Precision reloading for dummies

[bgary]

OK, so I want to move beyond loading "standard" .308 ammo and want to start crafting ammo for *my* rifle.

Have been browsing the Sinclair catalog, and eyes are glazing over at the array of tools and such. Not sure what I really "need", and looking to y'all for guidance. In particular,

-- what tool(s) do I need in order to measure my chamber to be able to size my cases and adjust the shoulder appropriately?

-- what tool(s) do I need in order to measure my throat/freebore so I can seat my bullets just off the lands?

-- at my current (kindergarten) level, how important is it to be able to measure concentricity, neck thickness, run-out, etc..?

-- at my current level, how important is it to sort bullets? By weight? By length (comparator?)

-- do I need a powder-trickler? If so, which one is good (currently just using a standard Dillon powder-drop)

-- what other "stuff" do I need to get started on a good path? Not looking for perfection at this point, just looking for first steps on the path to learning more about producing accurate ammo... so any guidance about must-have tools for case-prep and load development would be great.

Thanks in advance...

[yoshidaex]

First steps to precision reloading

I got quite a bit of notes from the above link when I first started.

I haven't gotten any where near precision but felt a 3 shot group covered by a dime out of a bone stock 700 was good enough.

[Graham Smith]

If you are talking about a magazine fed AR-10 then you can skip the whole measuring business because you have to set the COAL too short to make a difference.

If you are talking about a bolt action, then you might want to spend some time over at 6mmBR reading some of their stuff.

To measure the proper COAL, Hornady makes a dandy OAL Gauge and Bullet Comparator. There are two parts, one is the main part of the gauge and the other is a special cartridge for your caliber.

If you are going to load precision, then you will likely want either a single stage or turret press. You can measure you powder with nothing fancier than a Lee dipper and then use a trickler (the Redding is top rated) to bring the charge up to actual. Of course, you will need an accurate scale. You can also plop down the big bucks and get a combo dispenser and scale (anywhere from $220 for the Hornady or Pact up to $325 for the RCBS).

If you don't have one, Dillon makes a great case guage.

[ShooterSteve]

I'll throw what I do out there, and I'm sure others will chime in. My reloading for 308 is very basic accuracy reloading. I use Fed GMM brass. I don't sort it or weigh it. I do true the pockets and deburr the flash hole. I know it is soft and you won't get as many loadings out of it, but I have it, so I'll use it till it goes down hill. I use 44gr Varget. There may be another powder that shoots better but it's working pretty good. 175SMKs, about .010 off the lands. .020,.010, and just touching the lands all shoot the same IN MY GUN. I went to .010 to avoid the little bit of extra pressure from touching. I use a Sinclair arbor press with Wilson dies. My chamber is factory, so I have a factory sized bushing (the guys at Sinclair can help you pick your bushing). I use a Harrells powder measure, and don't trickle. I measure my chamber with a stoney point comparator, and I like the way it works. Your brass will get fire formed when you shoot it, and will fit your chamber perfectly once it's done. The Wilson dies will neck size only. I don't turn my necks as I have a factory chamber. As you can see, I'm trying to load to a higher quality, but not go absolutely crazy over it. My rifle is pretty basic, it's an old Ruger 77V. Walnut stock and all. Factory barrel. I had a just graduated student from Montgomery tech college float the barrel, bed it, and do a three lb trigger job. He charged me a whopping 50 bucks. With a Leupold 20x it shoots in the mid to high 4s. I don't dig deeper into the brass prep and stuff, because I just don't see it shooting much better. I have a basic rifle with a nice scope, basic accurate reloading, and I'm shooting sub 1/2 moa. I think I'll keep it. If you start with good basic reloading habits, and build from there, I think you will see results. I also learned a lot from Fred Sinclairs book about precision reloading.

[Powder Finger]

OK, so I want to move beyond loading "standard" .308 ammo and want to start crafting ammo for *my* rifle.

Have been browsing the Sinclair catalog, and eyes are glazing over at the array of tools and such. Not sure what I really "need", and looking to y'all for guidance. In particular,

-- what tool(s) do I need in order to measure my chamber to be able to size my cases and adjust the shoulder appropriately?

-- what tool(s) do I need in order to measure my throat/freebore so I can seat my bullets just off the lands?

-- at my current (kindergarten) level, how important is it to be able to measure concentricity, neck thickness, run-out, etc..?

