gm iprod Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Tom, Where is #6??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) 19 Seniors 17 Women Internationals 12 AUS, 2 CAN, 8 GER, 2 ITA, 9 NZE, 1 NET, 1 JPN US 1 AK, 2 AZ, 9 CA, 2 CT, 1 FL, 4 GA, 3 IA, 2 IL, 2 IN, 14 KS, 1 KY, 8 LA, 2 MD, 2 MI, 1 MN, 5 MS, 1 MT, 1 NJ, 3 NV, 4 NY, 3 OH, 2 OK, 1 OR, 7 PA, 2 TX, 16 VA, 21 MO, 40 Newcomers 40 Multi-Gun I just saw a post of 180 shooters. With 40 Multi-gun, that's 220 squadded slots. That has got to be at or near capacity, even running two movers. I said the at BC 2010 would be one of the best ever. Now if I can just round up 1/2 dozen more VA shooters, since MO has 21! Go MO, and check out KS w/14. Now we're talking, and lets not overlook AUS w/12, NZE w/9, CA w/9 and LA & GER w/8. Now that's an International Shooting Match. Way to go BC organizers, promoters and competitors, and of course the sponsors and the NRA. Edited May 1, 2010 by Allgoodhits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Tom, Where is #6??? I think he is in CA, as you probably know already, we hold the Top 20 Shooters from the previous year. Both # 6 & #16 have not signed up. As of this morning the LATE Entry is $400.00 for both of these shooters. See ya all in a couple of weeks. Tom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) Here is the Competitor List as of Friday Afternoon: Comp# Name Country 1 BRUCE PIATT USA 2 DOUG KOENIG USA 3 JOHN PRIDE USA 4 CARL BERNOSKY USA 5 LUCA MANGANO ITL 7 KEVIN ANGSTADT USA 8 ZELJKO CVETNIC AUS 9 MARK ITZSTEIN USA 10 CRAIG GINGER AUS 11 JULIE GOLOB USA 12 GREG DICK USA 13 KARL PIPER NZE 14 JORDAN DICK USA 15 TONY HOLMES USA 17 DON GOLEMBIESKI USA 18 JASON KOON USA 19 RICHARD SIEBERT AUS 20 ROBERT VADASZ USA 21 MARTIN JOHNSON USA 22 VERA KOO USA 23 DON SMITH USA 24 RICHARD GONSMAN USA 25 VANCE SCHMID USA 26 DAVE SEVIGNY USA 27 MARK WILLS USA 28 CHUCK THOMEY USA 29 JERRY MICULEK USA 30 JOHN DOWELL USA 31 KEN MACARI USA 32 JOHN BIANCHI USA 33 ALAN STRAWN USA 34 GREG DAVIS USA 35 ANNETTE AYSEN USA 36 JACK RAGSDALE USA 37 REX REID USA 38 RUTH CONN USA 39 THOMAS LANGLEY USA 40 ICHIRO NAGATA JPN 41 CORA MUNT NZE 42 ANDREW RAYLAND USA 43 THOMAS BLIZZARD USA 44 TRAVIS HAYTON USA 45 BILL MOORE USA 46 CARROLL PILANT USA 47 PAUL LOFTUS NZE 48 JACOB HILL CAN 49 ROD ERVIN USA 50 HELEN JEAVONS USA 51 GRANT JEAVONS NZE 52 JOANNE FISHER NZE 53 JOHN SANDERS USA 54 SCOTT MILLER USA 55 GARY YANTIS USA 56 RICHARD MUNT NZE 57 LUKE FISHER NZE 58 TIM ALTENBURG USA 59 RALF VANICEK GER 60 MARC KLESER GER 61 MICHAEL SEEKLANDER USA 62 FRANK TAIT AUS 63 TAKEO ISHII JPN 64 GREG SHULTE USA 65 ALAN SAVOIAN USA 66 JOHN KOPPI USA 67 JOHN JAWOR USA 68 ALBERT THENO USA 69 LAURA DAY USA 70 EDWARD JACAVINO USA 71 KIM BECKWITH USA 72 DAVID BLOUGH USA 73 ROBERT MERILLAT USA 74 JIM CLARK USA 75 KYLE SCHMIDT USA 76 A.G. GANT USA 77 BILLIE HUGHES USA 78 JEC CLARK USA 79 CHARLES WEST USA 80 GARY VALENTINO USA 81 GEORGE W.MARTIN USA 82 ROBERT KRANTZ USA 83 VLADIMIR MASHKOVICH USA 84 LES CLARK AUS 85 CHUCK ANDERSON USA 86 ROGER PARRIS NZE 87 MURRAY STEEDMAN NZE 88 TROY MATTHEYER USA 89 MIKE FLAGLER USA 90 JAY GARDNER USA 91 GLENN POLLOCK AUS 92 TIMOTHY THENO USA 93 ANDREA MORONI ITL 94 KC EUSEBIO USA 95 RUSSELL BRYAN CAN 96 THOMAS GLAS GER 97 TRACY HOCKENHULL USA 98 WARREN MOORE USA 99 CLIFTON GADDIS USA 100 R.DAN PAULEY USA 101 JOSEPH MEYERS USA 102 MARTIN PRILLWITZ USA 103 BRIAN CARLSON USA 104 GEORGE MOWBRAY USA 105 BOB BRINKWORTH USA 106 RYAN McQUILTY AUS 107 MICHAEL LAZARUS USA 108 RANDI ROGERS USA 109 MARK OWENSBY USA 110 SCOTT CARNAHAN USA 111 VERNON MCFADDEN USA 112 CHRISTY MCFADDEN USA 113 ENRICO HOOVER NZE 114 JUDITH RAGSDALE USA 115 STEPHEN BRACKNEY USA 116 KENNETH CHAMBERS USA 117 SCOTT SMITH USA 118 JESS CHRISTENSEN USA 119 GREGORY VAN BORSSUM AUS 120 SYDNEY SURGI USA 121 JODI LYALL AUS 122 BRUCE DICKEY USA 123 ALLAN HARRIMAN AUS 124 ALFRED PETERS AUS 125 BENJAMIN BOYETTE USA 126 LOUIS TOMME USA 127 RON LACEY USA 128 GARY BRUMBELOW USA 129 VOLKER SCHONFELD GER 130 DANIEL HAUSERMAN USA 131 DHON HAUSERMAN USA 132 TONY DRABSCH USA 133 BRETT FOSTER AUS 134 KANDI BLICK USA 135 ARNO SCHRICK GER 136 ARND WEINHOLD GER 137 CHRISTOPHER HARPIN USA 138 ALBERT GRECO III USA 139 VOLKER WAGEMEYER GER 140 LANDON ALLEY USA 141 BERND WERKSHAGEN GER 142 BERND GEPPERT GER 143 TIFFANY PIPER NZE 144 MARK SPANGLER USA 145 KENNETH JOHNSON USA 146 DOUG CARDEN USA 147 GARY LEWIS USA 148 TOMOYUKI HASEGAWA JPN 149 JIM STAADER AUS 150 JOHN LINDER USA 151 DOUG ALLEY USA 152 BRIAN BROCKWAY USA 153 CHTISTOPHER YOTZ USA 154 RONALD DEJARNETTE USA 155 CHRIS NUSS USA 156 KELLI SAMPSEL USA 157 MARK ANDREWS USA 158 