Just not the same!

[Kevin G.]

I think you made the point about learning to ride a bike, there is no "how" and you can't think about it, you just have to get on the bike. You may not succeed at first, but if you keep at it before you know it you are riding. You can think about it after but there is no real point where you knew how to ride a bike and you certainly can't tell someone how to do it, but you can still ride a bike...even now, if you haven't ridden a bike in years, you can still get on and ride.

This makes ZERO sense. There is no "HOW" to ride a bike? There are books to end on 'how" to ride a bike (or motorcycle) Since I have been riding (and racing since 1972) I can assure you there is a "how" to do it. Ask a champion. They will agree.

Yeah... like walking, there is a how.....just ask a supermodel.

[benos]

I think you made the point about learning to ride a bike, there is no "how" and you can't think about it, you just have to get on the bike. You may not succeed at first, but if you keep at it before you know it you are riding. You can think about it after but there is no real point where you knew how to ride a bike and you certainly can't tell someone how to do it, but you can still ride a bike...even now, if you haven't ridden a bike in years, you can still get on and ride.

This makes ZERO sense. There is no "HOW" to ride a bike? There are books to end on 'how" to ride a bike (or motorcycle) Since I have been riding (and racing since 1972) I can assure you there is a "how" to do it. Ask a champion. They will agree.

Since I wrote a book on pistol shooting, I will have to agree. There is somewhat of a "how," altthough from my perspective the "how" is more of a set of guidelines than hard and fast rules.

To reach a level of world class performance, there is obviously a "how" or learning phase. Lots of thinking, analyzing, and experimenting goes on in the learning phase. But to perform at our absolute best, we eventually learn to allow the thinking/controlling mind to be replaced by the aware, attentive mind. That is what Pat was referring to when he said, "even if you haven't ridden a bike in years, you can still get on and ride." Once you have learned to ride, you don't have to think (learn) about it any longer. You just do it.

Learning is for learning. When you forget what you learned your performance will be spot on.

[38supPat]

You are talking about how to compete, or techniques for racing, I'm talking about the actual get on your first bike without training wheels putting your feet on the pedals and not falling over. You can be told to hold the handlebars and put your foot on the pedals but the act of getting your balance cannot really be explained, at least not as a how to. We know we need to balance and by getting some forward momentum it becomes easier but really we just have to fall down a few times until you "get it"

[Sam]

Schrödinger's Cat knows that it doesn't know?

[Sam]

Schrödinger's Cat knows that it doesn't know.

Schrödinger's Cat doesn't know that it knows.

[whitedog]

Pick any activity, read a book, then go do it. You will fail. Basic skills come from knowledge, skill comes from doing it. You can not learn a thing without doing a thing. That's the point. The first time I ran at the salt flats was a lot of book work, feel and "knowing" got me over the mark. Yes, knowledge is necessary, but the time comes when you "feel" it.

[bjdm151]

I think you made the point about learning to ride a bike, there is no "how" and you can't think about it, you just have to get on the bike. You may not succeed at first, but if you keep at it before you know it you are riding. You can think about it after but there is no real point where you knew how to ride a bike and you certainly can't tell someone how to do it, but you can still ride a bike...even now, if you haven't ridden a bike in years, you can still get on and ride.

This makes ZERO sense. There is no "HOW" to ride a bike? There are books to end on 'how" to ride a bike (or motorcycle) Since I have been riding (and racing since 1972) I can assure you there is a "how" to do it. Ask a champion. They will agree.

It actually makes a lot of sense its just not explained that well. I don't know how I balance, my body does it with out asking. I'm sure a doctor could tell me what the inner ear does for balance, but does me not knowing it function prohibit me in partaking?

[BisleyBlackhawk]

Pick any activity, read a book, then go do it. You will fail. Basic skills come from knowledge, skill comes from doing it. You can not learn a thing without doing a thing. That's the point. The first time I ran at the salt flats was a lot of book work, feel and "knowing" got me over the mark. Yes, knowledge is necessary, but the time comes when you "feel" it.

Greetings all, this is my first post though I have lurked around for many months....maybe I should post this in the "beginners" section but I will post it here. There has been much discussion about "knowing" how to do something as opposed to "feeling" it. I have been a shooter as well as a motorcycle rider for 40 years. I don't want to come across as someone who says you don't "learn" certain skills as opposed to just knowing them but let me share my feelings on things. Each of us is a product of what we experience through our senses. When we are riding and someone suddenly pulls out in front of us our minds (or at least mine) does not go through a series of do's or dont's about what we will do to get out of a accident...you just do it. It does not go through your mind that "if I look at the car I will "steer" my scoot into it...you allow (if that is the right word) to look past the threat and naturally allow (if that is the right word) your mind to "control" the threat through..."feeling" as opposed to "knowing" what to do (based on your what you have "learned" as well as "senses" and feel)...you know what to do but you also must feel what to do. When I raced motocross (a short time a long, long time ago) it was described as "being in the groove" or "feeling the track" (yes, I know CORNEY idioms...but it was the 70's)...but it was a feeling as opposed to knowing the correct procedures to make a good run...if it "felt right" it was right (tech vs. right...both combined resulted in "feel"). We call it "gut"?. All things in life...important and unimportant are like this. To really screw up...over think it...over plan it, and try too hard. Things take care of things. Bisley

Edited January 23, 2011 by BisleyBlackhawk

[StraightUp_OG]

Great first post.

[bjdm151]

"you must unlearn what you have learned"

[benos]

Practice until you can do it without thinking about it.

[short_round]

Perhaps I need to sit more.

It normally takes a lot of rounds to find myself there, because I do love shooting so, but in the space between wanting to shoot and not wanting to shoot I just shoot.