up side, the screen readability is amazing, and it is infinitely faster than the Gen1 Nook. I picked up this unit primarily for scoring was going to keep using my older Gen1 Nook for personal reading, but I think I'll be using this Nook Simple Touch more for reading.

No problems rooting the Nook I assume? For those using the Kindle Fire. Is it faster than the Nook Simple Touch?

Yes, the Kindle Fire is much faster, as it's got more horsepower, but more importantly, a conventional display. eInk is slow, it's just a given of the technology, and what makes it so power efficient.

The downside is that the Fire, like just about anything with a color display and high-gloss glass is that it's not very readable in sunlight. In an indoor range, it's stellar. It's also more expensive to replace when you drop it on concrete (@burningsquirrels).

Since the indoor ranges we shoot at don't have plated walls, we have to configure our targets up against the backstop, for the most part. For scoring, I usually head down range and go *behind* the targets, following the RO. The indoor ranges we shoot in all have good lighting at the backstop, and plus you have the advantage that the RO is calling *to* you, instead of you being behind him.

Of course, I'm probably increasing my lead levels, but hey, we all gotta go sometime.

--jc

Edited March 19, 2012 by jcwren

[Skydiver]

Tell them to slow down and specifically call out "two alpha" and the pad operator repeats back "two alpha", instead of the now-familiar shortcut of "two" "two" "two", etc. They should be doing that anyway to make sure everything gets written down. We just scored 105 shooters times 6 stages at cherokee gun club a week ago entirely on PS on nooks and there was no problem keeping up because we followed that cadence. Now the rain issue is interesting, and I haven't tried one in a zip lock bag yet. I also don't know if there is an all-encompassing weather-resistant case for a nook. I would guess not; we're probably the only people on earth who would actually want to stand out in a driving rainstorm operating a nook e-reader!

Yup, the operator was calling back the scores as per standard operating procedure.

It may have been my critical eye, but I could notice that RO / Assistant RO pair were going at a slower pace when I handed them the Nook as compared to earlier when they were using a Droid. (The battery on my Droid was dying.) I was expecting to go at the same pace or faster because of the larger screen and bigger hit targets. Perhaps the rain and cold wasn't helping matters.

I didn't get to observe a RO / Assistant RO pair going around with an iPhone, but the reports I got from that squad was that when the battery started going down with their Droid and they swapped to an iPhone, the scoring was a little faster because the UI was better.

[Alan Adamson]

Tell them to slow down and specifically call out "two alpha" and the pad operator repeats back "two alpha", instead of the now-familiar shortcut of "two" "two" "two", etc. They should be doing that anyway to make sure everything gets written down. We just scored 105 shooters times 6 stages at cherokee gun club a week ago entirely on PS on nooks and there was no problem keeping up because we followed that cadence. Now the rain issue is interesting, and I haven't tried one in a zip lock bag yet. I also don't know if there is an all-encompassing weather-resistant case for a nook. I would guess not; we're probably the only people on earth who would actually want to stand out in a driving rainstorm operating a nook e-reader!

Yup, the operator was calling back the scores as per standard operating procedure.

It may have been my critical eye, but I could notice that RO / Assistant RO pair were going at a slower pace when I handed them the Nook as compared to earlier when they were using a Droid. (The battery on my Droid was dying.) I was expecting to go at the same pace or faster because of the larger screen and bigger hit targets. Perhaps the rain and cold wasn't helping matters.

I didn't get to observe a RO / Assistant RO pair going around with an iPhone, but the reports I got from that squad was that when the battery started going down with their Droid and they swapped to an iPhone, the scoring was a little faster because the UI was better.

Here's a tip with the NOOK's, they will function at a much faster rate than their screen refresh, so don't wait for it. As you get the RO call, touch the screen/target score areas, then on your callback, refer to what it registered. We shot an 8 hit per target stage a few weeks ago, and you can nail, as fast as you want, the screen area for the hits and it would count them just as fast as you pressed.... You couldn't see it until you moved to another area (e.g. 7A, 1C), but they all registered and once you got the hang of it, I could be *as* fast as the RO with no issues....

There is ONE FUNDAMENTAL LEARNING HOWEVER, and this has nothing to do with the refresh rate. The scoring RO *HAS* to *ONLY* call back what he reads from the device, NOT what he heard... There is a subtle difference and it will bite you in the butt if you just call back what you hear, without verifying what you touched.