STEPHEN EMBER USA 159 ZACHARY TEICH USA 160 KELLY GILMORE USA 161 CHIP LOHMAN USA 162 REIN MULDERS NED 163 JEREMY NEWELL USA 164 ANDRE SCHROEDER GER 165 PETER WILLIAMS AUS 166 B.J. NORRIS USA 167 DAVID PERRYMAN USA 168 SHERRY SMITH USA 169 WILLIAM ALEWINE USA 170 KEVIN SANTI USA 171 SHERRIE MEISER USA 172 JERRY MEISER USA 173 MIKE IRVINE USA 174 JOHN SCOUTEN USA 175 JESSIE ABBATE USA 176 BILLY ABBATE USA 177 SHAWN KNIGHT USA 178 MOLLY SMITH USA 179 PHIL STRADER USA 180 DAVE HUFSTEDLER USA 181 LEE ATKINS USA 182 MATTHEW WALSH USMC 183 STEPHEN RYTHER USMC Edited May 3, 2010 by NRAActionPistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Shooter Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Wow.....just another reason to finish well.... Regards #9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stats770 Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 19 Seniors 17 Women Internationals 12 AUS, 2 CAN, 8 GER, 2 ITA, 9 NZE, 1 NET, 1 JPN US 1 AK, 2 AZ, 9 CA, 2 CT, 1 FL, 4 GA, 3 IA, 2 IL, 2 IN, 14 KS, 1 KY, 8 LA, 2 MD, 2 MI, 1 MN, 5 MS, 1 MT, 1 NJ, 3 NV, 4 NY, 3 OH, 2 OK, 1 OR, 7 PA, 2 TX, 16 VA, 21 MO, 40 Newcomers 40 Multi-Gun I just saw a post of 180 shooters. With 40 Multi-gun, that's 220 squadded slots. That has got to be at or near capacity, even running two movers. I said the at BC 2010 would be one of the best ever. Now if I can just round up 1/2 dozen more VA shooters, since MO has 21! Go MO, and check out KS w/14. Now we're talking, and lets not overlook AUS w/12, NZE w/9, CA w/9 and LA & GER w/8. Now that's an International Shooting Match. Way to go BC organizers, promoters and competitors, and of course the sponsors and the NRA. Hi, just had a look at the list after getting home from the practice today; I have done a tote from the list above and can see 14 Australians (AUS) listed and #122 Bruce Dickey (from my club & also an Aussie) listed as "USA". He might have dual citizenship that I don't know about, but that would definitely be news to me! So as far as I can see there are actually 15 of us coming from "Down Under"! Woo Hoo! See you all in 18 days! Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Sadly, you may scratch #63. Work has finally taken a cruel turn and interfered with my Cup participation this year. I will be on travel to Australia for business in the weeks leading up to the cup. If someone from down under can give me some tips on what to do in Rockingham, WA and Adelaide, SA I would appreciate it. Good luck to all competitors. Try this link for Rockingham - it is a great beach suburb.... Adelaide can be a bit cool (temperature wise) in May.. but there are wineries and great food... and about 3 substantial Pistol Clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 (edited) Here is the Competitor List as of this Morning: Comp# Name Country 1 BRUCE PIATT USA 2 DOUG KOENIG USA 3 JOHN PRIDE USA 4 CARL BERNOSKY USA 5 LUCA MANGANO ITL 7 KEVIN ANGSTADT USA 8 ZELJKO CVETNIC AUS 9 MARK ITZSTEIN USA 10 CRAIG GINGER AUS 11 JULIE GOLOB USA 12 GREG DICK USA 13 KARL PIPER NZE 14 JORDAN DICK USA 15 TONY HOLMES USA 17 DON GOLEMBIESKI USA 18 JASON KOON USA 19 RICHARD SIEBERT AUS 20 ROBERT VADASZ USA 21 MARTIN JOHNSON USA 22 VERA KOO USA 23 DON SMITH USA 24 RICHARD GONSMAN USA 25 VANCE SCHMID USA 26 DAVE SEVIGNY USA 27 MARK WILLS USA 28 CHUCK THOMEY USA 29 JERRY MICULEK USA 30 JOHN DOWELL USA 31 KEN MACARI USA 32 JOHN BIANCHI USA 33 ALAN STRAWN USA 34 GREG DAVIS USA 35 ANNETTE AYSEN USA 36 JACK RAGSDALE USA 37 REX REID USA 38 RUTH CONN USA 39 THOMAS LANGLEY USA 40 ICHIRO NAGATA JPN 41 CORA MUNT NZE 42 ANDREW RAYLAND USA 43 THOMAS BLIZZARD USA 44 TRAVIS HAYTON USA 45 BILL MOORE USA 46 CARROLL PILANT USA 47 PAUL LOFTUS NZE 48 JACOB HILL CAN 49 ROD ERVIN USA 50 HELEN JEAVONS USA 51 GRANT JEAVONS NZE 52 JOANNE FISHER NZE 53 JOHN SANDERS USA 54 SCOTT MILLER USA 55 GARY YANTIS USA 56 RICHARD MUNT NZE 57 LUKE FISHER NZE 58 TIM ALTENBURG USA 59 RALF VANICEK GER 60 MARC KLESER GER 61 MICHAEL SEEKLANDER USA 62 FRANK TAIT AUS 63 TAKEO ISHII JPN 64 GREG SHULTE USA 65 ALAN SAVOIAN USA 66 JOHN KOPPI USA 67 JOHN JAWOR USA 68 ALBERT THENO USA 69 LAURA DAY USA 70 EDWARD JACAVINO USA 71 KIM BECKWITH USA 72 DAVID BLOUGH USA 73 ROBERT MERILLAT USA 74 JIM CLARK USA 75 KYLE SCHMIDT USA 76 A.G. GANT USA 77 BILLIE HUGHES USA 78 JEC CLARK USA 79 CHARLES WEST USA 80 GARY VALENTINO USA 81 GEORGE W.MARTIN USA 82 ROBERT KRANTZ USA 83 VLADIMIR MASHKOVICH USA 84 LES CLARK AUS 85 CHUCK ANDERSON USA 86 ROGER PARRIS NZE 87 MURRAY STEEDMAN NZE 88 TROY MATTHEYER USA 89 MIKE FLAGLER USA 90 JAY GARDNER USA 91 GLENN POLLOCK AUS 92 TIMOTHY THENO USA 93 ANDREA MORONI ITL 94 KC EUSEBIO