Mystery Mountain Gear And Strategies

[ErikW]

How about some tips for a USPSA Limited 3 gunner going to the Superstition Mountain Mystery 3 Gun for the first time?

The rules say, "Paper targets used in the match may be IPSC (old style), the new IPSC “Classic”, SOF, or IDPA Targets" ... Do they really use all? Is there one that's most common? What's a SOF target?

What are the best, or prevalent techniques for paper targets? Just go for two Alphas like it was a USPSA match? Go for an Alpha and double tap? Go for a sure-thing single Alpha? Same for pistol and rifle?

It seems scoring is all about a fast time without a miss or penalty? There's no appreciation for the D part of DVC? Just haul ass (CCC) and don't miss?

I've decided to load down my Limited pistol with a lighter bullet or a lighter powder charge, rather than bring my less-reliable 9mm.

I don't know what rifle load to use, MatchKings or FMJ plinkers. Do they have plenty of targets beyond 100 y?

Are all the stages multi-gun? Are any stages 3 guns requiring a holstered pistol and all spare ammo on the belt?

Can I rearrange the various holders on my belt as needed for the stage? Do I have to keep everything on all the time (holstered pistol, pistol mag holders, rifle mag holders, shotgun shell holders)?

Should I get a Kydex holster for my long/wide STI or should I use my Ghost? (Will we be crawling under barbed wire, doing somersaults, rapelling off a tower?)

Safariland competition holders OK for pistol and rifle mags?

Is this a legal rifle for Tactical-Iron?

Is it still legal with a JP Cooley comp?

How about a shorty with a C-More Scout for Tactical-Scope? Too many long shots for a 4 MOA dot with a wandering zero?

There's no wannabe-tactical goofiness about using cover or doing pedantic mag changes or anything like that?

Do they do any hoser gully runs a la the Desert Classic?

[George]

Hi Erik,

These aren't all of the answers since I haven't been to SSMM3G yet, but I have been to a number of IMG rules matches and have talked to a number of folks about what SMM3G is like and this should cover most of it.

Your rifle is legal as is. A sling is legal for Tac, but a bipod is not.

Here is the holster specification from the rules page:

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Handgun holsters and equipment - Tactical Class

7.2.1  Holsters must be a practical/tactical carry style and must be able to safely retain the handgun during vigorous movement.

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The rules don't seem to say the Ghost would be approved, but I would definitely go with the Kydex option anyway because the better your holster retains your pistol without you having to mind it, the better off you are at this type of match. You probably won't be rapelling, but you will almost certainly be getting down and dirty and doing some climbing, crawling, or something similarly gymnastic. Think about a strong side high and tight holster position too, because the typical USPSA fastdraw position is just gonna get in the way when you have to have a holstered pistol on while using a long gun.

At the RM3G (which is similar in style and rules) there were 1, 2 & 3 gun stages and only the gear appropriate to that stage was required to be worn and I am pretty certain this is true at SMM3G. I don't change gear position for each type of thing and my main belt always has my pistol and rifle mag holders on it in the same positions. The shotgun stuff is kept on a separate belt that is added above, or replaces the other belt as required. The pistol holster will come off for a rifle only stage, but that's about it. Try wearing all of your gear around the house for a bit. Go up and down stairs, kneel, bend, crouch, do chores and such. You will find out what works, and what doesn't pretty quick this way.

Most of the USPSA shooters I met at RM3G ran their standard major PF loading to insure function and familiarity with the recoil. The majority of the folks I have watched shoot, and talked to at IMG scored 3 gun matches I have been to still go for two per target most of the time (except for extenuating circumstances where one A is a better game to play because of a specific circumstance on a stage). With the any two on paper thing I feel its best to try to make sure that at least one is an A and then you are covered for a sloppy second shot, but the reality of this scoring is that you wind up shooting a tad faster and slightly sloppier, just watch out for them pesky target edges.

At the RM3G you would have been screwed with a shorty and a 3-4 MOA dot. There were enough long rifle shots at RM3G to make this a dangerous choice and I have heard that the same is true at SMM3G. Maybe a 1 MOA dot, but certainly not a C-More. BTW, SMM3G uses an approved optics list for scoped rifle in the Tac division, so a non-approved optic/dot will put you in open division for the match and the C-More Scout is the only C-More product on the list.

