Mag Setup for Open

[Rob Tompkins]

As a low C limited and U Open shooter all I can say is I carry enough on the belt to cover the planned reloads and one extra in case I have to clear a failure or fumble a reload and drop the mag. That typically means one in the gun and 2 or 3 on the belt. If a big stick lets me go with no reloads or gets me to a better reload point with a few extra rounds I'll start with that. Otherwise I'll only use 140's. Most of the time the 170 stays in the bag.

I have not done timing drills to see if reloading with a 170 is slower/faster then a 140, but I know I have not come across a stage that would make sense starting with a 140 then reloading a 170 so I have not put effort into it.

YMMV

[Supermoto]

I have not done timing drills to see if reloading with a 170 is slower/faster then a 140, but I know I have not come across a stage that would make sense starting with a 140 then reloading a 170 so I have not put effort into it.

YMMV

I usually load to the 170 when a stage requires a reload. It will come down to stage design, but around here, we seem to get a couple arrays, then good amount of movement, then a whole lot of shooting. So its faster and safer to load to a 170 and not have to break the rhythm at the end. Although I load my 140s much faster than 170s, you should practice both on the move

[Rob Tompkins]

I have not done timing drills to see if reloading with a 170 is slower/faster then a 140, but I know I have not come across a stage that would make sense starting with a 140 then reloading a 170 so I have not put effort into it.

YMMV

I usually load to the 170 when a stage requires a reload. It will come down to stage design, but around here, we seem to get a couple arrays, then good amount of movement, then a whole lot of shooting. So its faster and safer to load to a 170 and not have to break the rhythm at the end. Although I load my 140s much faster than 170s, you should practice both on the move

Good point, I can see a stage with 10-12 shots up front then movement then a big array of steel like a texas star, plate rack, and a bunch of poppers. If I thought I needed the big stick, then I'd have to take an extra 1/2 sec and really watch the 170 into the mag well.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Rob Tompkins

[larry cazes]

I believe in consistency and prefer to practice with one instead of multiple setups. It is sometimes advantageous based on stage design to start with a 170 and that is of course worst case so why practice with anything else. Do you really think there is ONE best way? I prefer not to play "follow the leader" because I enjoy figuring out what works best for me. Copying someone else would take away most of the fun. As to the fact that Xre is a GM and I am not....Should we now adopt the policy of a hierarchy of posts based on classifications? Should I stop participating in a thread as soon as a M or GM posts? Excuse me for participating where the great Bart and Xre have differing opinions of mine. I think Ill just go and practice my slow reloads now.........I expected better really.

You missed something huge there Larry. You made an absolute statement that starting with a 140 was a "distinct disadvantage". You didn't say that something else worked better for you, or was your preference, you simply said A is better than B. That obviously isn't the case, and that was what I was pointing out.

Further, you replied to my post, which was simply agreeing with XRe. You chose to quote both if us, and said we were wrong...using an absolute. That's why I pointed out that a B telling a GM that he's wrong, in an absolute sense, is kind of silly. If you'd said "this works better for me"....rock on, glad you're happy with it. R,

Well I guess The forum here has reached the point where only GMs can post opinions without being flamed. Very sad really.

[G-ManBart]

Well I guess The forum here has reached the point where only GMs can post opinions without being flamed. Very sad really.

It's not that at all. You didn't state it as an opinion, you stated it as a fact ("a distinct disadvantage")...very different things.

Hey, it was your decision to quote me (and Dave) and said we were wrong, so there's no need to get all snippy when I don't agree.

Ever wonder why so many folks say "Oh, I use 140s for classifiers"? It's because, for most, the gun handles better, reloads easier, transitions faster, etc. If using 170s made the gun shoot better/handle better/reload as easy/transition as fast, people would regularly use them for classifiers as well...but most don't.