USA 95 RUSSELL BRYAN CAN 96 THOMAS GLAS GER 97 TRACY HOCKENHULL USA 98 WARREN MOORE USA 99 CLIFTON GADDIS USA 100 R.DAN PAULEY USA 101 JOSEPH MEYERS USA 102 MARTIN PRILLWITZ USA 103 BRIAN CARLSON USA 104 GEORGE MOWBRAY USA 105 BOB BRINKWORTH USA 106 RYAN McQUILTY AUS 107 MICHAEL LAZARUS USA 108 RANDI ROGERS USA 109 MARK OWENSBY USA 110 SCOTT CARNAHAN USA 111 VERNON MCFADDEN USA 112 CHRISTY MCFADDEN USA 113 ENRICO HOOVER NZE 114 JUDITH RAGSDALE USA 115 STEPHEN BRACKNEY USA 116 KENNETH CHAMBERS USA 117 SCOTT SMITH USA 118 JESS CHRISTENSEN USA 119 GREGORY VAN BORSSUM AUS 120 SYDNEY SURGI USA 121 JODI LYALL AUS 122 BRUCE DICKEY USA 123 ALLAN HARRIMAN AUS 124 ALFRED PETERS AUS 125 BENJAMIN BOYETTE USA 126 LOUIS TOMME USA 127 RON LACEY USA 128 GARY BRUMBELOW USA 129 VOLKER SCHONFELD GER 130 DANIEL HAUSERMAN USA 131 DHON HAUSERMAN USA 132 TONY DRABSCH USA 133 BRETT FOSTER AUS 134 KANDI BLICK USA 135 ARNO SCHRICK GER 136 ARND WEINHOLD GER 137 CHRISTOPHER HARPIN USA 138 ALBERT GRECO III USA 139 VOLKER WAGEMEYER GER 140 LANDON ALLEY USA 141 BERND WERKSHAGEN GER 142 BERND GEPPERT GER 143 TIFFANY PIPER NZE 144 MARK SPANGLER USA 145 KENNETH JOHNSON USA 146 DOUG CARDEN USA 147 GARY LEWIS USA 148 TOMOYUKI HASEGAWA JPN 149 JIM STAADER AUS 150 JOHN LINDER USA 151 DOUG ALLEY USA 152 BRIAN BROCKWAY USA 153 CHTISTOPHER YOTZ USA 154 RONALD DEJARNETTE USA 155 CHRIS NUSS USA 156 KELLI SAMPSEL USA 157 MARK ANDREWS USA 158 STEPHEN EMBER USA 159 ZACHARY TEICH USA 160 KELLY GILMORE USA 161 CHIP LOHMAN USA 162 REIN MULDERS NED 163 JEREMY NEWELL USA 164 ANDRE SCHROEDER GER 165 PETER WILLIAMS AUS 166 B.J. NORRIS USA 167 DAVID PERRYMAN USA 168 SHERRY SMITH USA 169 WILLIAM ALEWINE USA 170 KEVIN SANTI USA 171 SHERRIE MEISER USA 172 JERRY MEISER USA 173 MIKE IRVINE USA 174 JOHN SCOUTEN USA 175 JESSIE ABBATE USA 176 BILLY ABBATE USA 177 SHAWN KNIGHT USA 178 MOLLY SMITH USA 179 PHIL STRADER USA 180 DAVE HUFSTEDLER USA 181 ED BOWLING USA 182 LEE ATKINS USA 183 MATTHEW WALSH USMC 184 STEPHEN RYTHER USMC 185 STEVE WEATHERSBY USA 186 JEFFREY RICHARDS USA 187 ANDREW BARKSDALE USA 188 ENOCH SMITH USA Edited May 4, 2010 by NRAActionPistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 How's the division break down looking ? How many first time production shooters? Im pretty excited and Im 20 days away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 How's the division break down looking ? How many first time production shooters? Im pretty excited and Im 20 days away. 106 Open Shooters 28 Metallic Shooters 54 Production Shooters 188 Total Shooters 48 Newcomers 25 1st Time Production Competitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmbeckwith Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 (edited) I usually don't complain, I discuss. But 4 out of 106 open shooters have a chance at the Speed event. That seems a little lopsided to me, compared to the numbers in the other classes. Tom you do a fantastic job!!! But, on this I think some of us long time open shooters have been done an injustice by this new rule. Edited May 5, 2010 by kimmbeckwith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 + a damn sight more than one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 I usually don't complain, I discuss. But 4 out of 106 open shooters have a chance at the Speed event. That seems a little lopsided to me, compared to the numbers in the other classes. Tom you do a fantastic job!!! But, on this I think some of us long time open shooters have been done an injustice by this new rule. All, Sorry, you do not agree with the change to the Speed Event, the bottom line is it has run faster, and it needs to be covered to get our Sponsor some press to justify the sponsorship. Alsom with the TV coverage we hope more people will want to get involved in NRA Action Shooting. As you all know, the Speed Event is one of the 16 approved Events in the NRA Action Pistol Rule Book, and can be run at any Club or Range. With the addition of another Division, we would have added a considerable amount of time to the Event. This year we are also running (2) two Moving Target Events, (Upper & Lower) in an effort to see if we can reduce the Championship Dates by one day in 2011. So we had to either remove something or reduse the amount of competitors that qualify to compete in the Speed Event, it is now as fair & equitable over 3 Divisions and 3 Categories. As you can see below, the majority of the top 3 competitors that finished 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the Speed Event are the top 4 competitors overall from 2006-2009. 