long-gunning on the move

[ErikW]

When I first started 3 gunning I tried shooting on the move and paid a heavy price. I learned it's a whole different animal than pistol shooting, which is isolated out at the end of your shock-absorbing arms. The long gun, OTOH, rests against your shoulder and cheek, a moves around a whole lot more. Bennie Cooley said something about it at his class, IIRC, but I don't remember exactly what. (I'm a poor student.)

At the recent SMM3G, I witnessed a lot of successful shotgunning on the move. I even did some myself. I seem to keep the butt against my arm, not in my shoulder pocket when I do this. It also seems I hold it very loosely, more out and away from my body, face barely touching, until just before taking the shot.

My general idea with the SG is to get planted and shoot from a stable position, then reload while walking. But I've encountered a few courses that demand shooting on the move; you will clearly be seconds behind if you don't.

So, what are your thoughts on shooting the long guns while moving? Is rifle any different from shotgun?

[kurtm]

Feet and knees are the tread and road wheels, from the hips up are the turret of the system. Amazing moving and shooting can be done with both rifle and shotgun, if you divorce the lower part from the upper part. Think M1 Abrams and glide while shooting. If you get good at this then go back and try the pistol again....WOW it will be sooooo much better. The biggest draw back most people have is they want to be WAY to presice with the rifle/carbine sight alignment. The A zone is a BIG area and if the sight is "dancing" within that area it's still an A. Accept the movement and only alow it to happen in X amount of area. One day of shoot while moving will really increase your skill level in this reguard. Shotguns are quite a bit easier as you have a bit of "pattern" to help. By the way I find all of this WAY easier if you have kind of a arms up stance. Elbows down seems to accentuate the up down and side to side movement of your moving gait, for me anyway! KURTM

[Bronco]

Shotgun on the move is a lot easier for me than rifle. Unless the rifle target is just off the end of the barrel I'd better stop and take it. The sad part is watching some one like Jerry Miculek shoot on the move and try to duplicate it. I watched him shoot stage 5 and the 8 ( I think ) close paper he took on the move it was like his upper torso was disconnected from his lower. The rifle didn't move other than to engage the next target. He shot it in 56 sec. as I recall. To bad it got thrown out.

[kurtm]

The coolest part of shooting stage 5, aside from going first in squade 13, was watching Ed Rhodes and Blain west in He Man do the same thing as Jerry, shoot while moving with those big .308s. My time on the "bonus stage" was just slightly longer than Jerry's, 62.15 but with Iron sights I figured that wasn't so bad. Jerry sure showes the " stable upper platform ". We all shot the bonus stage late in the day, For iron sights, it was the pits standing in the APC ( back light). For scopes the far west targets were straight into the sun.....something for everyone Bronco, you stayed at the range too late!!! We all should have been drinkig beer by then!!! KURTM

[PacMan]

I did learned a very valuable lesson at the last SMM3G - If you don't know how to shoot on the move, you'll be really, really behind (a few seconds = eternity). I tried my best to shoot on the move but was not very successful. Missed three clays that I had to reload for at Stage 4. Another angle to add to my fun time at the range

[George]

. By the way I find all of this WAY easier if you have kind of a arms up stance. Elbows down seems to accentuate the up down and side to side movement of your moving gait, for me anyway!

I haven't really thought about the elbows thing before, but IMO, Kurt is right, elbows up, and away is just plain easier (for me anyway). I have been using my treadmill to dry fire long guns and pea shooters while I get in some cardio and it is making a big difference. I used to stand and shoot a lot with the long guns, now I find myself shooting on the move a lot more, sometimes without even thinking about it. The rolling glide gait is also a really big part of doing it accurately.

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Regards.

[DogmaDog]

Thread drift, but

George, that treadmill idea is AWESOME.

My wife just bought one despite my discouragement (why not just go walk around outside???), but since I can't go walking around outside with a gun, dry firing on the treadmill will be great for training shooting while moving.

Thanks for the tip!

DogmaDog

[George]

Dry firing on a treadmill has some oddness to it in that you really can't change direction much while walking. Because of that limitation it is best to focus on things like a smooth gait and trigger control as opposed to wide angle target transitions.

But yeah, it is an awesome way to get better at shootin' on the move and it makes exercising a lot more interesting.

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Regards,

[rhino]

By the way I find all of this WAY easier if you have kind of a arms up stance. Elbows down seems to accentuate the up down and side to side movement of your moving gait, for me anyway! KURTM

I know I'm just a rube ... a mere bumpkin in this arena, but I'm the opposite. I move a lot better with my elbows "down" like I'm shooting a really long handgun that happens to mount on my chest/shoulder too.

[kurtm]

Tomato, Tomahto,.... Patato, Patahto... It's all outcome based shooting. If it makes you feel good it must be right. If it makes the hits it must be even righter (is that a word??). It's all in the "for me anyway" The only thing I see with the "elbones" ( word?) locked down is that you have to shift your whole body to engage targets on the opposite sides of the range, instead of just pivoting at the hips to engage these targets while still moving forward. KURTM

[rhino]

OKay ... that might be a big difference for me. I try not to twist too much at the waist because of back injuries/surgeries. I don't have as much range of motion as I did before, and I probably didn't have that much before! So my "turret" has to go lower ...

But like you say ... it's in the results. You do it far faster and more accurately than I, so we'll listen to you.

[Chris]

http://www.chris-s.com/gallery/view_photo....gun&id=DSC_0394

Thats me shooting on the move. I guess I do it with my arms down, but it seems to work for me. I keep my knees really bent and do that "crouch walk" thing.

[kurtm]

Chris:

I would kind of consider that to be arms out. The elbows down I'm thinking of is the straight down, locked into the sides type of thing that many schools are now teaching to "operators". I usually run with the old arms down at about 30 degrees from the shoulder, not straight out to the sides. KURT

[rhino]

I would kind of consider that to be arms out. The elbows down I'm thinking of is the straight down, locked into the sides type of thing that many schools are now teaching to "operators". I usually run with the old arms down at about 30 degrees from the shoulder, not straight out to the sides.

Well that changes everything, Mr. M! That's how I shoot and I consider it "elbows down!"

When I think of "arms out," I think of the classic rifle and shotgun shooting stance where the upper arm on the strong side is horizontal!

Now that you clarified that "elbows down" means with the elbows locked into the body, then I can say I defintely do not do that.

I just sort of let my upper arms hang in a comfy position ... usually that's with my upper arms more or less vertical.