If you normally use a MatchKing, then I wouldn't change a thing with your rifle load.

I am sure that someone else will have something to add, but this should cover it pretty well.

--

Regards,

[ChandlerSniper158]

Erik,

George did a pretty good job covering your questions. Just one thing I thought I should add.

I don`t think the Ghost is gonna fly if your planning on shooting in Tactical class. In that class holsters and mag carriers have to be work on the midline or behind..al`la Production rules.

7.2.7 Holsters and magazine/speed loader pouches will be worn on the belt at or behind the point of the hip.

I run a Safariland 561 for my SVI with good luck. They come with a spacer so you can fit the full length dustcover with no problems. You might want to look at those. The match is getting closer, and I usually have to wait 4 to 6 weeks to get anything made from Blade-Tech. If you know someone that can make it up quick for you cool. Might wanna figure that out quick.

This is going to be my first SMM3G also. I do have a few friends I shoot at the WC3Gun with that have shot it before, they told me its pretty much a hose-fest compared to that match. Looking forward to getting out there. See ya there.

CS#158

[kellyn]

USPSA targets are the most common paper. An SOF target is much like an IDPA target.

We shot this scoring system all the time at the local Rio Salado rifle match. It is generally better to put 2 shots on the target rather than rely on 1 A hit. If you try the one A eventually you're going to get bit. Now sometimes, I will shot one A on some targets to keep from doing a mag change but that's rare.

Scoring is all about fast hits anywhere on the target. It is not an accuracy oriented match.

As for rifle targets, MM3G tends to have more "intermediate" range (100-150ish yards) shots than most other matches. Expect to be shooting steel plates at those distances. There will probably be a Larue or 2 out to 300 yards but not any further than that. Plinkers should be fine but I tend to shoot quality bullets. Not that I need to but it's a confidence builder. Last year, I shot 40 grainers on most stgaes and 69 SMKs at the longer stages.

I would not run a CMore. You'll be like me last year, you'll kick butt on one or two rifle stages and be slower on the rest. Your rifle looks legal and the BC comp is no problemo.

Lots o multigun action. You can modify your setup as need be. I would shoot (and will be shooting) a "tactical" holster per the rules. As I read the rules, the Ghost is verboten

No tactical goofiness. Expect a gully run or even two as we have 2 gullies.

[ErikW]

Thanks guys. I overlooked the fact my Ghost isn't tactical. I'll borrow a Blade-Tech.

I'll bring both SMKs (mercilessly crimped, ha!) and lesser crap for any short-range-only hoser. 100-150 yards is perfect for my limited rifle shooting ability.

7.2.7 Holsters and magazine/speed loader pouches will be worn on the belt at or behind the point of the hip.

Then I can have my Choate shotshell holders in front where I like them?

[kurtm]

E.W.

SMM3G has never really put any restrictions on where or how shotgun ammo is carried. Kellys asertation that it is a hosefest non accuracy match really is a bit of an oversimplification. Don't forget to bring a modicom of accuracy skills with you, as no shoots abound as do clay birds as shotgun targets and 300yd MGMs or La Rues do need a bit of good old basics to neutralize!

Come to think of it Kelly's thoughts on hosefest/nonaccuracy might explain some of those finishes KURT

[PacMan]

Just got my confirmation letter today. 9 (not 8 like last year) stages of blasting fun!!! I learned my lesson the hard way last year, it is NOT a hose fest (well may be for KellyN, but not me.) Leave a paper target un-neutralized is a +5 seconds penalty, leave a piece of steel standing is a +10 seconds. You can do the math.

[ErikW]

I didn't know what a LaRue target was, so I checked it out. Sweet, much more room for error than a plate.

[PacMan]

I didn't know what a LaRue target was, so I checked it out. Sweet, much more room for error than a plate.

That's the good news, the bad news is that they put these targets at 300 yds

[Mickster]

Three of us SMM 3-Gun newbies will be flying the trek to Mesa from Florida. Thanks for the info and advice so far. We certainly need it.

