Henning 21-round Magazines for Limited - Nothing but trouble?

[triggerhound]

I recently purchased 3 of Henning's 21-round magazines (for .40 S&W) for my Tanfoglio Limited Custom (Large frame). I'm having nothing but issues with these magazines and want to find out if anyone else has had these issues and has any suggestions on how I can get around them. I really love the gun, but these magazines are frustrating me beyond belief.

The first issue, out of the box, is that the magazines had a lot of binding issues. They requiree too much force to seat them properly into the magazine well. I finally figured out that the back of the base pad was rubbing up against the inside of the detachable mag well. It was happening with the factory mag well so I bought the improved Henning mag well and it had the exact same problem. I had to file down the back of the basepad on each of the magazines to get them to stop binding. Problem solved but I wasn't very happy that I had to take a file to the brand new base pads to get them to fit the gun properly.

My new problem is that when I reload the magazine against an open slide, the magazine OVER seats itself into the frame. The magazine actually travels TOO far into the gun and gets stuck. This causes the slide to completely get jammed in the rear position because the top of the magazine gets right in front of the breach face and blocks the slide from moving forward. The magazines are almost impossible to get OUT of the gun when this happens. I had to push down on the magazine from the top (inside the ejection port) to force it out. I have read that a few people have bent the bottom of the magazine release notch (on the magazine) out a bit to prevent this from happening. Anyone else done this?

The final (hopefully) issue is that these magazines, while advertised to be reloadable to 21 rounds, are really reloadable to only about 18 rounds on average. That's only 2 rounds better than the factory magazine. Perhaps this is because they are brand new and haven't been worked in yet? Does the capacity improve as the springs are worked in from use?

Anyeone else here had this issue or a similar experience?

Edited October 18, 2010 by triggerhound

[JThompson]

TH

You should contact Henning directly for any complaints you may have with a product. He's a good guy and will take care of you.

JT

Edited October 18, 2010 by JThompson

[CHA-LEE]

Triggerhound> It sucks that you are having issues with the 21 round mags. Your first issue could be due to how the frame of the pistol is manufactured. I have seen some frames have more fitting issues than others. Unfortunately this is part of how the frames are manufactured.

The second issue of inserting the mags too far when the slide is locked back, yep that is just how it works. When the slide is locked back the only thing that keeps the mag from being inserted too far is the mag catch. It is easy to push past that if you slap the magazine into the gun. I use my gun in competition and don't have a slide lock so even when I run the gun dry the slide is not locked back so I never run into this issue.

The third issue is a little strange. I can load all of my mags up to 21 rounds and reload to them without issue. Yes I have to seat them firmly but its not an excessive amount of force. If you are only able to reload to 18 rounds then you are simply not driving the mags home hard enough during the reload.

[triggerhound]

JThompson:

Couldn't agree more. I have spoken with Henning about the issue and he's more than willing to help. He's just been a bit swamped since returning from Europe and I wanted to see if others are having the same problem.

I don't believe its a problem with the magazines. I believe its an issue with the tolerances and consistency with the way the frames are built.

Edited October 18, 2010 by triggerhound

[BritinUSA]

How old is your gun? Do you have the newer magazine catch? They changed it a couple of years ago.

[triggerhound]

CHA-LEE:

I agree. The Frame does seem to be the heart of the problem. I just can't see how anything else could be contributing to the binding.

Thanks for validating the OVER SEATING issue. What do you recommend that I do to help with this problem? Have you heard of anyone bending out the bottom of the notch on the mag to help it engage the mag catch as the magazine is being pushed into the mag well? I've even had this issue when reloading to a closed slide so its a problem for me either way and needs to be addressed.

The issue I'm having with the capacity isn't that I can't reload the magazine with enough force. The issue is that the spring tension inside the magazine is so great that it causes the first round to do a nose dive when the slide comes forward to try to strip it out of the magazine. The first round is then at such a down angle that it rams into the feed ramp and won't load into the chamber. If I simply remove the top round (reducing the number of rounds in the magazine and hence the spring tension) it solves the problem but I'm left with only 18 rounds in the magazine. Is it possible that these are just so new that the spring needs to be worked in a little more? I've only loaded them fully about a dozen times each.

[triggerhound]

How old is your gun? Do you have the newer magazine catch? They changed it a couple of years ago.

It is the newer magazine catch.

[BritinUSA]

CHA-LEE:

I agree. The Frame does seem to be the heart of the problem. I just can't see how anything else could be contributing to the binding.