On the clock, 170s reload slower, give more opportunity to fumble, and transition slower for me. It's not a huge difference, but it all adds up. That might change as I get better, but based on what folks who are a lot better than me are doing, I'm not betting on it. R,

[Ming the Merciless]

I always use 170 mags unless I have to go prone or start from something like a drawer or box. I reload the 170's just as well as I do the 140's (no, I'm not slow) and I really don't think the extra 8 rounds in the 170 is going to slow my transitions down.

When you "know" maybe things will appear differently?

So you've actually timed a bunch of reloads (live fire) with 140s and 170s and averaged them out to know there's no difference?

I can reload 170s just fine, but the timer tells me there's a difference compared with 140s.

I can shoot the gun with 31 or 32 rounds in it just fine (well, it starts with that many), but the timer and hits (what sometimes gets overlooked) show a slight difference when I cut that in half (give or take). I spent something like 8 range sessions and thousands of rounds last year doing nothing but a series of two transition drills, so I'm working off data (for me anyway), not feelings. Maybe the results would be different for you, but many folks aren't using real numbers to back up their opinions. R,

Crikey, you remind me of Ms. Babcock, my old english teacher!

Yes, I've timed many, many reloads with both 140s and 170s and for me there was no practical difference. As far as transitions, yes I've timed and scored a lot transition drills and no, an extra 8 rounds of ammo doesn't make any practical difference for me.

If you want to argue semantics, have fun, but I am going to take the advice of your sig line.

[G-ManBart]

Yes, I've timed many, many reloads with both 140s and 170s and for me there was no practical difference. As far as transitions, yes I've timed and scored a lot transition drills and no, an extra 8 rounds of ammo doesn't make any practical difference for me.

If you want to argue semantics, have fun, but I am going to take the advice of your sig line.

Ah, "no practical difference"....the fancy way of saying there really is a difference, but you don't feel it's important.

As to the last part, go read the forum guidelines...that's uncalled for, and one post to you is hardly an argument. R,

[AWLAZS]

I always start with the mag that makes sense for my stage plan. Like supermoto if I am planning on a reload after ten shots its a 140 stage start. I may load to a big stick if the stage requires it. I may load to a 140.

Its not much different then saying you always shoot targets right to left. Sometimes it does not make sense.

I carry all 140 mags on my belt and add 170's in when I see they are required. I have 3 170 mags and 10 140 mags so I am not in a rush to load them.

[Sarge]

I believe in consistency and prefer to practice with one instead of multiple setups. It is sometimes advantageous based on stage design to start with a 170 and that is of course worst case so why practice with anything else. Do you really think there is ONE best way? I prefer not to play "follow the leader" because I enjoy figuring out what works best for me. Copying someone else would take away most of the fun. As to the fact that Xre is a GM and I am not....Should we now adopt the policy of a hierarchy of posts based on classifications? Should I stop participating in a thread as soon as a M or GM posts? Excuse me for participating where the great Bart and Xre have differing opinions of mine. I think Ill just go and practice my slow reloads now.........I expected better really.

You missed something huge there Larry. You made an absolute statement that starting with a 140 was a "distinct disadvantage". You didn't say that something else worked better for you, or was your preference, you simply said A is better than B. That obviously isn't the case, and that was what I was pointing out.

Further, you replied to my post, which was simply agreeing with XRe. You chose to quote both if us, and said we were wrong...using an absolute. That's why I pointed out that a B telling a GM that he's wrong, in an absolute sense, is kind of silly. If you'd said "this works better for me"....rock on, glad you're happy with it. R,

Well I guess The forum here has reached the point where only GMs can post opinions without being flamed. Very sad really.

You're learning.

[AWLAZS]

Larry, knowing whats best for you is important. So is being able to listen to other people GM or D and deciding if it makes sense to you. If it works great you may have just cleared a huge hurdle. If it doesn't well keep looking.

Bart and Xre both do a great job explaining things. Mentioning a shooters classification has nothing to do with going against the offered opinion but gives credibility to the person offering the opinion.