Hit factors...

[Bill Schwab]

How do you calculate hit factors...I know that you take your time and divide it by your points, but how do you calculate your # of points?

Next question: I read an article awhile ago (can't find it) on how to use hit factors to evaluate how you should approach a stage...for example short quick stages require you to obtain more points and long stages favor a fast time.  Can someone elaborate on how to use hit factors when tackling a stage?

Bill

[Shooter Grrl]

The number of points is your hit factor's percentage of the shooter with the highest hit factor.

Top shooter had 10 hit factor - gets 100% of the point.

You had 5 hit factor - you get 50% of the points.

I can't answer the second portion of your question - that's always been a mystery to me too :-)

[cpty1]

You've got it backwards.  It's points divided by time.  The easiest way to calculate points is to find the total number of points available on a stage then substract from that the number of points you were "down" based on C and D hits, etc, then divide this number by your time.  For example, a stage with six targets (assume two hits on each target) has a total point availability of 60.  If you run the stage in 6 seconds flat, clean (zero points down), your hit factor is 10.  Generally, on stages with a higher hit factor, speed is more critical, whereas on a stage with a lower hit factor, points are more critical.  I don't try to get too tied up in a different approach on stages though.  IMO, you've still got to obtain close to the max number of points available to do well on a stage in most situations.  There are a couple of articles that talk to the points vs accuracy thing....I'll see if I can find them.  If memory serves, Matt Burkett may have one over at his site.

[Bill Schwab]

Still confused...how many points do you count for A, B, C & D shots?

[cpty1]

Depends on whether you're shooting major or minor.

Major - A=5, B=4, C=4, D=2

Minor - A=5, B=3, C=3, D=1

Head over to http://www.uspsa.com and check out the rulebook.  It's all there.

[Flexmoney]

Bill,

Here is the link to article about how  to shoot a stage based on the hit factors.  ctpy1 is right.  It is on Mat Burkett's site.

http://www.mattburkett.com/5.html

But...you will need to understand basic scoring before you go there.  I'll take a shoot at explaining it.  I hope I don't make things worse.

COMSTOCK:

On your basic stage you will have paper and steel to shoot.  The paper will require two hits.  You can shoot the target more than twice, but only the best two hits will count.  The "A" hits count for five points each.  Assuming your two hits are both "A's" then you will have scored the max for this target...10 points.

Now...if you miss.  A miss is worth twice the value of the highest area showing on a target (usually an "A&quot.  So, if you only get one hit on a paper target, then you will incur a "miss penalty" of 10 points.  It gets worse.

On a 10 point target that you get an "A" hit and a miss is scored as 5 points...and a 10 point penalty.  That is a 15 point swing.  

And then...there are the paper targets that somehow don't have any hits on them.  They are score as two misses (-10 and -10 = -20), and you are also hit with a "failure to engage" penalty on that target...another negative 10 points.  For a total of -30.

Steel is similar.  Knock it down for 5 points.  If it is still standing that is a 10 point miss penalty.

On a STAGE...if you have 7 paper (max of 10 points each) and five steel (five points each) there is a total of 95 points available for that stage.

Now lets say that I shoot that stage clean(all "A" hits and all steel) and that I do it in 13 seconds.  I would get all 95 points, divide that by my 13 seconds.  I get a hit factor of 7.3077

Then Bonedaddy comes up to shoot the same stage.  Lets say his front sight fell off.  He ends up shooting the stage in 11 seconds, but has one "A" hit and one "C" hit on each of the seven targets.  His "C" hits are worth 4 points (he shoots major), so he is one point down on each paper...7 points down for the stage.  (95-7=88)  His 88 points are divided by his 11 seconds for a 8.000hf.

So he wins the stage (nobody else showed up to shoot...must have been snowing).  As the stage winner he gets 95 points (the max for that stage).  I would get a percentage of that based on my hit factor compared to his.  (7.3077/8.000 = about 91%)  I would get 91% of the available stage points (95 point stage).

It works out to:

Bonedaddy   95.0000

Flexmoney    86.7789

[Nik Habicht]

Flex,

Great explanation!  Now one question.  If I shoot twice at a paper target (where the course description calls for two hits) and miss both times, why do I get a failure to engage penalty?  I engaged the target, I just did it badly.  Now if I don't see a target, then I see where the penalty would come into play, because I didn't shoot at it.

[Singlestack]

---

Quote: from Nik Habicht on 6:26 pm on Jan. 4, 2002

If I shoot twice at a paper target (where the course description calls for two hits) and miss both times, why do I get a failure to engage penalty?  I engaged the target, I just did it badly.