Does it still bind if you take the grip panels off? My original grips were intruding into the mag area and I had to sand them down a little (before I bought Henning's grips)

[triggerhound]

CHA-LEE:

I agree. The Frame does seem to be the heart of the problem. I just can't see how anything else could be contributing to the binding.

Does it still bind if you take the grip panels off? My original grips were intruding into the mag area and I had to sand them down a little (before I bought Henning's grips)

I tore the frame down until it was naked to determine what was causing the binding. It turned out that the binding was between the inside of the mag well and the top rear square edge of the new magazine base pad (the edge where the basepad retention screw is located). Once I filed down the base pad on that edge to an angle there was absolutely no binding.

[CHA-LEE]

CHA-LEE:

I agree. The Frame does seem to be the heart of the problem. I just can't see how anything else could be contributing to the binding.

Thanks for validating the OVER SEATING issue. What do you recommend that I do to help with this problem? Have you heard of anyone bending out the bottom of the notch on the mag to help it engage the mag catch as the magazine is being pushed into the mag well? I've even had this issue when reloading to a closed slide so its a problem for me either way and needs to be addressed.

The issue I'm having with the capacity isn't that I can't reload the magazine with enough force. The issue is that the spring tension inside the magazine is so great that it causes the first round to do a nose dive when the slide comes forward to try to strip it out of the magazine. The first round is then at such a down angle that it rams into the feed ramp and won't load into the chamber. If I simply remove the top round (reducing the number of rounds in the magazine and hence the spring tension) it solves the problem but I'm left with only 18 rounds in the magazine. Is it possible that these are just so new that the spring needs to be worked in a little more? I've only loaded them fully about a dozen times each.

Which mag bodies did you get? .40 S&W or 10mm? I use the 10mm mag bodies because the front corners are less rounded allowing more "Meat" of the mag catch notch to engage the mag catch latch. If your mag catch latch is really worn out then you will get over insertion issues. You may need a new mag release. I wouldn't recommend bending out the mag catch notch on the magazine its self as that will lead to inconsistent insertion and dropping of the mag because the bent out notch will bind up with the frame.

As for you downloading your mags due to nose dive issues check out the below thread I started on this exact issue. Implementing my suggestions in that thread will eliminate all nose dive issues allowing you to load the mags all the way up. I hope this helps.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76873

[triggerhound]

CHA-LEE:

I agree. The Frame does seem to be the heart of the problem. I just can't see how anything else could be contributing to the binding.

Thanks for validating the OVER SEATING issue. What do you recommend that I do to help with this problem? Have you heard of anyone bending out the bottom of the notch on the mag to help it engage the mag catch as the magazine is being pushed into the mag well? I've even had this issue when reloading to a closed slide so its a problem for me either way and needs to be addressed.

The issue I'm having with the capacity isn't that I can't reload the magazine with enough force. The issue is that the spring tension inside the magazine is so great that it causes the first round to do a nose dive when the slide comes forward to try to strip it out of the magazine. The first round is then at such a down angle that it rams into the feed ramp and won't load into the chamber. If I simply remove the top round (reducing the number of rounds in the magazine and hence the spring tension) it solves the problem but I'm left with only 18 rounds in the magazine. Is it possible that these are just so new that the spring needs to be worked in a little more? I've only loaded them fully about a dozen times each.

Which mag bodies did you get? .40 S&W or 10mm? I use the 10mm mag bodies because the front corners are less rounded allowing more "Meat" of the mag catch notch to engage the mag catch latch. If your mag catch latch is really worn out then you will get over insertion issues. You may need a new mag release. I wouldn't recommend bending out the mag catch notch on the magazine its self as that will lead to inconsistent insertion and dropping of the mag because the bent out notch will bind up with the frame.

As for you downloading your mags due to nose dive issues check out the below thread I started on this exact issue. Implementing my suggestions in that thread will eliminate all nose dive issues allowing you to load the mags all the way up. I hope this helps.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76873

Thank you. This is really great information, thank you. All validates that I'm having the same issues as someone else which in itself is a sigh of relief.

I think you may be right on getting a new mag release. I did some customization to mine and now I'm thinking that may have solved one issue and created another.

I think the OAL of my cartridge is the issue with the nose dives. I was reloading to a standard OAL early on and had nothing but issues. Now I'm reloading to 1.185 but think that STILL might be a little too short from this gun and that a longer OAL might clean up the remaining issues I'm having.

I'm going to give both of these suggestions a try. I'm very hopeful.

Thank you again very very much for your time.

