Ron Ankeny Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I was kicking around over at the 1911 forum and some guy mentioned that an IDPA club was requiring competitors to have a valid carry permit. I never thought of it before, but we shoot at a public range. If a shooter showed up without a permit they would technically be in violation of the law for carrying concealed between the LAMR command and the buzzer. I know it seems silly and I know such nonsense would not be pursued here. But I wonder, is this something clubs should be thinking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 If the public range is private property you shouldn't have a problem. But as you mentioned it seems highly unlikely that officers would show up at a club match and start busting shooters who were carrying concealed on the firing line. I wonder if the club that required CCW's was more interested in promoting some sort of "this is real tactical training" kind of agenda as opposed to addressing a legal concern. -Larry Drake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 Actually, our range is public property owned by the town, and all municipal and state ordinances apply. That way, the local law enforcement officers can routinely patrol the area and enforce littering, destruction of public property, open container, and so on. It's no big deal, unless some weenie makes it a big deal. The question came up on the 1911 Forum because one of the posters thought IDPA was considering adding some comments to their rulebook to the effect that shooting from concealment must be conducted in accordance with local laws. Probably just a bunch of baloney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 It is just incredible, what some people try to do. They go to the edge of the cliff and aren't happy unless they fall over. I know lots of shooters who do not have CHL, nor feel the need to get one. What kind of person would require a CHL to shoot in a match that almost everyone recognizes is a game. I shot IPSC from 1978 to 1986 and IDPA from 1998 to present and haven't shot in a match yet that was anything like a real shootout. Noone was shooting back!!!! Why can't they just just enjoy it for what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 tightloop wrote: Why can't they just just enjoy it for what it is? I am guessing here but I don't think they know what it is. That's okay though. As long as they are comfortable with it, and no one gets hurt, they can have their delusions. The counter to that line of reasoning is that it is a game, it has a rulebook, they need to play by the rules. Which is all well and good untill you have to start a pissing match with the local club everytime they start off on a tangent. I got wrapped up in some of that at my local club and I didn't care for it. I just show up to shoot now. Let them figure out their own politics. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 Tightloop: I agree with you entirely. It occurs to me that the flap over CCW is probably a regional or local thing. I'll call IDPA and ask them about the rumor. That should put it to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Ron, even the Caliban regime excepts shooting ranges from the concealed-carry/loaded firearms laws. I mean, otherwise they could get you for discharging a firearm within city limits, within x distance of a road, within x distance of a building, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 This subject has been kicked around our club matches for some time. Aside from the issue of that particular club requiring a permit to participate in an IDPA match which certainly is not part of the IDPA rules. If that is their range policy for a private club I can respect that as long as they make it well known before trying to hold a sanctioned match. Though I doubt Berryville would sanction one under those conditions. In GA we have a large membership at various IDPA clubs and ranges that carry concealed. I know of only one MD that set up a designated "load/unload area" for those who carry. It was located completely seperate from the designated "safe area" for obvious safety reasons. The procedure is to arrive and go straight to the "load/unload" area and unload. When you're ready to leave, again go to the "load/unload" area, load and leave. Don't load up and stick around to chit chat. For those of us that travel in our state and recipricating states for IDPA and other gun matches this is always an issue. Club Match Directors should start considering this issue from a safety standpoint and so should Berryville. (Edited by Mayonaise at 2:13 pm on Dec. 8, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 If true, that club needs an attitude adjustment. Only 35 or so states have "shall issue" laws; besides I can be in 4 states and the district w/in 1.5 hrs drive - what about competitors from other areas who cannot get CCWs? Its easy for residents of a shall issue state to look down on those living in less reasonable states - the thinking goes something like "well those people should just move out of X state!!" How reasonable is that??!? Requireing a CCW for an IDPA match is really out of line. Encouraging all club members to apply for a permit? Sure, that's a fine idea, but a requirement is TOO MUCH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 This is dumb. Having a "concealed weapon" means more than just "I can't see it at this particular moment. On the range, everyone can reasonably be assumed to have a gun. Putting it in a holster under a shirt is NOT done with intent to carry a gun without anyone knowing, so you aren't REALLY concealing the weapon, are you? Just my $0.02 DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I don't understand the whole thing. How would having or not having a CHL enter into the equation of shooting a match of any kind? The whole idea is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 9, 2002 Author Share Posted December 9, 2002 DogmaDog: I agree the whole notion of CCW for a match is dumb. In fact, I kind of regret even bringing it up. Still, if (when) a club is challenged on their practices (shooting steel when regular range rules forbid it, drawing from holsters on ranges forbidding that, etc.) it's nice to be able to give a well thought out response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Maybe some folks need to look at what the state laws on firearms say. For example, in PA, no license is required "when engaged in target shooting or while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice so long as the firearm is unlaoded and the ammunition is carried in a seperate container". So I'd have folks check the laws...www.nraila.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 vluc: Well duh, (slaps forehead) why didn't I think of that? Sometimes I really wonder if my problem is too much education or not enough common sense. Be nice now, lol. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Ron, It's associating with those kids you teach ----- they'll dumb anyone down..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Ron, Of course, it's not my intent to call anyone here a dummy. And I wouldn't put it past some assinine gun-control organization to claim that IDPA shooters are violating the law when they draw from concealment at a match, and that they're "training to be terrorists/spree-shooting psychos/murderers", so, even though such a position ought not to be dignified with a response, It can't hurt to have one prepared if ever you are forced to respond. In any case, I would think the position ("concealing" weapons during a match where such is standard match procedure) would be defensible even if local law lacked the kinds of stipulations vluc pointed out. Cheers, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Quote: from Ron Ankeny on 11:05 pm on Dec. 9, 2002 vluc: Well duh, (slaps forehead) why didn't I think of that? Sometimes I really wonder if my problem is too much education or not enough common sense. Be nice now, lol. Thanks. so sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 "And I wouldn't put it past some assinine gun-control organization to claim that IDPA shooters are violating the law when they draw from concealment at a match, and that they're "training to be terrorists/spree-shooting psychos/murderers","" I thought that many IPSC nations had prohibitions on anything that might be construed as "military or police training" and that is why IPSC is based around the classic or amoeba target and lacks anything resembling a window, door, hallway, etc. while here in the US, targets still have heads and stages can resemble whatever we want. I agree that your quote is not only possible, there is even a foreign model for such laws. No interest in seeing USPSA become "PC". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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