2009 Open: 1st Koenig 2nd Overall 2nd Voight 6th Overall 3rd Piatt 1st Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Vasdasz 2nd Overall 3rd Strader 3rd Overall 2008 Open: 1st Koenig 1st Overall 2nd Holmes 14th Overall 3rd Ginger 13th Overall Metallic: 1st Miculek 2nd Overall 2nd Schmidt 3rd Overall 3rd Vasdasz 1st Overall 2007 Open: 1st Koenig 1st Overall 2nd Voight 4th Overall 3rd Holmes 15th Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Strader 2nd Overall 3rd Schimd 3rd Overall 2006 Open: 1st Koenig 2nd Overall 2nd Voight 4th Overall 3rd Piatt 1st Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Strader 3rd Overall 3rd Miculek 4th Overall Hope to see you all in Columbia in a couple of weeks. We leave here on the 17th, and will be in Columbia on the 19th to set up. Travel safely. Tom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafaction Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 19 Seniors 17 Women Internationals 12 AUS, 2 CAN, 8 GER, 2 ITA, 9 NZE, 1 NET, 1 JPN US 1 AK, 2 AZ, 9 CA, 2 CT, 1 FL, 4 GA, 3 IA, 2 IL, 2 IN, 14 KS, 1 KY, 8 LA, 2 MD, 2 MI, 1 MN, 5 MS, 1 MT, 1 NJ, 3 NV, 4 NY, 3 OH, 2 OK, 1 OR, 7 PA, 2 TX, 16 VA, 21 MO, 40 Newcomers 40 Multi-Gun I just saw a post of 180 shooters. With 40 Multi-gun, that's 220 squadded slots. That has got to be at or near capacity, even running two movers. I said the at BC 2010 would be one of the best ever. Now if I can just round up 1/2 dozen more VA shooters, since MO has 21! Go MO, and check out KS w/14. Now we're talking, and lets not overlook AUS w/12, NZE w/9, CA w/9 and LA & GER w/8. Now that's an International Shooting Match. Way to go BC organizers, promoters and competitors, and of course the sponsors and the NRA. Hi, just had a look at the list after getting home from the practice today; I have done a tote from the list above and can see 14 Australians (AUS) listed and #122 Bruce Dickey (from my club & also an Aussie) listed as "USA". He might have dual citizenship that I don't know about, but that would definitely be news to me! So as far as I can see there are actually 15 of us coming from "Down Under"! Woo Hoo! See you all in 18 days! Jimbo Also #132 TONY DRABSCH USA Should be down as an Australian shooter too. See you all soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I usually don't complain, I discuss. But 4 out of 106 open shooters have a chance at the Speed event. That seems a little lopsided to me, compared to the numbers in the other classes. Tom you do a fantastic job!!! But, on this I think some of us long time open shooters have been done an injustice by this new rule. All, Sorry, you do not agree with the change to the Speed Event, the bottom line is it has run faster, and it needs to be covered to get our Sponsor some press to justify the sponsorship. Alsom with the TV coverage we hope more people will want to get involved in NRA Action Shooting. As you all know, the Speed Event is one of the 16 approved Events in the NRA Action Pistol Rule Book, and can be run at any Club or Range. With the addition of another Division, we would have added a considerable amount of time to the Event. This year we are also running (2) two Moving Target Events, (Upper & Lower) in an effort to see if we can reduce the Championship Dates by one day in 2011. So we had to either remove something or reduse the amount of competitors that qualify to compete in the Speed Event, it is now as fair & equitable over 3 Divisions and 3 Categories. As you can see below, the majority of the top 3 competitors that finished 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the Speed Event are the top 4 competitors overall from 2006-2009. 2009 Open: 1st Koenig 2nd Overall 2nd Voight 6th Overall 3rd Piatt 1st Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Vasdasz 2nd Overall 3rd Strader 3rd Overall 2008 Open: 1st Koenig 1st Overall 2nd Holmes 14th Overall 3rd Ginger 13th Overall Metallic: 1st Miculek 2nd Overall 2nd Schmidt 3rd Overall 3rd Vasdasz 1st Overall 2007 Open: 1st Koenig 1st Overall 2nd Voight 4th Overall 3rd Holmes 15th Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Strader 2nd Overall 3rd Schimd 3rd Overall 2006 Open: 1st Koenig 2nd Overall 2nd Voight 4th Overall 3rd Piatt 1st Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Strader 3rd Overall 3rd Miculek 4th Overall Hope to see you all in Columbia in a couple of weeks. We leave here on the 17th, and will be in Columbia on the 19th to set up. Travel safely. Tom... You're comparing different categories. So far as Open is concerned, 1/3 of the top 3 finishers were outside the top 4 in that category. To be equitable, try a percentage from each category. The way it stands now, you have 4% from Open, 