Once you have it down however, it's pure magic, how much time/effort this system can save you. And compared to the PALM.... Well, there simply is no comparison...

Alan

Edited March 19, 2012 by Alan Adamson

[Skydiver]

I just emailed the people at iLoc about this case: http://www.ilocstore...h-case-set-of-2

Their reply: "It is operable but can be a bit touchy in steady rain hitting it directly."

Maybe with this case, and a simple mechanical shield, we can make this work.

--jc

Thanks for the advise about the case!

[Skydiver]

Deleting double post...

Edited March 19, 2012 by Skydiver

[Skydiver]

Here's a tip with the NOOK's, they will function at a much faster rate than their screen refresh, so don't wait for it. As you get the RO call, touch the screen/target score areas, then on your callback, refer to what it registered. WE shot an 8 hit per target stage a few weeks ago, and you can nail as fast as you want the screen are for the hits and it would count them just as fast as you pressed.... You couldn't see it until you moved to the other area (e.g. 7A, 1C), but they all registered and once you got the hang of it, I could be *as* fast as the RO with no issues....

There is ONE FUNDAMENTAL LEARNING HOWEVER, and this has nothing to do with the refresh rate. The scoring RO *HAS* to *ONLY* call back what he reads from the device, NOT what he heard... There is a subtle difference and it will bite you in the butt if you just call back what you hear, without verifying what you touched.

Once you have it down however, it's pure magic, how much time/effort this system can save you. And compared to the PALM.... Well, there simply is no comparison...

Alan

Thanks! That is great advice.

[Skydiver]

No problems rooting the Nook I assume?

No real problems. The major problems I had were in my mind and self-made. The minor problems I dealt with was not knowing how to get Practiscore installed on the Nook after I rooted it.

I didn't want to be a script kiddie and just follow the instructions. I wanted to understand what I was doing and why. It took about 6 times longer than it should have. If I just followed the instructions and not cared about the how's and why's. I would have been up and running with a rooted Nook in about 20 minutes rather than 2 hours.

Since I was getting the expected issues with Google Market not working during the first 24 hours, I couldn't find any apps to transfer the PractiScore .APK to the device. The default email client wouldn't give me an option to install the .APK. Only option was to "Preview" it, and the mail app would then promptly crash. The installed browsers, both the default and mini-Opera, couldn't view Practiscore.com. I ended up downloading and installing the Android SDK to my machine, and using 'adb push' to copy the .APK into the device. (As noted in one of the Nooter forums, 'adb install' supposedly doesn't work with non-Market apps even after checking the checkbox that allows non-Market apps.)

[wgnoyes]

Well, let's be honest, and I'm saying this with 35 years data processing experience: the rooting process is a CF; it was daunting even to me and I don't think the average non-computer-tech shooter has a prayer doing it.

I did the process recommended to me by Ken Norton of Practiscore. It got me a running nook, but there were a couple of places where you just had to keep poking at it and/or just restart the device, so it was iffy at best.

I looked at another procedure used by people around here and thought "what the hell is all this", and frankly went off about it to anyone who would listen. Then I went back and read the process again REALLY carefully (again: average non-computer person = no chance in hell) and decided okay, I want to run the same thing everyone else around me is running, so I regenned. This was a much cleaner process, and you ended up with a device where the market was working immediately. (I STILL don't understand why youtube should have anything to do with it!) The result was cosmetically much more ugly, however, and being absolutely brand-damn new to android, it took awhile to figure out and render into something that just didn't look flat out embarrassing. Plus the original nook e-reader side of the machine is still intact and working.

We used the procedure located here, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1346748 I used the beta5-2 XUFullTouch-PART-1-START and beta5-1 XWUMFTouch-PART-2-END files.

This went pretty straight forward, but like everyone else who knows what they're doing, they make presumptions about assumed knowledge.

• (FC) means Force Close. What you'll see when you open GMail is that it will give a retry message. Keep doing this until the GMail program displays the "Loading conversations" dialog (or something like that, but it's clear that it's trying to sync something) and then exits almost immediately back to the home page. I was expecting an actual Force Close dialog, where the OS tells you that it's exited unexpectedly and has a Yes/No dialog box up. I don't know how much experience you've had with Android, so I may be telling you something you already know.
  
