powder question

[Paul-the new guy]

loaded my first 500 9mm using 115grn MG's and Tite Group powder. I shoot a couple hundred of them and my gun was so dirty I did not even want to touch it. Is this typical?? Is there a better powder choice?

[Knee Deep]

loaded my first 500 9mm using 115grn MG's and Tite Group powder. I shoot a couple hundred of them and my gun was so dirty I did not even want to touch it. Is this typical?? Is there a better powder choice?

Paul, I use 4.2g to 4.6 of Titegroup with WSP primers and Berry plated DS 115g RN, the dirty part usually just wipe off with rag, this is in two G34's one production set up the other for Open/minor. What amount of TG are you loading, and are you talking about the browning of muzzle end and feed ramp?

[Paul-the new guy]

loaded my first 500 9mm using 115grn MG's and Tite Group powder. I shoot a couple hundred of them and my gun was so dirty I did not even want to touch it. Is this typical?? Is there a better powder choice?

Paul, I use 4.2g to 4.6 of Titegroup with WSP primers and Berry plated DS 115g RN, the dirty part usually just wipe off with rag, this is in two G34's one production set up the other for Open/minor. What amount of TG are you loading, and are you talking about the browning of muzzle end and feed ramp?

I loaded 4.8 grns over Federal small pistol primers. The muzzle end back about 1 to 1.5 inches was BLACK! My gun is OD so it was very obvious. The feed ramp and even the mag well look to be very dirty as well. I have not cleaned the gun yet so I don't know how easy it comes off... I am going to try some 124grn CMJ MG's next. I am not sure about this re-loading thing. I am sure could have just bought factory Federal (Wal-Mart) Ammo cheaper... I don't think I could save enough money in my lifetime to cover the cost of a Dillon 650

[mlmiller1]

Question: Do you have sufficient crimp? Not enough crimp, the powder does not burn well. Check crimp by taking a loaded round, pressing the bullet end against a table or something fairly hard & check to see if the bullet length has changed. If it has, not enough crimp.

There are cleaner powders but most are more expensive. Also, some guns just don't like some bullet powder combos.

If you give up loading, you can get at least 80% of your cost back on your dillon so keep that in mind. If you just go down to your local sporting goods store & buy 100 primers & 1lb of powder & 100 bullets, you are gonna be a long time paying back or saving money. If you buy 10k primers, 10-20lbs of powder & a couple cases of bullets, you can start to see some savings. First, though, you gotta find a load you like. Then buy in bulk.

Don't give up yet!

MLM

[CocoBolo]

TiteGroup is a little on the dirty side but you gotta love how it shoots, no amount of crimp will make it a clean burning powder its just nasty by nature. I say shoot it enjoy it and quit being OCD about it, you are not going to eat out of your slide. If the gun will run for 500 rounds without choking then its perfect.

If you want cleaner but still on the cheap end WST or 231, N320 when cost isn't a factor..

[Rob D]

That is pretty typical based on my experience with Titegroup. My gun is black, and I clean it obsessively anyway so it never really bothered me.

[G-ManBart]

Question: Do you have sufficient crimp? Not enough crimp, the powder does not burn well. Check crimp by taking a loaded round, pressing the bullet end against a table or something fairly hard & check to see if the bullet length has changed. If it has, not enough crimp.

What you're describing there is bullet pull (neck tension), not crimp. With a taper crimp die you can't change the neck tension much at all...you'd really have to crank it down. Neck tension is created by the resizing die and diameter of the bullet. The "crimp" die really just smoothes out the flare after bullet seating. With proper neck tension, you can take a seated, but not crimped bullet, do the test you describe, and the bullet shouldn't move. R,

[Paul-the new guy]

Thanks for the help and information. I did not crimp most of the rounds at all. I think maybe 30 or 40 I ran through the Lee carbide factory crimp die. I am just getting started and only have a single stage press so this seemed like a time consuming and somewhat un-necessary step. I may try and shoot a hundred or so that I run through the crimp die and see if that makes a difference. If the powder is inherently dirty then it is what it is... It did not shoot poorly or anything so I will be using it for the next 900 or so rounds I load. The only comparison I have is the factory ammo that I have been shooting did not seem to make my gun nearly as dirty. I also loaded a few hundred rounds of .223 and thought the same thing. The gun was filthy after 150 rounds. I run my AR kind of wet and it was dripping black gunk gunk into the magazines. Maybe aftermarket powders are just dirtier than the factory stuff.

Paul

[RH45]

Yes, Titegroup is a little dirty, but, it pretty much just wipes off.

