Moz drill:what is an acceptable time?

[98006]

What would be an acceptable time for the moz drill? I've been doing it in the classifier at about 2.5 sec. been told that slow and it should be done in 1.5-1.75 secs.

[astephenson]

Mine always hover around 3 seconds, which isn't fast at all. Ben Stoeger has video of him shooting them around 1.6 seconds, which is pretty fast. I'd say in the low 2's or around 2 would be pretty fast for a mere mortal. Here's Ben's sub-60 second classifier-

BTW- did the person that said you're too slow show you that he can do it in 1.5-1.75 seconds?

Edited December 6, 2010 by WellArmedSheep

[Steve Koski]

For me, I can get my head shots every time at around 1.8-1.9 seconds. If I push it faster I miss the heads some times.

2.5 seconds is a very common time. You're not unusual by any stretch. But there is some room in your draw if you can find it. Some good one on one coaching and some video would help.

Koski

Edited December 6, 2010 by Steve Koski

[Duane Thomas]

Yeah, ask the guy who told you that to demo it for you.

Personally, at low SSP Master level, I typically do it in the 1.9s and 2.0s.

[Flexmoney]

Search for "double trouble" (not the BE version, but the version that Steve Anderson and I posted about)

We shot it in our monthly Steel Challenge match...which means no 'down zeros' to worry about and race holsters, but it is still, basically, a Mozambique drill. Ours was two to the body, one to the head @ 8y (body was 18x24 plate, head was a round steel plate). I know that sounds like an extra big body target when compared to the 'down zero', but when you were shooting well it all tightens up.

[Flexmoney]

Though not quite the same thing, this might be relevant as well: http://pistol-training.com/fastest

[lugnut]

Since this is in the IDPA section I'll just mention this- you get easily get to Master without getting sub 2sec runs. Just for giggles I checked some of my classifiers- I ran an 89sec run with mozambiques running from 2.21 to 2.12. You just can't afford a miss!!! If you missed one head shot trying to get all 1.8s runs on strings 1-3 you just basically ran 2.6s mozambiques.... that being said getting the gun out of the holster is where you can make up "safe" time.

Two things cause people to screw up the classifier- missed head shots on stage 1.... and stage 3. I practice the mozambiques once in a while and have had some ripping times, and they are fun, but I spend much more time on longer shots like stage 3. Most of the time I spend now is 10yards and out or closer with partials.

[salilus]

Just recently did one in a match at about 7yds in 1.88. As for the classifier, points down on the heads and Stage 3 is what seperates the Sharpshooters from the masters.

[Strick]

I made MA in CDP with 2 misses, one of which was a head shot in 1st stage.

To answer the original question though, 1.8-2.0 is a solid pace for me that assures 0 down.

[Flexmoney]

Get the timer out and post some split times on the drill. Then you can see where you have opportunities for improvement.

For example, in our Steel Challenge Double Trouble (Moz), I never did get it down to 1.00 seconds. Neither did Steve. Combined, we could have got there. Getting there, in my mind, was a 0.70 draw, a 0.15 split and a 0.15 transition to the head. I could normally nail the split and transition, but the best draw I could manage during a match was about 0.80-0.85. Steve could pick up a tenth on me on the draw, but gave it back on the transition to the head.

From an IDPA rig and going for a solid 'down zero' you might set some goals for the draw time, the split time and the transition time.

- A draw of 1.25

- split of 0.20

- transition to head 0.35

That would equal 1.80s

For a 1.50, you'd be looking at a 1.0 draw, 0.20 split and 0.30 transition (give or take). ...pretty sporty, IMO

[lugnut]

Flex- that's a great way to break down most stages in the classifier (or in general- any COF). Thing- is it almost makes the 1.50 "look" easy on paper... or at least it certainly makes a 2.0 time look like cake.

[Strick]

From an IDPA rig and going for a solid 'down zero' you might set some goals for the draw time, the split time and the transition time.

- A draw of 1.25

- split of 0.20

- transition to head 0.35

That would equal 1.80s

For a 1.50, you'd be looking at a 1.0 draw, 0.20 split and 0.30 transition (give or take). ...pretty sporty, IMO

That is how I looked at it also.

My times are

Draw - 1.35

split - .18

transition - .25 to .30

These are based on practice time averages

I need to get a better draw.

[GOF]

Times of 1.9 - 2.2 are very good if you are Down Zero. If you are not Down zero, those times suck. As others have mentioned, you cannot miss the head shot, (that's 2.5 seconds). Miss that shot and you are at a Marksman level. Run it under 2.2 sec and down zero and you're doing fine (lower Master or upper Expert level). Down zero is the key on that stage. Even a single down one on the COM shot adds .5 seconds, so your 2 second time now becomes 2.5. Think down zero.

GOF

[Nik Habicht]

Get the timer out and post some split times on the drill. Then you can see where you have opportunities for improvement.

For example, in our Steel Challenge Double Trouble (Moz), I never did get it down to 1.00 seconds. Neither did Steve. Combined, we could have got there. Getting there, in my mind, was a 0.70 draw, a 0.15 split and a 0.15 transition to the head. I could normally nail the split and transition, but the best draw I could manage during a match was about 0.80-0.85. Steve could pick up a tenth on me on the draw, but gave it back on the transition to the head.

From an IDPA rig and going for a solid 'down zero' you might set some goals for the draw time, the split time and the transition time.

- A draw of 1.25

- split of 0.20

- transition to head 0.35

That would equal 1.80s

For a 1.50, you'd be looking at a 1.0 draw, 0.20 split and 0.30 transition (give or take). ...pretty sporty, IMO

Back when I was really practicing -- and this would have to have been ~ 2003-4 -- 1.70-1.80 was about the best I could do in practice, and it broke down much like Flex's breakdown, with a draw of ~ 1.25-1.3, a split of around .20, and a transition that was often closer to .25, than to the .35 indicated.

But, in the IDPA version, the entire head is -0, so that makes for a faster transition than when you're going for the A-zone on a USPSA target....

Best in a match around then was probably easily in 2.25 second range -- The draw slowed down a little, and I know I always looked for a little more sight picture on the transition to the head, than I was willing to accept in practice....

[lugnut]

Best in a match around then was probably easily in 2.25 second range -- The draw slowed down a little, and I know I always looked for a little more sight picture on the transition to the head, than I was willing to accept in practice....

Makes perfect sense to me. .25s won't kill you in a match.... a miss will. It's tough to "win" a classifier.

[Nik Habicht]

Best in a match around then was probably easily in 2.25 second range -- The draw slowed down a little, and I know I always looked for a little more sight picture on the transition to the head, than I was willing to accept in practice....

Makes perfect sense to me. .25s won't kill you in a match.... a miss will. It's tough to "win" a classifier.

Exactly. Plus, I shot the classifier most times at an indoor match -- and the illumination difference (as compared to outdoor practice) slows vision down a little too....

[Steve Koski]

For me, I can get my head shots every time at around 1.8-1.9 seconds. If I push it faster I miss the heads some times.

Looking at my classifier score sheets, it seems that my memory is pretty optimistic. I only had 3 strings below 2.00. In the last few years, most were in the 2.00-2.30 range.

Koski

[GForceLizard]

An acceptable time for what? I'm a very good sharpshooter and low border line expert IDPA shooter. I can only do 2.84 sec, but I seem to manage. It is a skill I should work on.