14% from Metallic and 7% from Production. Seems to me that you're trying to discourage Open shooters from participating. As it stands now, there will be a grand total of 12 shooters in Metallic & Production (8% & 7% respectively) who will go home with no money, but 86 (81%)in Open out of the money. But I guess that's only fair since the Open shooters spent all that money to get a gun built, they don't need to be rewarded for progressing to Open from the Production and Metallic categories where nearly all of us started out. Most Open shooters have quite a few years (and dollars) invested in this game, and now we're being told it's not worth it to stay in Open. It all goes back to the so-called "level playing field" theory. That was the idea a few years back when we weren't allowed to go prone except at the 50 yd line......."level playing field". That doesn't work! If it did, then why did participation keep dropping when that change was made? Try that with High Power Rifle shooters........tell them that slings, spotting scopes and shooting coats are no longer allowed........that's a "level playing field"! I realize that change is inevitable with anything, but this seems to be headed in the wrong direction, IMHO. Bringing in new blood is great, but when you step on the toes of your base supporters, it's a mistake. Just my $.02 Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I usually don't complain, I discuss. But 4 out of 106 open shooters have a chance at the Speed event. That seems a little lopsided to me, compared to the numbers in the other classes. Tom you do a fantastic job!!! But, on this I think some of us long time open shooters have been done an injustice by this new rule. All, Sorry, you do not agree with the change to the Speed Event, the bottom line is it has run faster, and it needs to be covered to get our Sponsor some press to justify the sponsorship. Alsom with the TV coverage we hope more people will want to get involved in NRA Action Shooting. As you all know, the Speed Event is one of the 16 approved Events in the NRA Action Pistol Rule Book, and can be run at any Club or Range. With the addition of another Division, we would have added a considerable amount of time to the Event. This year we are also running (2) two Moving Target Events, (Upper & Lower) in an effort to see if we can reduce the Championship Dates by one day in 2011. So we had to either remove something or reduse the amount of competitors that qualify to compete in the Speed Event, it is now as fair & equitable over 3 Divisions and 3 Categories. As you can see below, the majority of the top 3 competitors that finished 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the Speed Event are the top 4 competitors overall from 2006-2009. 2009 Open: 1st Koenig 2nd Overall 2nd Voight 6th Overall 3rd Piatt 1st Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Vasdasz 2nd Overall 3rd Strader 3rd Overall 2008 Open: 1st Koenig 1st Overall 2nd Holmes 14th Overall 3rd Ginger 13th Overall Metallic: 1st Miculek 2nd Overall 2nd Schmidt 3rd Overall 3rd Vasdasz 1st Overall 2007 Open: 1st Koenig 1st Overall 2nd Voight 4th Overall 3rd Holmes 15th Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Strader 2nd Overall 3rd Schimd 3rd Overall 2006 Open: 1st Koenig 2nd Overall 2nd Voight 4th Overall 3rd Piatt 1st Overall Metallic: 1st Leatham 1st Overall 2nd Strader 3rd Overall 3rd Miculek 4th Overall Hope to see you all in Columbia in a couple of weeks. We leave here on the 17th, and will be in Columbia on the 19th to set up. Travel safely. Tom... You're comparing different categories. So far as Open is concerned, 1/3 of the top 3 finishers were outside the top 4 in that category. To be equitable, try a percentage from each category. The way it stands now, you have 4% from Open, 14% from Metallic and 7% from Production. Seems to me that you're trying to discourage Open shooters from participating. As it stands now, there will be a grand total of 12 shooters in Metallic & Production (8% & 7% respectively) who will go home with no money, but 86 (81%)in Open out of the money. But I guess that's only fair since the Open shooters spent all that money to get a gun built, they don't need to be rewarded for progressing to Open from the Production and Metallic categories where nearly all of us started out. Most Open shooters have quite a few years (and dollars) invested in this game, and now we're being told it's not worth it to stay in Open. It all goes back to the so-called "level playing field" theory. That was the idea a few years back when we weren't allowed to go prone except at the 50 yd line......."level