Need build advice for new 3Gun rifle

[diversmith]

Howdy all...I am new to this forum and have been shooting 3 gun since the beginning of this year and have been doing pretty well at the local level. My local range does outlaw run-what-you-brung type matches and I have been consistently top 5 if not top 3 and have actually won quite a few individual stages along the way. I have been shooting a G34, initially an XCR but then switching to a BCM 14.5" AR, and my M1S90 to this point. My 34 has been great but I have lost a few rifle and shotty stages due to my "basic" equipment. I am looking to wring out everything I can from a new rifle and shotty (thinking Benny on this one) and by putting the final touches on my gear belt (lost some time there while I was using stuff I had laying around...now I have almost all the "good stuff"). I am very interested in going to the next level and trying to run soem regional type matches and see where I stand so I don't want to have any handicaps...just lose time because of my own skills (or lack-of), not because of subpar gear.

So here I am asking advice from seasoned 3 gunners about which rifle set-up to get/build.

First the lower:

I am very capable of building my own lower (have built many) so I would rather just buy an upper and mate it with my own lower. I already have the stripped lower but am undecided on which stock and buffer to use. I am a fan of the different Magpul stocks so I am wondering if I should use an ACS, UBR or just go with a standard rifle stock? I am also thinking about using a JP trigger group.

Now the upper:

I am seriously looking at the JP complete uppers. I am thinking the 18" with rifle gas is the perfect combo. Is this upper with their low mass BCG the hot ticket? Would I need to use their low mass buffer with this upper? Will using this type of upper dictate certain types of stocks to use (i.e. a slightly heavier stock like the ACS or UBR)?

Any other tips or advice anyone can offer will be much appreciated...thanks for helping out a newbie

[GorillaTactical]

Howdy all...I am new to this forum and have been shooting 3 gun since the beginning of this year and have been doing pretty well at the local level. My local range does outlaw run-what-you-brung type matches and I have been consistently top 5 if not top 3 and have actually won quite a few individual stages along the way. I have been shooting a G34, initially an XCR but then switching to a BCM 14.5" AR, and my M1S90 to this point. My 34 has been great but I have lost a few rifle and shotty stages due to my "basic" equipment. I am looking to wring out everything I can from a new rifle and shotty (thinking Benny on this one) and by putting the final touches on my gear belt (lost some time there while I was using stuff I had laying around...now I have almost all the "good stuff"). I am very interested in going to the next level and trying to run soem regional type matches and see where I stand so I don't want to have any handicaps...just lose time because of my own skills (or lack-of), not because of subpar gear.

So here I am asking advice from seasoned 3 gunners about which rifle set-up to get/build.

First the lower:

I am very capable of building my own lower (have built many) so I would rather just buy an upper and mate it with my own lower. I already have the stripped lower but am undecided on which stock and buffer to use. I am a fan of the different Magpul stocks so I am wondering if I should use an ACS, UBR or just go with a standard rifle stock? I am also thinking about using a JP trigger group.

Now the upper:

I am seriously looking at the JP complete uppers. I am thinking the 18" with rifle gas is the perfect combo. Is this upper with their low mass BCG the hot ticket? Would I need to use their low mass buffer with this upper? Will using this type of upper dictate certain types of stocks to use (i.e. a slightly heavier stock like the ACS or UBR)?

Any other tips or advice anyone can offer will be much appreciated...thanks for helping out a newbie

If you search the forum for JP related posts you will find more detailed info...but suffice to say that JP is high on the list when it comes to 3 gun stuff....the 18" with rifle gas, adjustable gas block, LMOS buffer and carrier or a variation thereof (or similarly designed products) seem to be people's favorite when it comes to hoser style 3 gunning. you don't need all the parts (gas block, carrier, buffer) to have it work, but most say it works the best all together.

Your stock choice which is part of the lower shouldn't be influenced by the system in your upper....i've run a carbine and rifle length buffer system with my upper (which is not a jp one but uses lots of their parts)...I use ACS...my buddy uses the CBR...and say, the Noveske guys run PRS stocks from what I've seen so any and all should work fine, but note that if you want to use the JP lightened Buffer, you will need to have a rifle length buffer tube as JP (at least to the best of my knowledge) doesn't sell a carbine length model.

As per triggers...again, search for single stage trigger and u should find a big pole with people saying what they use.

good luck

[diversmith]

Howdy all...I am new to this forum and have been shooting 3 gun since the beginning of this year and have been doing pretty well at the local level. My local range does outlaw run-what-you-brung type matches and I have been consistently top 5 if not top 3 and have actually won quite a few individual stages along the way. I have been shooting a G34, initially an XCR but then switching to a BCM 14.5" AR, and my M1S90 to this point. My 34 has been great but I have lost a few rifle and shotty stages due to my "basic" equipment. I am looking to wring out everything I can from a new rifle and shotty (thinking Benny on this one) and by putting the final touches on my gear belt (lost some time there while I was using stuff I had laying around...now I have almost all the "good stuff"). I am very interested in going to the next level and trying to run soem regional type matches and see where I stand so I don't want to have any handicaps...just lose time because of my own skills (or lack-of), not because of subpar gear.

So here I am asking advice from seasoned 3 gunners about which rifle set-up to get/build.

First the lower:

I am very capable of building my own lower (have built many) so I would rather just buy an upper and mate it with my own lower. I already have the stripped lower but am undecided on which stock and buffer to use. I am a fan of the different Magpul stocks so I am wondering if I should use an ACS, UBR or just go with a standard rifle stock? I am also thinking about using a JP trigger group.

