Cain't Get No Power Satisfaction

[GForceLizard]

Let's see, you were DQ'd because the match chrono read 7PF lower than your home chrono. Chrono a 0.1gr or 0.2gr more. Or are you sure it was a temperature related difference?

[DWFAN]

896 is cutting it close. How many rounds did you chrono ? I would probably go 3.5-3.6 and see what that does for you.

[imhntn]

I chronoed 10 rds. My chrono did agree with the match one after I got home from the match. I did buy a new chrono just like they used in the match also to make sure I was getting an accurate reading.

[Bob DuBois]

Solo is very heat sensitive, had you been able to cool your ammo a little it would have passed.

Did a little test a month ago, 96 degree day. Brought out some minor nine loaded 4.2gns 147 PD bullet 1.135 OAL.

Placed six rounds on the tail gate of my PU while setting up the chronograph.

Shot six rounds from my bag averaged 130PF. Shot the six from the tail gate that were in the sun about 10min averaged 124PF. They were all loaded at the same time, same load.

The latest batch of Solo I purchased Lot 1930 2-02-10, takes quite a bit more powder to make PF that the older jug I had, sorry I don't have the old jug to get the lot number off of.

Shot with an STI Trojan, my Glock 34 will run a little faster but didn't have it with me that day.

I shoot mostly local matches and am please with Solo, were I traveling very far think I would use Vito 320 or tite group.

I'm very pleased with the recoil and the groups my gun will shoot with Solo 1000 but it can be a pain in the .....

[Jaxshooter]

I have used N-320 for years and never had a problem with it being temp sensitive. I live in FL and have chronoed it from 50-95 degrees.

[Powder Finger]

twodownzero, on 20 August 2010 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yes you can. Any safe load at 163 pf is gonna be safe at 170 pf. And any that is safe at 122 pf will be safe at 130.

The recommendations exist to keep us within a safe range. That doesn't mean that a slight amount over max will result in a blown up gun.

Maybe it's taken me years of reloading to realize this, but the actual limit of safety is way beyond anything in a reloading manual.

Older loading manuals differ from new ones by 10-15%, even for the same powder. I wouldn't call it wise to test the engineering factor, but it'd be silly to deny its existence.

That's overly simplistic, some is simply false, and some based upon incomplete reasoning or knowledge/experience. I didn't really want to comment, but this is a safety issue that shouldn't be put out there like it's fact.

If you have a load that is at max pressure at 163PF, and you bump it to 170PF, it very well may be truly unsafe, enough to cause case failures (at least). Catastrophic failures like barrels bursting aren't likely, but not impossible, in this sort of scenario. Take something like a heavy bullet with a very fast powder (most .40 Major loads, for example), and the margins are already very thin....just a few small factors coming into play, with a load that was just "bumped up a little" and boooom, things get ugly.

The "slight amount" over really doesn't apply to this thread since data for Solo 1000 is well below what is being posted here. Now that Hodgdon has bought Scott, we're all hoping they'll work up some new data, but based upon conversations people have had with the engineers there, we're really operating on our own for a while with heavy bullets in 9mm.

It may have taken you years to realize the limits are beyond the loading manuals, but it shouldn't take you long at all to see that many, many, many loads used in USPSA are already well beyond those book values.

New loading manuals may be different for a number of reasons, and it's not usually just because they feel like being more conservative now...that's clear from manuals that list pressure readings. Most of the differences over time are due to normal lot variations, but sometimes slight changes to the recipe take place.

I agree, You could make major with Win Super lite. But if you loaded to a buffer level, then sell the gun before you do,

cuz it won't be worth much after.

[dsmw5142]

I tried some Vit N320 today. Started with 3.4 grs with the 147 gr cast bullets. Low was 896 fps and high was 906 fps. It sure has more recoil feel than the solo but I guess that could be expected with that much higher velocity. Looks like I have a load that should work in competitions. Would you guys recommend staying where I am with that load or bumping it up another grain just to be sure? Temp was about 85 degrees. I have heard that the N320 is not too temp sensitive. Is that everyone else's experience?

I think you meant 1/10th of a grain (I hope). It sounds like you're in the neighborhood you want to be in...131-133. How is the accuracy? I would probably bump up to 3.5 since that is the listed starting load (Viht load data) for N320 with a cast bullet in that weight range. If you're happy with the results, shoot 10 over the chrono, get an average and figure power factor from that. That will probably put you around a consitent 135PF which is a nice safety cushion.

