Low Light Stages

[SinistralRifleman]

Some major matches like to have low light stages. I agree these are fun, challenging, and a good practical shooting test.

What don't I like about the execution of many is being forced to use a provided light when I have my own on my guns and I keep those lights on my guns at all times. I've heard similar complaints from other competitors. There aren't many opportunities to actually use our equipment in low light conditions so when I get handed a G2 Nitrolon and I'm told I have to use this when I have an X200 on my Glock its pretty irritating.

I understand having lights available for competitors to use who don't have their own. Ironman 3 Gun dealt with this the best this year in having a Surefire rep on the stage with a dozen different lights for people to try based on the guns they were using.

The only requirement we might consider for people who do want to use their own lights is that it must be on their gun for every other stage of the match.

[High Lord Gomer]

I did something similar last year. I made sure the following notice went out ahead of time:

Wild, Wonderful Bill left me the keys for the match this month and we're going to have some fun. I haven't figured out if it will be every stage or not, but there will be some low/no light stuff so bring your flashlight, laser, glow-in-the-dark friend…whatever it takes for you to shoot well in the dark. If you have a rail mounted light on your pistol but no holster for that combo, don't worry, you'll be able to retrieve it from a nightstand (though it may be faster if you have an appropriate holster).

Also, the good guys and the bad guys will not be very easy to tell apart, just as they wouldn't when going through your dark house at night. I might even figure out a way to for them to change places for every shooter while still presenting roughly the same scenario. You'll either cuss me, laugh at me, or both after the match…but it will be something different.

[ATAS]

Let me just start out by saying I think every good rifle should have a light and maybe a laser. You can't be ATAS without one! I don't have a problem with you using your light if I can use my NVG's. I'll even leave them on the entire match.

Edited August 23, 2010 by ATAS

[SinistralRifleman]

Let me just start out by saying I think every good rifle should have a light and maybe a laser. You can't be ATAS without one! I don't have a problem with you using your light if I can use my NVG's. I'll even leave them on the entire match.

LOL sure...we'll just clip the shot clock to your gear and send you in. If you shoot in no light, with a suppressor and the clock doesn't read any shots fired your stage time will be 0 and you'll get the cardboard assassin award.

[Joe4d]

If you say, Low light or no light stages in the match announcement and let people show up with what they want. If they dont bring a light ? Oh well sucks for them, better beg borrow or steal one, Cant speak for other sports and you didnt mention a specific game but if it is USPSA and you attach a light to the gun, Welcome to open, If your shooting Open the rules say attaching a light is allowed. an on that token a match director cant tell you not to use one either.

[Joe4d]

If you say, Low light or no light stages in the match announcement and let people show up with what they want. If they dont bring a light ? Oh well sucks for them, better beg borrow or steal one, Cant speak for other sports and you didnt mention a specific game but if it is USPSA and you attach a light to the gun, Welcome to open, If your shooting Open the rules say attaching a light is allowed. an on that token a match director cant tell you not to use one either.

[mda]

The only requirement we might consider for people who do want to use their own lights is that it must be on their gun for every other stage of the match.

Rules only allow flashlights attached to the gun in Open division See appendix D1. I also think the there is a rule that states you can not add or remove anything to the gun once the match starts. ie: flashlights, Slide rackers ect. Just could not find it.

MDA

Edited August 24, 2010 by mda

[Outsydlooknin75]

What about wearing an LED light on your ball cap?

[SinistralRifleman]

Rules only allow flashlights attached to the gun in Open division See appendix D1. I also think the there is a rule that states you can not add or remove anything to the gun once the match starts. ie: flashlights, Slide rackers ect. Just could not find it.

MDA

I'm not referring to USPSA 3 Gun, only outlaw matches. But for the record I have spent most of the past 4 years competing in Open at outlaw 3 Gun matches (which often do not prohibit lights on handguns at all) when Trooper was not an available equipment division. I have been told I can't use the light I've had on my gun the entire match when competing in Open.

[StealthyBlagga]

I designed all the stages for SMM3G 2010, which included a low-light stage. Stage 6 "Fire Magic" started with long range rifle, transitioned to hoser rifle and ended with pistol in a pitch black dark house. I stipulated that the competitor was NOT permitted to use their own light for a couple of reasons.

1) Practical shooting is about solving problems. I see value in testing the competitor's ability to adapt to equipment limitations such as being handed a flashlight they have never used before and using it to clear a dark house.

2) A few 3-gunners may indeed run weapon-mounted lights routinely, but the vast majority do not. If we allowed competitors to use their own lights, there was a risk that people would have been futzing around with Rube Goldberg contraptions for securing lights to their hats, arms, pistols etc. This can create a real safety concern, with duct tape coming off at the wrong moment, pistol/flashlight combos not fitting in holsters properly and so on.

3) The stage was ideally suited to sponsorship by SureFire, who's generosity meant that the hard working ROs from Stage 6 got to keep the flashlights at the end of the match

In this case, the dark house was a pretty small part of the whole stage, and a weapon-mounted light probably would not have shaved off much time - maybe 1 or 2 seconds off a stage that averaged around 60 seconds to complete.

[SinistralRifleman]

1) Practical shooting is about solving problems. I see value in testing the competitor's ability to adapt to equipment limitations such as being handed a flashlight they have never used before and using it to clear a dark house.

2) A few 3-gunners may indeed run weapon-mounted lights routinely, but the vast majority do not. If we allowed competitors to use their own lights, there was a risk that people would have been futzing around with Rube Goldberg contraptions for securing lights to their hats, arms, pistols etc. This can create a real safety concern, with duct tape coming off at the wrong moment, pistol/flashlight combos not fitting in holsters properly and so on.

A simple rule of it must be on your gun the whole match if you want to use it in the dark house would address those concerns.

3 Gunners often don't have lights on their guns because 1) it is rarely required, and 2) when it is they can't use their own.

If this is PRACTICAL shooting, it doesn't get much more practical than having a light on your pistol/rifle/shotgun

In this case, the dark house was a pretty small part of the whole stage, and a weapon-mounted light probably would not have shaved off much time - maybe 1 or 2 seconds off a stage that averaged around 60 seconds to complete.

One of the major benefits I see in competition is the ability to test equipment in a controlled environment. If we more regularly had low light stages where competitors could use their own lights, we would likely see advances in flashlight technology, ergonomics, mounting systems etc the same way we see it in every other aspect of firearms accessories as used in the sport.

[StealthyBlagga]

One of the major benefits I see in competition is the ability to test equipment in a controlled environment. If we more regularly had low light stages where competitors could use their own lights, we would likely see advances in flashlight technology, ergonomics, mounting systems etc the same way we see it in every other aspect of firearms accessories as used in the sport.

You might want to find out if Phoenix Rod & Gun Club still runs their low-light matches in the winter. I have not been for a few years, but they used to run an entire match after dark with pistol and sometimes carbine too. You could run with any light you wanted. Once I brought no light at all, relying only on the faint ambient light level and the Tritium sights of my Glock 27 carry gun... I won the match

Edited August 24, 2010 by StealthyBlagga

[SinistralRifleman]

Once I brought no light at all, relying only on the faint ambient light level and the Tritium sights of my Glock 27 carry gun... I won the match

[toothandnail]

The most fun 3G match I've ever shot was a TOTAL dark match the only lights allowed were what the shooter had, you could use red when going between stages, and there was a indoor lit commons area.

Everbody sure figured out pretty quick what gear worked and what didn't, and that mounting position made ALOT of difference.