If you want clean, use some VV320.

[CocoBolo]

Thanks for the help and information. I did not crimp most of the rounds at all. I think maybe 30 or 40 I ran through the Lee carbide factory crimp die. I am just getting started and only have a single stage press so this seemed like a time consuming and somewhat un-necessary step. I may try and shoot a hundred or so that I run through the crimp die and see if that makes a difference. If the powder is inherently dirty then it is what it is... It did not shoot poorly or anything so I will be using it for the next 900 or so rounds I load. The only comparison I have is the factory ammo that I have been shooting did not seem to make my gun nearly as dirty. I also loaded a few hundred rounds of .223 and thought the same thing. The gun was filthy after 150 rounds. I run my AR kind of wet and it was dripping black gunk gunk into the magazines. Maybe aftermarket powders are just dirtier than the factory stuff.

Paul

I've loaded a lot of .223 with BLC(2) and Varget and they run very clean. Sounds like we are missing something in this story. Are you using any lubricant? Are you cleaning the brass before loading?

I think in the pistol rounds if you are not crimping at all you are going to see more soot in the gun. In the .223 I only use bullets with a cannalure and crimp them nicely in the cannalure. But you did not indicate that you had issues with the .223 running so you had to have crimped them..

[Paul-the new guy]

Thanks for the help and information. I did not crimp most of the rounds at all. I think maybe 30 or 40 I ran through the Lee carbide factory crimp die. I am just getting started and only have a single stage press so this seemed like a time consuming and somewhat un-necessary step. I may try and shoot a hundred or so that I run through the crimp die and see if that makes a difference. If the powder is inherently dirty then it is what it is... It did not shoot poorly or anything so I will be using it for the next 900 or so rounds I load. The only comparison I have is the factory ammo that I have been shooting did not seem to make my gun nearly as dirty. I also loaded a few hundred rounds of .223 and thought the same thing. The gun was filthy after 150 rounds. I run my AR kind of wet and it was dripping black gunk gunk into the magazines. Maybe aftermarket powders are just dirtier than the factory stuff.

Paul

I've loaded a lot of .223 with BLC(2) and Varget and they run very clean. Sounds like we are missing something in this story. Are you using any lubricant? Are you cleaning the brass before loading?

I think in the pistol rounds if you are not crimping at all you are going to see more soot in the gun. In the .223 I only use bullets with a cannalure and crimp them nicely in the cannalure. But you did not indicate that you had issues with the .223 running so you had to have crimped them..

All the brass was cleaned in a lyman vibrating tumbler using lyman green media that came with it and was VERY clean. I lubed the cases to size then=m and I wiped all the lube off of them before priming them. I did crimp the .223's using a Lee FCD. I used Winchester 748 powder The AR was pretty well lubricated with CLP it just seemed to be running a little dirtier with my hand loads than it did with any of the factory loads i have shot with it. I have some TAC the I loaded 20 rounds of HDY 75grn match bullets with and also some 8208 XBR that I am going to be using. The 9mm was not wet at all. I cleaned it up tonight and it cleans easily so it is not a big deal. I read that some of the issue with the 9mm could be the exposed lead? The .223 had exposed lead on the 55grns I loaded also.

I need to get some dies for my .40SW and try that one next.

[jtaylor996]

I've been running titegroup (4.1gr) over 115gr XTP (1.090" OAL), and it's the cleanest thing I've used so far. I hear the the N320 is cleaner, however. It's not available locally for me, so I don't use it.

My only comparison for this is the factory load I've tried. These were mostly RUMC and WWB. I won't buy any RUMC anymore it's so dirty. The WWB is much, much, much dirtier than the titegroup loads that I'm using.

After shooting 200 straight, there is just a light coat of brown on the very end of the muzzle. Everything inside the gun is still very clean. In fact, I'm getting rust on my barrel now, since I don't bother cleaning it nearly as often as I used to when I was using factory ammo.

[mlmiller1]

What you're describing there is bullet pull (neck tension), not crimp. With a taper crimp die you can't change the neck tension much at all...you'd really have to crank it down. Neck tension is created by the resizing die and diameter of the bullet. The "crimp" die really just smoothes out the flare after bullet seating. With proper neck tension, you can take a seated, but not crimped bullet, do the test you describe, and the bullet shouldn't move. R,

Yes, neck tension, I used the wrong term. I should learn to be careful & also very specific especially with new reloaders. My brain ran on with the idea without using the right words. Sorry new guy. Neck Tension.

MLM