How to bell a rifle case mouth?

[Popsmoke]

I shoot flat base bullets in 223, how can I get a bell in the case mouth to get the bullet started?

This is on a 550 or a 650 with the Dillon powder die, it doesn't bell rifle cases.

I've been just setting the bullets and guiding them into the seater die, from time to time I clean out the seater die with a Q-Tip and get alot of copper curls.

I can live with this, the accuracy is good, but it doesn't seem like an elegant or correct solution.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Popsmoke

[rsrocket1]

You could use a Lee Universal Case Expanding die #90798, but then you'd also need a .223 crimp die #90817 and you'll run out of stations on a 550, but you'll be OK on a 650. You don't need to crimp the case onto the bullet, just take the bell out.

[Gatekeeper]

Are you chamfering the inside of the case mouth?

I've never needed to bell any rifle rounds, just de-burr the outside of the neck and chamfer the inside

[Corey]

light chamfer on the inside of the case mouth should be all that necessary, especially if you shoot a boattail bullet. flat bases are not quite as easy but still work just fine with a light inside chamfer

[Popsmoke]

I dont champfer, just clean and reload. I primarily shoot flat base, I found I get better accuracy than a boat tail.

I was hoping there was some sort of Dillon powder die that bells case mouths.

Thanks

[fueddy]

Dillion doesn't have anything that will bell rifle brass. I've never had a problem with 308 or 223. Just load and go

[Graham Smith]

Just a thought... If you pre-process your brass (resize, trim, etc) before you start to load, you could put that Lee expanding die in as the first stage of your loading.

[Popsmoke]

Graham - thats not a bad idea, but the bell would be taken out with the resizing die on 550 press, - I'd have to do it on the 5 station press and leave out the powder check die.

I process in 3 steps -

Step one: deprime dirty brass with a generic decapping die

Step two: clean with stainless steel media.

Step three: proceed as usual with loading clean brass.

[jmurch]

+1 on chamfer. Giraud or Gracey.

Jeff

[blkbrd]

You are trimming correct? If not things can get interesting as it is amazing how much rifle brass can grow.

The Giraud trimmer is the best I have used and makes case prep a breeze.

A good inside chamfer is all thats needed for flat base or boat tails.

[Erik S.]

+1 for chamfering inside of the neck, but this shouldn't be necessary EVERY time you reload the brass. As the neck elongates from repeated sizing and you trim, the chamfer will get cut off and you'll need to re-do it. But, over chamfering causes the end of the neck to get very thin and little brass rings will start coming off which will shorten your brass.

[Graham Smith]

Graham - thats not a bad idea, but the bell would be taken out with the resizing die on 550 press

I was suggesting that you completely resize and deprime the cases before you start reloading. That way, the first stage on the 550 could be a die to bell the case mouth.

Or, make belling the case mouth a part of the pre-processing. In any case, you would not be sizing the case on the 550 during the loading at all.

[gohuskers]

I know you're using flat based bullets now but is there any reason you can't use boat tail bullets? That's all I will order to avoid this problem.

[Popsmoke]

Graham - I didnt understand your first reply, thanks, it makes sense but not sure if I want to go through that much of a process.

GoHuskers - For 55 grain bullets: I like flat based 223 because I found they are ALOT more accurate at up to 200 yds. I have not tried them any farther. I get about 1-1.5 MOA on my AR with them. I cant find boat tails that shoot that well, and that inlcudes Sierrra 55's and other variety's.

[gohuskers]

Graham - I didnt understand your first reply, thanks, it makes sense but not sure if I want to go through that much of a process.

GoHuskers - For 55 grain bullets: I like flat based 223 because I found they are ALOT more accurate at up to 200 yds. I have not tried them any farther. I get about 1-1.5 MOA on my AR with them. I cant find boat tails that shoot that well, and that inlcudes Sierrra 55's and other variety's.

I understand - have you tried the Hornady 55s? Those seem to have real good accuracy - i'm not even talking about the Vmax but the Hornady bulk bullets. They're hard to find but really consistent and accuracte from my view.

[Corey]

by basic design, flat base bullets will give you better results at closer distances, they are just easier to get to shoot. They lose their accuracy at distance where the boat tail bullets have the edge.

[Erik S.]

The higher the BC, the better they'll do at long distance. I guess it just depends on what your application is. I've told the story before about finding a load that consistently shot .25-.30 groups at 100 but opened up to 1+MOA at 600-1000yds. Needless to say, my current load shoots .5MOA at 100 and carries that out to as far as I can control the trigger. I have had several 5" groups at 700yds and can usually hold 10" at 1000 under no-wind conditions. If I was shooting 100yds comps for groups, I would stick with my original load. For an all around best performing round, I'll take the slight loss at 100 in exchange for good performance no matter what the distance.

This was also done with the SAME bullet ... 175SMK in my .308. I just adjusted the powder charge.

FWIW

[Dan Sierpina]

Chamfering the case mouth is the standard process, and works fine with flat base bullets, without expansion. If you're dead set to expand the case mouth on a bottleneck case, Lyman M dies are for loading cast bullets, and will only expand a short length of case neck. Of course you will have to run it through a crimp die to remove the expansion.

[KevenW]

i'm putting my new 550 together right now and watching vids on youtube to help me along the way. I kept seeing guys put that belling powder die in and mine didnt look anything like that. blew my mind! lol I was thnking they sent me the wrong die or something. then i went to dillons site and looked up the powder die for 223 and saw that it has an A in front of the caliber and my powder funnel has an A on it so I knew it was the right one. I don't understand why they don't make it bell the case. Makes no sense really. Glad I found this post. Just what I was looking for. Guess I might find me a lee die or something to replace it if I have any problems with it.

[KevenW]

Just found this on another post. Is this right? If so, how does it resize the neck and do this at that same time?

"The powder die on a 223 does not bell the case mouth. The depriming pin shaft opens up the case mouth and the powder die simply holds the case for adding the powder."

Edited February 19, 2011 by KevenW

[DennisJ]

Pop',I understand your question and it really is a logical one but the truth is belling a rifle case mouth when loading jacketed bullets just isn't necessary. A simple chamfer and you are set to begin seating bullets.

Lyman sells a case belling/flaring die called an 'M' die that is primarily used when loading cast bullets to avoid shaving lead.

Belling case case mouths when loading pistol cases is SOP but not necessary in bottleneck rifle catridges.

Straightwall rifle cartridges such as the 45/70 require belling but please don't confuse the two types of brass

Good shooting, Dennis

Edited February 24, 2011 by DennisJ