[Jeff686]

In addition to the ammo changes from the other thread, don't forget to check your feed ramp. I was plagued with nosedive issues, on and off for a long time. Eventually, I discovered a slight bur at the very bottom of the feed ramp where the semicircle edge is located. My nosedives were landing squarely on that ridge (created by the bur) and sometimes getting stuck.

It is probably not your issue, but worth inspecting.

[ken hebert]

I'm having some of the same issues as triggerhound with 3 recently purchased mags, albeit in a small frame gun. insert a full mag, cycle the slide and its damn near impossible to remove without locking the slide back and pushing it out from the top. ground the back of the corners of the base pads down some so the mags would actually seat.

sounds like maybe tanfoglio made some small changes to their frames and we're feeling the brunt of it now.

[Complinker]

Hey guys add another the list of mag issues. However, the mag may not be the whole problem. One of the problems I've run into was the brass i was reloading. The problem, Glock brass that has the bulge at the rear. After buying a redding single stage with a resizing die, some of the issues seemed to dwindle but not completely fade. Just thought i would add my 2 cents.

[triggerhound]

Which mag bodies did you get? .40 S&W or 10mm?

I'm using the 10mm mag bodies from Henning. He said they definitely work the best.

[triggerhound]

Hey guys add another the list of mag issues. However, the mag may not be the whole problem. One of the problems I've run into was the brass i was reloading. The problem, Glock brass that has the bulge at the rear. After buying a redding single stage with a resizing die, some of the issues seemed to dwindle but not completely fade. Just thought i would add my 2 cents.

I purchased the undersized resizing die from Henning. It definitely does a better job on the brass than the standard dillon die I was using before. Its smoother, easier to press, and resizes the brass further down the casing.

[triggerhound]

In addition to the ammo changes from the other thread, don't forget to check your feed ramp. I was plagued with nosedive issues, on and off for a long time. Eventually, I discovered a slight bur at the very bottom of the feed ramp where the semicircle edge is located. My nosedives were landing squarely on that ridge (created by the bur) and sometimes getting stuck.

Thanks for the idea: it all helps. I am getting the same outcome, but you are right it is probably not due to the same issue. Having said that, I do believe the the OAL of the cartridge is causing the same thing to happen. I adjusted my reloading die last night and am going to try an OAL of 1.210". The increase in length seems like it would be just enough to make it unlikely that the stoppage could occur again.

[NoSteel]

I've been fighting similar issues for a while now. I resize my brass priot to loading with a U die at a length of 1.200" Zero JHP's all of the time.

Typically I run 19rnds in the mag since #20 is pretty tough to load. I stay on top of my mag lip width (very important) so I don't think the issue is there. The only difference is I've had my mag tubes cobalt plated which actually did help a bit in making them slicker. Playing with follower angles has had some

different results. It just seems with this platform all needs to be just right to perform flawlesly. I still would deal with no one other than Henning when it comes to Tanfoglio.

[Big Nick]

I guess I'm just lucky but I put Henning's H-141 base pad, follower, and spring kit in 3 of my stock .40 S&W magazine bodies, and the H-520 base pad with stock follower and spring in 3 of my other .40 magazine bodies and have not had one FTF problem in either my Limited Pro or my Witness Steel. At first getting 21 rounds in the H-141 magazine was a little tough but now they go in without to much finger pressure. Same with the H-520 and 18 rounds. My guns eat a diet of LRNWC, LSWC, plated flat nose, and jacketed HP.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Big Nick

[Skydiver]

Big Nick, what OAL are you using for that variety of bullet profiles?

[Big Nick]

Big Nick, what OAL are you using for that variety of bullet profiles?

Anywhere between 1.135" to 1.200". The minimum length feeds as well as the maximum length. I shoot light loads at the local steel shoot so both guns have an 8 lb. recoil spring. My factory mags were .40 S&W with a spacer bar inside the front of the magazine. When I put the H-141 base pad, follower, and spring in I had to knock the spacer bar out. I was afraid this might affect feeding, but after about 300 rounds fired at a rapid pace, no problems.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Big Nick

[Complinker]

Hey guys add another the list of mag issues. However, the mag may not be the whole problem. One of the problems I've run into was the brass i was reloading. The problem, Glock brass that has the bulge at the rear. After buying a redding single stage with a resizing die, some of the issues seemed to dwindle but not completely fade. Just thought i would add my 2 cents.

I purchased the undersized resizing die from Henning. It definitely does a better job on the brass than the standard dillon die I was using before. Its smoother, easier to press, and resizes the brass further down the casing.

Thanks for the tip trigger. I'll give it a try.