-- at my current level, how important is it to sort bullets? By weight? By length (comparator?)

-- do I need a powder-trickler? If so, which one is good (currently just using a standard Dillon powder-drop)

-- what other "stuff" do I need to get started on a good path? Not looking for perfection at this point, just looking for first steps on the path to learning more about producing accurate ammo... so any guidance about must-have tools for case-prep and load development would be great.

Thanks in advance...

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/

[Wap wap]

As you are finding out, there are many approaches and each shooter has a routine. If you keep asking this question it will occur to you sooner or later that some of them are in contradiction. So -- the short version is that no way is more important, and since so many different approaches work, none are bad. The Zen of reloading. A Dillon will give you all you need. The trick is figuring out if its the loads, the shooter, the scope, or the gun that is missing. This comes with a lot of shooting. Its easy to use top flight gun,scope,bullets, which eliminates some of the variables. This leaves the shooter. I load .5 moa loads all the time for tactical rifles out to 1500 yds on a Dillon. The guns, TRGs,Surgeons,SPRs, the scopes, S&B, USO, predictable stuff. 1st rule. Make Dull reloads. you want no suprizes. Dull Dull, Dull, do the same thing everytime. 2nd. rule . 3 shot groups are as worthless as not shooting. 3th. Did you check the scope out for tracking? If you didn't the quality of the reload makes no difference. 4th. Do you understand the chain of events in the ignition process, and the role each part of the reloading process does to correct and restore this? 5th and most important rule Have fun!

[Bill M]

Sinclair has alot of nice tools, the longer I reload the more I aquire. I have been slowly aquiring great tools, all at once it can drain your mind and bank account.

Hornady OAL guage is a good tool for a bolt gun.

A good caliper is a must.

I only measure neck thickness if I going to neck turn, which is seldom.

As for sorting bullets. I take a random sample from a box of bullets, weigh and check the length to the ogive and if they are good enough the box is good. This wasn't something I did at first, and with quality bullet manf. probably not needed.

Powder drops can be fine. Weighing and trickling is too tedious for me so most of the time I use Hornady Auto charge. This is something I would by again.

Glen Zediker has a good book called Handloading for competition which I like. That a two to 3 reloading manuals.

Bill

[RBros]

This is what I generally set guys up with that are just starting reloading:

1: Hornady OAL gauge and modified case for their rifle

2: Hornady comparator tool with bullet and headspace bushings

3: Digital calipers

4: Electronic scale and dispenser

5: Redding FL sizer and Redding comp seater die

6: VLD chamber tool and case mouth deburr tool

Unless you are shooting benchrest, measuring bullet bearing surface, neck thickness, etc..., doesn't really make a significant difference. The Redding comp seater makes a nice concentric loaded round. Perfect rounds help, but more range time generally helps more.

[George]

Get this book by Glen Zediker

Handloading For Competition

Read it through more than once, think about what you are trying to do and how far you are willing to go and then, and only then should you start buying tools at Sinclair International

[ShooterSteve]

+1 on equipment from Sinclair. They also have a book, Precision reloading and shooting that is very good. Also, Sinclair is a small shop, and the guys there are all long range shooters with personal experience. Any time I've had a question about the direction I was going, they made recommendations on equipment and things, and backed it up with good sound reasoning. Good people there.

[Ken Kwiat]

Jakers,

Provide a bit more data of "what you are after" and where you are currently.

For example, what gun are you using (bolt or gas)? What press are you reloading on?

Application: LR Tactical competition, F-class, BR, plinking...?

Until the window is narrowed a bit, it's hard to offer advice. Although, I don't see anything above that I disagree with. It'll help determine where the "diminishing returns start and end" for what you're after.

I compete in LR Tactical and have recently arrived there from the IPSC-junkie phase in life so I might be able to help.

Sinclair stuff is all great. You may be overthinking some of it, however. Understandable if you're reading the BR forums yet your application is LR Tactical.

Good luck!

[JaviPT22]

helpful starting point...

I am interested in reloading for my 308 bolt action.

sounds alot more complicated than loading for pistol!

[askomiko]

Ahh, reloading for precision... The possibilites for endless tinkering... My belief is that you get quite a lot of the possible accuracy with few simple steps, and don't need a boat load of tools. The only must have items are the press, dies, scale, and calipers. That's all I have. But soon, in addition you will need a case length trimmer, because the cases grow longer after a few firings. If you don't plan to shoot dozen reloads out the the same cases, you can skip that. All other trinkets are optional extras.

