CZ Limited / Open VS S_I limited / Open Gun?

[muahdib4]

In Limited the Tanfo Limited looks great and the new flat trigger from Henning would be nice and it's around the $1000 mark and ready to go...but...the barrel is less than 5 inches. The CZ TS has a longer barrel at nearly 6 inches but is really heavy.

The Limited barrel is barely less than 5", and the TS barrel isn't much longer than 5". (125mm/~4.92" versus 130mm/~5.12". The difference is about 3/16".)

The weights would be pretty close with the same configuration; Tanfoglio doesn't appear to make a standard full-length-dustcover Limited any more; you can either get a short-dustcover Limited or a Limited Custom, which has a full-length-dustcover but also sports a lightened slide with a different barrel. The result is that either Tanfo is spec'ed at 1200g (2.64lb) while the TS is listed at 1270g (2.80lb). (FWIW, my personal TS weighs in at 3.125lb with an empty magazine.)

If you're after a lighter solution and can accept a shorter barrel, the choice would probably be a Tanfoglio Stock II; it starts out a little lighter than a Tanfo Limited, and it would slim down more if you cut back the dustcover and/or lighten the slide a little. Convert it to SAO and slap a Henning magwell on it and you'd be GTG.

Now, I don't actually own one but the CZ-Custom website lists the CZ TS as having a 5.4 inch barrel and weigh 2.8lbs and the EAA sight lists the Witness Elite Limited with a 4.75 inch barrel and weighing 39 ounces (roughly 2.7lbs). Not sure how that works since there seems to only be a single ounce difference in weight but .65 inches of extra barrel and dustcover. Though, the EAA Limited does come with a mag well and such. Either way, it all really comes down to feel and comfort for each individual shooter. I'm sure both are great guns and would be good choices. Though I'd have a CTS conversion done to a TS to save weight and such...plus they look REALLY good that way.

[Walküre]

Now, I don't actually own one but the CZ-Custom website lists the CZ TS as having a 5.4 inch barrel and weigh 2.8lbs and the EAA sight lists the Witness Elite Limited with a 4.75 inch barrel and weighing 39 ounces (roughly 2.7lbs). Not sure how that works since there seems to only be a single ounce difference in weight but .65 inches of extra barrel and dustcover.

I grabbed the specs directly from the manufacturers, not the importers. Hence the metric values. The Limited is stated to have a 5mm shorter barrel while weighing in 70g less, comparing published data from Tanfoglio (themselves) and CZ-UB (themselves).

Though, the EAA Limited does come with a mag well and such.

The TS does too, just a small one. Actually, both are rather small, because both guns are designed for IPSC Standard. Those who run them in USPSA Limited usually swap the magwell immediately to a larger one (an Angus piece for the CZ, and a Henning piece on the Tanfo) since we aren't limited by a box.

[redbird1976]

For what it's worth, regarding the weight of the CZ, I did a test the other day to see if I was losing time on transitions. I have a Kimber TenII that I've shot for years set up with a .22 lr conversion kit. It's very light; more than half as light as the CZ. My transitions with the Kimber were .25 seconds. I shot the same drill with the CZ, and my transitions were .25 seconds. I've found that the CZ tracks very well regardless of the weight.

[NOSAJ19]

Ok, I shot a CZ Tactical Sport 40, converted to 357sig. That's how we roll in Australia (unfortunately). The gun was box stock with exception of caliber conversion. It's increadably accurate & handles major with ease. I ran a heavy recoil spring to save the frame being smashed. Things I did not like about the gun. It's massive & would need to be trimmed to fit an average hand. Safetys are too low. Slide is narrower than the frame (feels like 75B slide mounted on a bigger TS frame) & required grip tape behind the front sight to give a positive gripping point for racking

Tanfoglio Limited Custom is a better fit for me, however converting to 357sig is currently a PITA & not worth the effort. The Tanfoglio addresses all the issues I have with the TS. Unfortunately, the TS is addictive.