playing field". That doesn't work! If it did, then why did participation keep dropping when that change was made? Try that with High Power Rifle shooters........tell them that slings, spotting scopes and shooting coats are no longer allowed........that's a "level playing field"! I realize that change is inevitable with anything, but this seems to be headed in the wrong direction, IMHO. Bringing in new blood is great, but when you step on the toes of your base supporters, it's a mistake. Just my $.02 Alan~^~ Alan, Assuming your statistical figures are correct and knowing you they are, I agree with you 99%. The 1% that I don't agree is the fact that if the Cup kept meandering at 140 -150 competitors, then it would cease to exist. My belief is that the recent measures have had an impact on getting more shooters to come "this" year. The question is, will they return "next" year? I would hope so, but I would suggest not. So far Tom as his crew have made some very good decisions. A few that I don't agree with, but that is only me. The results at the end of the day is what is important, unfortunately that day is more than a day long. How long will it take, nobody knows. IMO some of the things being done are not much different then some of the gov't incentives, in that they make a immediate small difference, but not a lasting one. The later is what we need most provided it get beyond the now. See you in a couple weeks, and sorry I will not make it to Bedford on the 8th. MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I don't want to be mean, but as an Area Director once said, "If you don't win a gun then shoot better next time!" I have been to quite a few matches where I took home something made in china and maybe some stuff that wasn't even worth the ammo I shot the event with. If you want privaliges and loot then shoot better next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) I think the problem in this case is it's not a case of shooting better. It's a case of hide in one of the smaller Divisions to get more loot. If you finish #21 in a Divsion with 100 shooters, you're out of luck. If you finish 21 in a division with half that number, you're walking away with cash. Taking it a step farther, the Division with the lowest points will end up with the most stuff. Not exactly a case of shoot better, win more. Now I understand the reasons why Production is being pushed so hard. It's the reason I'm dragging my lazy innaccurate butt to Missouri this year. Figure I should at least be able to pay for ammo even with a likely unimpressive performance. It wouldn't have been worth it for me to build an Open gun and do the same even if they ran the table down to 50th in Open (doubt I would make it to that mark). Wish I could see a solution, but I'm guessing, "just get more prizes" probably isn't all the realistic. My big issue this far is trying to figure out how the "rules" and the referree have decided that aftermarket barrels in Production are cool at the Cup, but I can't shoot one at my club match the week before, or after Bianchi. That one seems a bit off to me. (Of course that said I just shipped my G34 off to SJC for an emergency aftermarket barrel fit) Edited May 7, 2010 by Chuck Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I think the problem in this case is it's not a case of shooting better. It's a case of hide in one of the smaller Divisions to get more loot. If you finish #21 in a Divsion with 100 shooters, you're out of luck. If you finish 21 in a division with half that number, you're walking away with cash. Taking it a step farther, the Division with the lowest points will end up with the most stuff. Not exactly a case of shoot better, win more. Now I understand the reasons why Production is being pushed so hard. It's the reason I'm dragging my lazy innaccurate butt to Missouri this year. Figure I should at least be able to pay for ammo even with a likely unimpressive performance. It wouldn't have been worth it for me to build an Open gun and do the same even if they ran the table down to 50th in Open (doubt I would make it to that mark). Wish I could see a solution, but I'm guessing, "just get more prizes" probably isn't all the realistic. My big issue this far is trying to figure out how the "rules" and the referree have decided that aftermarket barrels in Production are cool at the Cup, but I can't shoot one at my club match the week before, or after Bianchi. That one seems a bit off to me. (Of course that said I just shipped my G34 off to SJC for an emergency aftermarket barrel fit) Yeah, the only rule issue that has cropped up that has really bothered