WWB 9mm powder

[walsh]

I pulled 10 bullets from Walmart Winchester White Box 100 packs as they seem pretty hot but I don't have a chronograph yet.

I found that the OAL was 1.154-1.157. In pulling 10 bullets I obtained 32 grains of powder, which means an avg of 3.2 gr per round. I didn't drop any powder or leave any in the puller.

I had thought they were loaded with Win 231 which I have read is virtually identical to HP-38 and they are next to each other on the powder chart. But 3.2 gr appears to be way off.

Looking at the Hornady manual, a 115 has Win 231 listed at 4.1 gr (1000 fps) up to 4.7 gr (1100 fps).

Online, Hodgdon reads for HP-38: 115 GR. LRN Hodgdon 1.100" 4.3 1079 fps 4.8 1135 fps

I have not opened another case of WWB from Walmart, but from the recoil I don't doubt the rounds I pulled exceed the PF based on recoil.

Would anyone have any ideas on what powder might be in the bullets I pulled? I'm not trying to duplicate it, but rather was puzzled to find only 3.2 grains.

Thanks in advance,

Walsh

Edited September 28, 2010 by walsh

[The_Vigilante]

A lot of companies use "blended" powder" which is not available retail. Proprietary information.

[gng4life]

That's correct, they don't use off-the-shelf powders that we use so there is no need to figure out their powders.

[G-ManBart]

Some sort of non-canister grade powder that we very likely don't have access to. The big OEM's load ammo using powder volume, not weight, so it's a major departure from how we load. R,

[walsh]

Thanks for the replies

Walsh

[Maksim]

The ammo is a tad hot. Glad you pulled a few to confirm... but surprised... 3.1 grains. heh.

I use 4.8 grains in my 115 load with W231... and the powder did seem different shooting than WWB.

WWB left flakes of crap in the gun. W231 did not.

[Kevin G.]

Some sort of non-canister grade powder that we very likely don't have access to. The big OEM's load ammo using powder volume, not weight, so it's a major departure from how we load. R,

Isn't the way we meter powder actually by volume too? We just describe the required volume of a given powder by it's weight.

Am I missing something? Could the 10 cases he pulled have had differing weights of powder in them all equaling the same volume?

[G-ManBart]

Some sort of non-canister grade powder that we very likely don't have access to. The big OEM's load ammo using powder volume, not weight, so it's a major departure from how we load. R,

Isn't the way we meter powder actually by volume too? We just describe the required volume of a given powder by it's weight.

Am I missing something? Could the 10 cases he pulled have had differing weights of powder in them all equaling the same volume?

Not exactly. Right now I'm working up a load with SP2 and, by total coincidence, I'm at 10.8gr. My N105 load is at 10.85gr and takes up way more case volume. They both produce similar velocities. The two weigh almost the same, but the volume is significantly different. An OEM could blend one or both so that they take up the same volume, have different weights, but produce the same pressure/velocity. We just don't have that option. R,

[Jim Watson]

3.2 gr in a full power 9mm indicates a VERY fast burning powder; faster than ADI AS30N which is the second fastest on the burn rate chart and the fastest I could find load data for.

But this is their economy line of ammo and saving a grain of powder per round will mount up over millions sold. So it pays them to have St Marks run off a supply of the fastest powder that will deliver a reasonable velocity at maximum chamber pressure. As said, it is bulk powder without the standardization of cannister powder sold retail. The next shipment might be a little different and you would find 3.4 grains.

[Kevin G.]

Some sort of non-canister grade powder that we very likely don't have access to. The big OEM's load ammo using powder volume, not weight, so it's a major departure from how we load. R,

Isn't the way we meter powder actually by volume too? We just describe the required volume of a given powder by it's weight.

Am I missing something? Could the 10 cases he pulled have had differing weights of powder in them all equaling the same volume?

Not exactly. Right now I'm working up a load with SP2 and, by total coincidence, I'm at 10.8gr. My N105 load is at 10.85gr and takes up way more case volume. They both produce similar velocities. The two weigh almost the same, but the volume is significantly different. An OEM could blend one or both so that they take up the same volume, have different weights, but produce the same pressure/velocity. We just don't have that option. R,

Thanks G-ManBart,

to the OP....sorry for the mini hijack

[jtaylor996]

I actually chronoed WWB about two days ago. It's pretty dang hot, like 140pf. See my thread about the XTP + titegroup loads for the data.