[burningsquirrels]

what rear sight did it have? i used the stock fixed rear as my slide racker, lol

[Marv Z]

Both the CZ and Tangfoglio's are excellent pistols and can be used successfully in either Open or Limited. I ran a Tangfoglio in Open for several years and my daughter currently is using one built on the small frame. They require a slightly different receipe then STI/SVI based guns and parts are a lot harder to come by. The really problem with them (other then parts availability) is the lack of support from the factory's here in the U.S. Tangfoglio won't sell direct to anyone in the U.S.(only thru EAA) and EAA can be near impossible to work with. CZ stuff seems to be pretty much controlled by Angus who is easy enough to work with but if he doesn't it have you are pretty much out of luck. Nice guns, work well, durability is ok (not great)but the lack of support makes the other platforms a smarter(?) choice.

After my experience with EAA and parts availability, I sold both my Limited and Stock 2 and went with an STI. I'd never go back again. The lack of parts, accessories and there magazine problems pushed me away.

[Walküre]

It's massive & would need to be trimmed to fit an average hand.

My hands are about average, and I certainly don't see any real problems with the TS's girth

in actual use. I run a thin aluminum grip on the RHS and a custom grip built up with clay (over an aluminum grip panel) on the LHS.

Safetys are too low.

The "Angus-ized" LHS safety actually has its thumb-pad higher, ending at the top of safety instead of about halfway up.

Slide is narrower than the frame (feels like 75B slide mounted on a bigger TS frame) & required grip tape behind the front sight to give a positive gripping point for racking

I don't have any problems racking it any which-way, but you will never, ever get me to run anything resembling a heavy spring in any of my competition guns, especially the TS. (I have stabilized on a 12# for my TS running 173PF.) I'm still disappointed that my Shadow can't consistently run with an 8# (I had to go back up to a 10#; with the 8# it wouldn't always fully strip the cartridge from the mag.)

what rear sight did it have? i used the stock fixed rear as my slide racker, lol

The stock TS rear does work well for that purpose.

[Torogi]

I got to throw this is, excuse for the slide thread drift, in comparison to CZ and S_I grip, why is it with Angus and Grauffel that their weak hand index finger is infront of the trigger guard? Is it because of the design of the guard that it is downward rounded compared to the polymer S_I grips that it is more squarish, higher and of course can be trimmed.

[burningsquirrels]

grip is 100% subjective and preference. they do that because it works for them. i have a completely different grip too, mostly because of the slide in frame design. i grip it with my left thumb almost flush to the top of the slide. i find it moves the center of pressure above the trigger instead of the middle of the grip.

not the best video or stage but it does show the gun running pretty flat.

Edited September 28, 2010 by burningsquirrels

[Torogi]

yeah i figure grip is subjective, but with 3 CZ/clone shooters having almost the same grip, Tyc, Grauffel and Hobdel, i mean can it be still personal preference?

[burningsquirrels]

yes, because i've seen plenty of CZ/clone shooters that do not.

[NOSAJ19]

what rear sight did it have? i used the stock fixed rear as my slide racker, lol

Same, fixed rear sight. Yeah, I've seen others use the sight as a slide racker.

Cheers, Ando.

[Walküre]

yeah i figure grip is subjective, but with 3 CZ/clone shooters having almost the same grip, Tyc, Grauffel and Hobdel, i mean can it be still personal preference?

Note that they are all European.

The finger-on-the-triggerguard grip currently has a stronger following in Europe than the States. Apparently, it used to be in favor here as well, several decades ago...

If it was truly some super-amazing thing - and not personal - then all of the top shooters would be using it, not just a very select few.

(ETA - Yes, I know that Hobdell lives in the US now and shoots for CZ-USA. But he didn't grow up here or start shooting here.)

Edited September 29, 2010 by Walküre

[burningsquirrels]

i think todd jarrett mentioned in one of his videos that it used to be the way they taught ipsc in the 80's or something, wrapping the weak index like that. maybe it's a mark of being old school, lol.

like i said before. at the end of the day it's whatever works for you.

Edited September 29, 2010 by burningsquirrels

[Neomet]

TS as a Limited gun?? Nah, who would ever want one of those things?

Just a very different feeling gun than an S_I. Heavy, even after cutting them down. Some will like it, some won't. Rumor has it that Grams has a kit to put in Angus's mags that will give you 21 reloadable. Mine does 20 reloadable easily.