me is the trickling out of the Production rule changes. Not what they are but when they are available. Whether it is a 3 pound trigger or 10 pound trigger. Whether it allows aftermarket barrels or not. Whether it allows replacing fixed sights with adjustables or not. Whether I can use a Bladetech drop offset holster or not. Just tell me and I will work within the rules. But, don't expect me to guess or wait until the last minute to find out. If that is my choice then I won't be there. I have a perfectly good Production gun and rig that I could have used but didn't know until too late to practice with it this year. And after I had already built a Metallic gun. Any and all rules should be set in stone and easy to find at least 6 months in advance. Period. No exceptions. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I think the problem in this case is it's not a case of shooting better. It's a case of hide in one of the smaller Divisions to get more loot. If you finish #21 in a Divsion with 100 shooters, you're out of luck. If you finish 21 in a division with half that number, you're walking away with cash. Taking it a step farther, the Division with the lowest points will end up with the most stuff. Not exactly a case of shoot better, win more. Now I understand the reasons why Production is being pushed so hard. It's the reason I'm dragging my lazy innaccurate butt to Missouri this year. Figure I should at least be able to pay for ammo even with a likely unimpressive performance. It wouldn't have been worth it for me to build an Open gun and do the same even if they ran the table down to 50th in Open (doubt I would make it to that mark). Wish I could see a solution, but I'm guessing, "just get more prizes" probably isn't all the realistic. My big issue this far is trying to figure out how the "rules" and the referree have decided that aftermarket barrels in Production are cool at the Cup, but I can't shoot one at my club match the week before, or after Bianchi. That one seems a bit off to me. (Of course that said I just shipped my G34 off to SJC for an emergency aftermarket barrel fit) Yeah, the only rule issue that has cropped up that has really bothered me is the trickling out of the Production rule changes. Not what they are but when they are available. Whether it is a 3 pound trigger or 10 pound trigger. Whether it allows aftermarket barrels or not. Whether it allows replacing fixed sights with adjustables or not. Whether I can use a Bladetech drop offset holster or not. Just tell me and I will work within the rules. But, don't expect me to guess or wait until the last minute to find out. If that is my choice then I won't be there. I have a perfectly good Production gun and rig that I could have used but didn't know until too late to practice with it this year. And after I had already built a Metallic gun. Any and all rules should be set in stone and easy to find at least 6 months in advance. Period. No exceptions. Chris BINGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I understand now. I miss understood your point. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 I think the problem in this case is it's not a case of shooting better. It's a case of hide in one of the smaller Divisions to get more loot. If you finish #21 in a Divsion with 100 shooters, you're out of luck. If you finish 21 in a division with half that number, you're walking away with cash. Taking it a step farther, the Division with the lowest points will end up with the most stuff. Not exactly a case of shoot better, win more. Now I understand the reasons why Production is being pushed so hard. It's the reason I'm dragging my lazy innaccurate butt to Missouri this year. Figure I should at least be able to pay for ammo even with a likely unimpressive performance. It wouldn't have been worth it for me to build an Open gun and do the same even if they ran the table down to 50th in Open (doubt I would make it to that mark). Wish I could see a solution, but I'm guessing, "just get more prizes" probably isn't all the realistic. My big issue this far is trying to figure out how the "rules" and the referree have decided that aftermarket barrels in Production are cool at the Cup, but I can't shoot one at my club match the week before, or after Bianchi. That one seems a bit off to me. (Of course that said I just shipped my G34 off to SJC for an emergency aftermarket barrel fit) Production is not being pushed, what some people seem to be missing is, NRA Action Pistol is more then just the Bianchi Cup, it was introdused to make it easier for people to start shooting NRA Action Pistol with minimum