Edited October 8, 2010 by dsmw5142

[imhntn]

N-320 is getting minor fine but when I shot it on paper it tumbles terribly. I am trying WST right now and it is taking 3.7 gr to get 133 pf but it is also tumbling. I am going to try these loads in some different guns and see if I have the same issue. Maybe it is a problem with the barrel. I loaded up some Berrys 147 plated that I had last week for a match and had no issues with them using N-320. I may have to use the Berrys for match bullets and my cast bullets for practice with some lighter loads of Solo 1000. I never had any tumbling issues with the Solo but just could not get up to power factor consistently. This is getting frustrating. I am going to the range with my son on Friday and taking my 550 with us so we can experiment while the chrono is set up. I am taking a couple more pistols too and we'll see how the loads shoot in them. I'll let you guys know.

[Sarge]

N-320 is getting minor fine but when I shot it on paper it tumbles terribly. I am trying WST right now and it is taking 3.7 gr to get 133 pf but it is also tumbling. I am going to try these loads in some different guns and see if I have the same issue. Maybe it is a problem with the barrel. I loaded up some Berrys 147 plated that I had last week for a match and had no issues with them using N-320. I may have to use the Berrys for match bullets and my cast bullets for practice with some lighter loads of Solo 1000. I never had any tumbling issues with the Solo but just could not get up to power factor consistently. This is getting frustrating. I am going to the range with my son on Friday and taking my 550 with us so we can experiment while the chrono is set up. I am taking a couple more pistols too and we'll see how the loads shoot in them. I'll let you guys know.

Cast nor Berrys would be my first choice. Plenty of folks have had issues with Berrys. I know it may not be what you want to hear but order 1000 Montana Golds and see what your results are. N320 is premium powder and worth every penny. Try a better bullet before you starts looking at the gun as a problem. I have never loaded a round that tumbled but all I have ever loaded is MG or precision molys. Tumbling can be hard to diagnose but usually entails adding a tenth or two to the charge since it occurs most when there is just not enough speed to stabilize the bullet. Good luck and do a search for all the tumbling bullet discussion and see what others have found that worked.

[JeffWard]

I'll have to check mine again, but my Precision Bullet 147gr Molys make 880+FPS all day out of my M&P Pro (5") over 3.5gr of Solo 1000. I load everything to 1.125" for 9mm.

That's 129 PF minimum. But then, I only shoot in FL... I'll have to check as the weather drops to a frigid 50-60 degrees in the next few months!

Jeff

[imhntn]

We took the loader to the range and spent some time chrono'ing loads and got one with 3.7 gr of WST that shot the cast bullets well and made 135 pf. Had to loosen up the crimp, lengthen the OAL a little and cleaned my barrel up. Seemed to be fine in testing at the range so loaded up for a match on Sat and still had tumbling issues. Not near as much but still some tumblers. My son shot the same load in his Glock 34 with no issues whatsoever, loaded up on my loader with same powder and bullets. Something about that CZ does not like those cast bullets. One guy at the OKC Gun Club match on Sat told me he had to shoot .38 super bullets in his to stop the tumbling. I had no tumbling issues with the lighter loads with Solo so I think I will use them up for practice bullets and find a better bullet to use for matches. I may try the .38 super bullets too and see what happens. The saga continues.

[G-ManBart]

I tried some Vit N320 today. Started with 3.4 grs with the 147 gr cast bullets. Low was 896 fps and high was 906 fps. It sure has more recoil feel than the solo but I guess that could be expected with that much higher velocity. Looks like I have a load that should work in competitions. Would you guys recommend staying where I am with that load or bumping it up another grain just to be sure? Temp was about 85 degrees. I have heard that the N320 is not too temp sensitive. Is that everyone else's experience?

If you're going to stick to local matches, you're probably fine...but bumping it to 3.5gr won't hurt anything. If you have any plans of shooting bigger matches, I'd suggest getting it to an average of 925fps or so (roughly 135PF).

Either way, once you've shot a couple hundred, they'll feel "normal" and slight changes won't bother you. N320 is pretty temperature neutral, so I wouldn't worry too much. Still, it's a good idea to chrono some in the coldest weather you expect to see, and maybe somewhere in the middle. That way you'll know what to expect. R,