Is there a favorite hotel you SMM 3-gun veterans prefer and will be staying at? What about favorite eateries? Any suggestions?

Only seven weeks to go. Mostly packed and chompin at the bit already.

[kellyn]

Hey, oversimply this!!!!!!

Compared to North American Tactical and Rocky Mtn. 3 Gun and even 3 Gun Nats, MM3G is a total hosefest. That is not to say that you don't have to aim but I don't remember ever seeing a pistol shot of any difficulty at MM3G. Since all you have to do is hit the paper ANYWHERE twice, 2 Ds is as good as 2 As. You will never see a stage at MM3G like the one at RM3G where we shot all those swingers in the canyon from all sorts of interesting positions. You will never problems like those posed by KyleL with the texas stars and noshoots or the evil sideways rifle shooting stage.

To be fair, they have had some slug shots that required some aiming but those were less challenging than the slug stages at the 3 Gun Nats. where we shot paper with hardcover.

MM3G is more about gun manipulation, shooting fast, and thinking on your feet than accuracy. It's a great match.

(Now having written this I'll probably have 10 mikes and 5 noshoots)

[ChandlerSniper158]

Whoo-Hoo!!! Runnin and gunnin.. AND I have to think about it???? Sounds like fun. I`ll bring my track boots, lotsa bullets and big mags..

CS#158

[Chuck Anderson]

Erik, definitely bring some heavy 223 bullets. The Larue targets have been around 300 yds the last two years. Getting a hit with a 223 is not that difficult but if you're using a light bullet you have to hit it high. I heard more than a few bullet impacts last year from other shooters using 55's, where the Larue just stood still. The other problem I ran into two years ago, with lighter bullets, is that I would call the shot as a hit, hear the impact, then the dang thing wouldn't look like it was moving. About the time I was firing round number two, it would finally start tipping over. They're heavy and slow to drop.

[kurtm]

I can always tell when Kelly has been at the Pumpkin Spiced Porter, he starts to spell like me! The gig on him aside, he does have a point. Two anywhere does neutralize, but you still need that strange looking pointy thing out on the end of the slide/barrel. I have seen lots of really good shooters drop a target or two because of the point and hose thinking instead of the "front sight" hose thinking! It is a faster match but beware! KURT

[TMC]

They did a cool thing with LaRue targets last year. You engaged them at about 125+ yards with your rifle first and then you grabbed your shotgun and strated hosing clays as you ran about 50 yards down range where your last shots were to re-engages thoes same LaRue targets, that had by now reset, with slugs. I though that was a great use of LaRue targets.

As far as shooting a shorty, Beven Grams used a 16" rifle with a red dot for open last year. I think he did ok.

Hey, Erik, if you need a Bladetech for a long dustcover I've got one you can use.

[kellyn]

Agreed. I certainly did not mean that you don't have to aim.

Where to eat? I live near the range and must say that east Mesa is the dregs for good restaurants. There are plenty of the typical corporate places south along Power Rd. Outback, Tony Romas, etc. etc. There is an ok Chinese place on Power south of University on the west side of the road and an inconsistent Japanese place on the east side. East of the range on McDowell Rd and Power, there is a place called Red, White and Brew that's alright if a bit pricey and an ok Japanese place with sushi and teppanyaki. Not anything special though.

Better food is to be found in Tempe and Scottsdale but that's 30 minutes away from the range.

[ErikW]

Mickster, Best Western Superstition Springs. I think it's on Power Rd.

[ErikW]

Ouch, the BW is $109 a night, and that's before the ream-the-tourist tax. Funk dat. I stayed at the Super 8 one year I went to A2DC and it's a dive. The $59 Extended Stay Inn is looking good, but it's another 10 miles or more away from the range.

[rifleguy]

Kelly:

Papa Kelso's is a nice place to eat if you just want sandwiches. It always attracts a crowd after the 2 gun matches. :-)

[kellyn]

They have ok pizza at papa kelsos too.

There is also a Chilis, Panda Express, and MexiKenny's (ycch) at McKellips and Power.

[Zak Smith]

The Best Western Supersitition Springs is full for the 11th-13th, but the Best Western Mesa Inn (480-964-8000) still has rooms available.

-z