cost, incentives at the Championship will always be intruduced. This year we have also added a Speed Team Event, which will be a fired by 3 competitors on Sat, 29 May. Now the barrel issue, there has NOT been a rule change, this is one of the bad things about trying to keep the shooters informed. The definition of OEM is An original equipment manufacturer, or OEM, manufactures products or components that are purchased by a company and retailed under that purchasing company's brand name. OEM refers to the company that originally manufactured the product. That doed NOT mean you can replace the barrel with any barrel you wish. Tom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 I think the problem in this case is it's not a case of shooting better. It's a case of hide in one of the smaller Divisions to get more loot. If you finish #21 in a Divsion with 100 shooters, you're out of luck. If you finish 21 in a division with half that number, you're walking away with cash. Taking it a step farther, the Division with the lowest points will end up with the most stuff. Not exactly a case of shoot better, win more. Now I understand the reasons why Production is being pushed so hard. It's the reason I'm dragging my lazy innaccurate butt to Missouri this year. Figure I should at least be able to pay for ammo even with a likely unimpressive performance. It wouldn't have been worth it for me to build an Open gun and do the same even if they ran the table down to 50th in Open (doubt I would make it to that mark). Wish I could see a solution, but I'm guessing, "just get more prizes" probably isn't all the realistic. My big issue this far is trying to figure out how the "rules" and the referree have decided that aftermarket barrels in Production are cool at the Cup, but I can't shoot one at my club match the week before, or after Bianchi. That one seems a bit off to me. (Of course that said I just shipped my G34 off to SJC for an emergency aftermarket barrel fit) Production is not being pushed, what some people seem to be missing is, NRA Action Pistol is more then just the Bianchi Cup, it was introdused to make it easier for people to start shooting NRA Action Pistol with minimum cost, incentives at the Championship will always be intruduced. This year we have also added a Speed Team Event, which will be a fired by 3 competitors on Sat, 29 May. Now the barrel issue, there has NOT been a rule change, this is one of the bad things about trying to keep the shooters informed. The definition of OEM is An original equipment manufacturer, or OEM, manufactures products or components that are purchased by a company and retailed under that purchasing company's brand name. OEM refers to the company that originally manufactured the product. That doed NOT mean you can replace the barrel with any barrel you wish. Tom... Sorry the quote from you that I read said that barrels could be replaced wtih aftermarket barrels. I thought that was pretty clear. If you are now saying that they can't be replaced with aftermarket barrels PLEASE clarify this since I just sent mine off to get fitted with a KKM barrel and I'm going to be seriously upset if NRA is flip flopping on this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 Sorry the quote from you that I read said that barrels could be replaced wtih aftermarket barrels. I thought that was pretty clear. If you are now saying that they can't be replaced with aftermarket barrels PLEASE clarify this since I just sent mine off to get fitted with a KKM barrel and I'm going to be seriously upset if NRA is flip flopping on this again. Chuck< I don't Flip Flop...but I do admit my mistakes, I confused another decision made by the Chief Referee on OEM equipment...your barrel add is good to go! If was up to me I would not allow any changes this close, but the majority thinks some things need to be addressed. But you and everyone else reading this need to know this is NOT a Rule Change, it's a clarification made by the Chief Referee at the 2010 Bianchi Cup. See ya in a few weeks. Tom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 Since we are talking about rules here, I have a request for AFTER the Cup. Let's make all the single action triggers 2 pounds across the board as they are for Open class and the DA triggers over 3.5. That way it will save a lot of people in Production from having to take their Production gun to a gunsmith to try to get the SA raised up to 3.5 pounds. If you HAVE to have smithing done to meet the rules, it's not really production anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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