---

Nik, You don't get a FTG penalty unless you fail to shoot at the target. You can shoot at it once (and miss) and you have fulfilled the engagement requirements.

[Flexmoney]

9.5.9  states:

If a competitior fails to shoot at each target in a course of fire with at least one round, the competitor shall incur one procedural penalty for each target not shot at as well as the appropriate penalties for misses.

So, by the book, if you convince your RO that you shot at the target...and just missed...then it would only be a 20 point penalty.

hmmm

[Singlestack]

I can hear those gaming wheels a-turning....  lol

[DogmaDog]

Heya,

Cpty1 said:

"Generally, on stages with a higher hit factor, speed is more critical, whereas on a stage with a lower hit factor, points are more critical."

What does this mean?  Hit factor is a property of an individual shooter's performance, not a property of a course of fire, right?  I mean, my hit factor can be 0 to infinity (theoretically) on any one course of fire.  

Do you mean "stages with more points available" should be shot faster, and "stages with fewer points available" should be shot more accurately?

Thanks,

DogmaDog

 

[Flexmoney]

DogmaDog,

Check out that link to Matt Burkett's explaination of Comstock factoring that I referenced in the earlier post.  

If you still have questions post here again.  I'll type up some real-world examples.

[Flexmoney]

DogmaDog,

I see from your post on another thread that you already have a good grasp of the Comstock Factoring.

???

[Duane Thomas]

DogmaDog,

The hit factor, when you get right down to it, expresses how many points you've put on target(s) in one second (when you average out points/time at the end of the stage). On a close range speed shoot, obviously you're going to have a higher hit factor than a long field course because you're not doing all the stuff that lowers your hit factor, i.e. running between boxes. All you have to do is stand there and shoot, so you can use essentially all your time, minus draw and reloads of course, shooting points. Therefore standards exercises have higher hit factors than field courses. Does that make the "Generally, on stages with a higher hit factor, speed is more critical, whereas on a stage with a lower hit factor, points are more critical," statement clearer?

[DogmaDog]

Gentlemen,

I think I'm getting wrapped around the axle with some semantics here.  

It sounds like people refer to a stage as having a hit factor (this is a 10 hit factor stage).  But hit factor is a property of my individual run through the stage, and not of the stage itself, unless there's some secret info out there about how fast one "should" shoot this or that stage.

I also don't really know how to put it into practice...do people actually shoot thinking "a C is acceptable"?  I try to shoot all As.  I suppose I could reasonably know not to even try a pick up if I call a marginal shot on a "high hit factor stage" but I'd have to unlearn a lot, and then learn a lot in order to just start blasting C shots downrange at the rapid rate under any circumstance.

Also, my shooting rate is really determined by the difficulty of the immediate shot(s)  (distance and size of target)...I think I'd have a hard time factoring in more "global" considerations...e.g. "lots of running on this stage...I better aim more!"  Do global considerations change your shooting style, or do you just shoot the way immediate conditions (your relation to the target you are engaging) dictate?

Oh, and this from Burkett makes no sense at all to me:  "Divide the factor by the time, and that's the factor -- the amount of time earning a point on that stage should take."  The algebra just doesn't work out.

Anyway, you don't need to explain the math again...I get it.  And thanks for your helpful posts (both here and elsewhere)

Semper Fi,

DogmaDog

[Duane Thomas]

Knowing the High Hit Factor is most helpful on classifiers. If you know for instance that the HHF on the El Presidente is 10.8012 for Limited-10 - which it is - then you can sit down and figure out what combination of points, draw and reload speed, splits and breaks, it will take to give you the score you want to move up in class. Absent that you're just blasting away blind - so to speak. Clue: on most classifiers you don't have to be as fast or as accurate as you'd think to post an A-class or even Master score.

[ErikW]

dogmadog, you are probably confused by the different uses of the term hit factor. Everybody who shoots a course gets their own hit factor. The stage winner is the one with the highest hit factor. When people say, "Oh that stage is gonna be a 10 hit factor speed shoot," they mean the stage winner is going to probably end up with a 10 hit factor for that stage.

Then there's "high hit factor" as it relates to USPSA classifiers, an average of some of the highest hit factors achieved on a particular classifier.

All it is is points per second. Is it worth spending the time to shoot an A? Is it worth making up a C or D hit? Is it worth even engaging the disappearing target? You have to know your abilities before you can ask these questions of a stage. You don't need to factor out stages to have fun or to be competitive. Just shoot As as fast as you can, and accept a small number of errors.

[DogmaDog]

OK, that clears it up a bit.  I'm new enough to IPSC that I haven't joined USPSA, and I haven't thought about classifications.  All I do is shoot the matches as well as I can

Semper Fi,

DogmaDog