Now the upper:

I am seriously looking at the JP complete uppers. I am thinking the 18" with rifle gas is the perfect combo. Is this upper with their low mass BCG the hot ticket? Would I need to use their low mass buffer with this upper? Will using this type of upper dictate certain types of stocks to use (i.e. a slightly heavier stock like the ACS or UBR)?

Any other tips or advice anyone can offer will be much appreciated...thanks for helping out a newbie

If you search the forum for JP related posts you will find more detailed info...but suffice to say that JP is high on the list when it comes to 3 gun stuff....the 18" with rifle gas, adjustable gas block, LMOS buffer and carrier or a variation thereof (or similarly designed products) seem to be people's favorite when it comes to hoser style 3 gunning. you don't need all the parts (gas block, carrier, buffer) to have it work, but most say it works the best all together.

Your stock choice which is part of the lower shouldn't be influenced by the system in your upper....i've run a carbine and rifle length buffer system with my upper (which is not a jp one but uses lots of their parts)...I use ACS...my buddy uses the CBR...and say, the Noveske guys run PRS stocks from what I've seen so any and all should work fine, but note that if you want to use the JP lightened Buffer, you will need to have a rifle length buffer tube as JP (at least to the best of my knowledge) doesn't sell a carbine length model.

As per triggers...again, search for single stage trigger and u should find a big pole with people saying what they use.

good luck

Thanks for the info.

I am a single stage guy for everything but a true precision rig so I am set on a single stage for this build.

If I go with a collapsable stock (I really like the ACS as a happy medium) and the JP upper with low mass bolt, which carbine buffer is recommended?

[GorillaTactical]

Thanks for the info.

I am a single stage guy for everything but a true precision rig so I am set on a single stage for this build.

If I go with a collapsable stock (I really like the ACS as a happy medium) and the JP upper with low mass bolt, which carbine buffer is recommended?

I run a stock buffer with the weights removed because most companies don't make carbine buffers which come lightened.

[jaredr]

diversmith - curious to know what you feel is holding you back with your current BCM upper? you mentioned it's a 14.5 - is that 14.5 with a permanently pinned flash-hider to bring it to 16" or do you have an NFA-registered lower? If the latter, you may do well just putting a good comp on the barrel, getting a magnified optic, and running it as is. if it's a permanently mounted flash-hider, then you're SOL on the easy change-out of your muzzle device...

[pjb45]

Give Jim a call at Firebird Precision. He has great uppers and lowers. Look to him for good straight advice.

[diversmith]

diversmith - curious to know what you feel is holding you back with your current BCM upper? you mentioned it's a 14.5 - is that 14.5 with a permanently pinned flash-hider to bring it to 16" or do you have an NFA-registered lower? If the latter, you may do well just putting a good comp on the barrel, getting a magnified optic, and running it as is. if it's a permanently mounted flash-hider, then you're SOL on the easy change-out of your muzzle device...

It's a pinned and welded carbine gas gun with an Aimpoint. Hardly ideal for fast 3 gunning. I recently purchased a TR24G and a Leupold MRT 1.5-5 Illum. and have them all mounted up and ready to go with cat tails. I have been using them on my DennysGuns middy AR trying to see what I prefer out of the two. I really want to have a dedicated 3 gun rifle that is set-up perfect.

I actually built the BCM carbine for my wife since she is also shooting matches with me. She hated the XCR since it is front heavy and she is very petite. I built the AR as light and short as possible for her but I started using it after she got pregnant and couldn't shoot. Our summertime matches here in Vegas are at night so I slapped a TLR-1 on her rifle and it is a perfect rifle for home defense so I just used it all summer for a little HD/SD practice and wringing out the the build. Needless to say the BCM ran perfect. I have decided to sell off my two XCRs (they just don't shoot as smooth as ARs for competition) and completely convert over to the AR platform. I now have 4 complete lowers with several uppers in .223 and .204 and another stripped lower waiting to be built into the 3 gun rifle.

I just want to have a rifle and shotty that leaves nothing to be desired and won't cost me time...I have no problem living with my own mistakes but it irritates me when I lose a stage because I just needed one more round in my shotty or my rifle doesn't have a smooth recoil impulse and it slows me down.

My wife shoots a Gen 4 17 and does really well with my M1, so by going all AR platform our spare parts, ammo and mag situation is greatly simplified for rifle, pistol and shotty once she starts shooting again after January.

BTW...thanks for all of the advice so far

[Jesse Tischauser]

The JP upper with sm 18" barrel is a great choice. I have one myself. If you plan to shoot irons I'd get a 20". The guys at JP can line you out on buffer requirements when you order.

Edited October 3, 2010 by jtischauser

[ClutchUSMC]

I use the JP trigger in my 3G rifle and love it. It's easy to install, and required very little fitting. I don't have any experience with the "drop-in" units but with the jp you can adjust it however you like. My barrel is a 18in SS Krieger that is contoured to the same specs as the MK12, I got it for a song off a guy whose project was getting parted out before he even finished it. I have run the ACS, EMOD, and an A1 stock on the rifle and I like the ACS and EMOD about the same, and both more than the A1. I have the battery tubes full on the ACS, stock thats on it now, and I feel like it balances out the gun for me a bit, by putting the weight back there. As for bolt and buffer, I use a chrome young NM FA carrier and the bolt that came with the barrel, its supposed to have been cut/head spaced for the chamber, and a spikes ST-T2 heavy buffer, has tungsten powder or something in it, really cuts down on recoil IMO.

[warpspeed]

If you want to build your own lower, I'd suggest staring with this : JP Lower w/ Fire controls installed

[Larry White]

One stop shopping, 361-241-1091, thats Benny at Triangle. Rifle and shotgun. Lots of Benny ARs out there winning and finishing high in major matches. You can spend more, you just cant get better.----------Larry