• To install a non-market application (like PractiScore), you'll need to go into the NookColor Application (it's provided as part of the root kit). Although the "Allow Non-Market Apps" checkbox is already checked, you'll need to un-check it then re-check it for it to work.
  
• The web browser in this build doesn't work. As soon as you type a key in the URL box, the browser will exit. This isn't really much of a problem at the moment, and it'll be fixed in another build, but what it does mean is that you can't go straight to the PractiScore website to download the application. What I did was install DropBox from the market, use my PC to put a copy of PractiScore in DropBox, then use DropBox on the Nook to launch it. You could alternatively install AndExplorer or some other application that lets you browse the file system, put the application on the SD card, then install from the SD card.
  

My opinion, this procedure (and anything like it) assume you know everything already. These need to be re-written to a simple "you need this, this, and that, step one do this, step two do that", with plenty of screen prints and photographs illustrating what is being done.

Edited March 20, 2012 by wgnoyes

[sperman]

There are several things about my Android phone that I don't like. Like Bill, I'm pretty fluent with computers and electronic devices. Rooting the phone is a bit of a PITA, but it can be done. Actually making changes to the OS is much more complicated and I finally gave up. I've got better things to do than fight the software on my phone.

I appreciate Bill and others taking the time to get all of this sorted out. I was at the Cherokee match where BIll and Alan rolled out Practiscore. There are a few minor things that could be improved, but overall the scoring system was straightforward and easy to use. The unit is a bit slow to respond. If you accidentally click the wrong button it can take a couple of seconds to get back to where you want to be. The RO can definitely call out scores and get the response from the Droid RO faster than they can be typed in. I solved that problem by not calling back the score until the system caught up. I don't think it had much impact on the overall time of the match.

I do wish the page would scroll, when you had more than 1 pages worth of targets on a stage.

[wgnoyes]

Don't give me credit for Cherokee's good work, that was entirely Chris Wren and Alan Adamson. I was just up there to learn and observe.

[Skydiver]

I do wish the page would scroll, when you had more than 1 pages worth of targets on a stage.

This is where the Nook Simple Touch shines. Pressing the side buttons scrolls the page up and down. No need to worry about the scroll gesture being interpreted as a tap in a score box.

[Skydiver]

This is the much simpler rooting instructions that I felt would have gotten me a rooted Nook in about 20 minutes: http://forum.xda-dev...d.php?t=1343143

Mark R referred to it in his post: http://www.brianenos...dpost&p=1638567

There are a couple of YouTube videos also featuring that procedure.

As I said, though, the issue for me was that the recipe there never truly explains what is happening in the background, and what your options are to undo the rooting should you wish to do so.

Thanks for posting Ken's instructions. I should have thought of Dropbox to attempt to move the .APK over from my machine to the Nook.

A tip for others with a rooted Nook. If you want a functional web browser, run the Amazon app store, find the Opera Mobile Web browser and install it. It's free.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Skydiver

[sperman]

I do wish the page would scroll, when you had more than 1 pages worth of targets on a stage.

This is where the Nook Simple Touch shines. Pressing the side buttons scrolls the page up and down. No need to worry about the scroll gesture being interpreted as a tap in a score box.

I didn't have a problem with it interpreting the tap as an entry. It just wouldn't srcoll. It was either on page 1 or page 2. I wanted to see the bottom half of page one and the top half of page 2 (which had 2 targets).

[Skydiver]

I do wish the page would scroll, when you had more than 1 pages worth of targets on a stage.

This is where the Nook Simple Touch shines. Pressing the side buttons scrolls the page up and down. No need to worry about the scroll gesture being interpreted as a tap in a score box.

I didn't have a problem with it interpreting the tap as an entry. It just wouldn't srcoll. It was either on page 1 or page 2. I wanted to see the bottom half of page one and the top half of page 2 (which had 2 targets).

Oh, I see what you mean. It's interesting that on the Nook it shows page 1 or page 2 while trying to scroll. I can't seem to get it to show the bottom part of 1, and the top half of 2. On my G2 phone, it actually scrolls so I can see the bottom part of 1 and top part of 2.

Looks like another reason why Apple likes to have tight control over how UI looks and feels: to provide a consistent user experience.