-- what tool(s) do I need in order to measure my chamber to be able to size my cases and adjust the shoulder appropriately?

Adjust a full lenght sizing die almost to touch the case holder in you press, and size the case. Then see if fits in your chamber or not, adjust the die lower in small increments until it does fit.

-- what tool(s) do I need in order to measure my throat/freebore so I can seat my bullets just off the lands?

Not necessarily anything. Just put the round in and check for rifling marks in the bullet. Make the round longer and longer until you see the marks, and adjust accordingly. You can color the bullet with a blue pen if you want to, or spin it and polish it with 000 steel wool, to make it easy to see the rifling marks. The latter trick works better.

-- do I need a powder-trickler? If so, which one is good (currently just using a standard Dillon powder-drop)

Not necessarily. I just use those little spoons they sell for reloading, and trickle by hand. With some powders, the dillon powder measure will drop charges that vary quite wildly. For accuracy loading, I scale all my loads. It's not that bad, since for accuracy work, 20 rounds is a plenty.

Basically, making pretty good ammo is pretty simple after all. Then, as with everything in world, getting the last 10%... The more you approach the benchrest methods, the more time consuming it becomes. These are the steps which I believe will give a pretty big chunk of the available accuracy. I'm not expert though.

1. Use good brass, preferably one batch (of Lapua. Their new 308 palma brass is supposedly amazing.)

2. Sort for weight, like this:

3. Find the bullet and OAL your gun likes. My gun really really liked Berger 168gr VLD. At least test the basic usual suspects, Berger VLD, Sierra Match king, and Lapua Scenar.

4. Weigh your powder charge with a good scale. Yes, slow, but it works. Finding the best amount of powder, I do the "optimal charge weight" version of a simple ladder test. Basically, you make a few different loads, with small increments, and test them all: http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134

With these simple steps, I got my cheap 308 Savage often to shoot quite good. And it's barrel is basically made of old files, with the rough spots still inside the barrel... It's nice to shoot over a chrono, after all that case and powder scaling, and see muzzle velocities ridiculously close to each other, and hopefully see something good in the target too. For me, there's always that excitement when walking to the target.. "Is it a shotgun group, or a cloverleaf.." More often it looks like someone mistook my target for a duck and shot it with a shotgun, but sometimes things just work. These groups are 150 meters/164yds

Now looking at these pictures makes me think, "What the hell am I doing now with my tight-chambered 6.5-284 that weighs half a ton, and all that neck turning and tinkering, yet I cannot shoot as good groups as I did with that crummy Savage I used to have." Ugh! I need a worse gun obviously! I hope things will improve though, it's all so new now, so I just need to find the optimal combination of all things... I'll report back in two years!

Edited February 20, 2011 by askomiko

[Erik S.]

What you need:

comparator (sinclair makes a good one)

Case trimmer (Lyman makes a good one)

Chamfer/deburring tool (sinclair makes a good one)

primer pocket uniforming tool (Lyman)

flash hole reamer (lyman)

Good dies (especially seating die) (Redding makes good dies)

calipers (Mitutoyo makes some good ones but any accurate ones will work)

good brass (lapua makes good brass)

good bullets (Sierra makes the matchking which has 2 popular weights for .308, 168 and 175, both good although 168's perform better in 24" barrel and 175's better in 26" barrels...just in MY experience)

good powder (i use Hodgdon Varget, but BLC-2 works well)

After that is up to you to follow how many times fired your brass is, keep it trimmed AFTER sizing....this is time consuming since it's an easy step to just size then throw powder and seat and basically takes the advantages of a Dillon out of the picture. I use single stage for match grade rifle and use the dillon ONLY for sizing and priming (2 separate steps). Take your time and measure every powder charge to the 0.1 grain. You'll be amazed at the quality of ammo you produce. I have not found a need to measure my case volumes, weights, and neck concentricity. I figure I started out with good brass and used the same tools on each case for brass prep. Some folks get this detailed but my rifle already shoots sub .5moa following the steps above and I'm not sure I could shoot much better...so I stopped there in the consideration of the added time to further perfect the rounds I turn out.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Erik S.