Range Report - Need Feedback - G34, Solo 1000

[gunzoo]

I jut got back from the range and am a little concerned. I loaded up a few diff length loads,packed up the chrony, and hit the range. I'm trying to build up a load that will hover just above the IDPA Power Factor.

(Power Factor = Bullet Velocity in feet per second multiplied by Bullet Weight in grains.)

I'm running a 147gr bullet so I need at least 851 fps. As you can see from my number below, I'm way off. The rounds in the 1.14" length had the highest fps but still way off. The rounds in the 1.13" and 1.15" range sucked and had major cycling problems in my gun, and they also were super slow. Let me know where you think I should go from here. Your feedback is, as always, greatly appreciated.

PARTICULARS:

-------------

Gun: Glock 34

Barrel: Storm Lake

Recoil Spring: ISMI 13 pound

Striker Spring: Wolf 4 pound

Powder: Solo-1000

Powder Charge 3.4gr

Bullet Used: Montana Gold

Bullet Weight: 147gr

Brass Used: Various once-fired cases

LOAD RESULTS

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1.14" avg = 784fps

OAL ---fps

---------------

1.144 ---775

1.147 ---786

1.146 ---782

1.144 ---793

1.145 ---784

1.145 ---786

1.144 ---777

1.145 ---770

1.142 ---797

1.146 ---794

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1.13" avg = 747fps

OAL ---fps

---------------

1.136 ---737

1.136 ---733

1.136 ---759

1.131 ---756

1.137 ---742

1.135 ---753

1.132 ---748

1.133 ---749

1.138 ---737

1.139 ---756

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1.15" avg = 755fps

OAL ---fps

---------------

1.159 ---730

1.158 ---779

1.155 ---777

1.155 ---754

1.153 ---754

1.159 ---757

1.151 ---774

1.158 ---741

1.156 ---762

1.158 ---730

[Cy Soto]

I never knew that a variation of +/- one centesimal could affect the FPS so significantly.

I too would like to read what the experts have to say about this. :Tagged:

[G-ManBart]

Why are you varying the OAL? Trying to change the velocity by changing OAL is the wrong way to go about things. Pick a length the gun likes and fits in the magazine....then stick with it. Vary the powder charge to get the velocity you want.

Your results are within what most folks would consider normal variation considering that you're using mixed brass. In other words, you don't really have a whole lot of solid data when you introduce the variable of both different OALs and different headstamp brass.

Trying to run a G34 at 125PF is likely going to give you reliability problems regardless of OAL. AA&A loads the Team Glock ammo with 147gr JHPs at 1.10" and they average about 920-930FPS or so (135PF give or take) in most G34s (according to the folks I spoke with there). It's more than soft enough and works in most guns. Trying to just squeak by the PF limit doesn't really help you...there's enough variation between rounds that you're not going to be able to feel the difference between a 125PF load an one that's 130PF or higher.

You're going to have to go up several tenths in charge weight and picking just one headstamp will help you figure out exactly where the charge needs to be. Once you've got that set you can use mixed brass without much trouble, but I wouldn't do that if you were planning on a big match where they chono unless your baseline PF is really 135 or so. R,

[rupie]

Why are you varying the OAL? Trying to change the velocity by changing OAL is the wrong way to go about things. Pick a length the gun likes and fits in the magazine....then stick with it. Vary the powder charge to get the velocity you want.

Your results are within what most folks would consider normal variation considering that you're using mixed brass. In other words, you don't really have a whole lot of solid data when you introduce the variable of both different OALs and different headstamp brass.

Trying to run a G34 at 125PF is likely going to give you reliability problems regardless of OAL. AA&A loads the Team Glock ammo with 147gr JHPs at 1.10" and they average about 920-930FPS or so (135PF give or take) in most G34s (according to the folks I spoke with there). It's more than soft enough and works in most guns. Trying to just squeak by the PF limit doesn't really help you...there's enough variation between rounds that you're not going to be able to feel the difference between a 125PF load an one that's 130PF or higher.

You're going to have to go up several tenths in charge weight and picking just one headstamp will help you figure out exactly where the charge needs to be. Once you've got that set you can use mixed brass without much trouble, but I wouldn't do that if you were planning on a big match where they chono unless your baseline PF is really 135 or so. R,

+1 your not gaining anything in my opinion from trying to hit the floor on PF, I used to shoot solo 1000 in a g-17 but now I shoot it in a g35 with 185 grain Molly's with a PF of 140. My opinion is make the gun run (higher Pf) and this will not effect your recoil control, and it will still shoot soft.

[gunzoo]

The reason i'm varying lengths is I'm scared to increase the charge as I've heard 3.0 gr is the max for Solo-1000.

[Sarge]

The reason i'm varying lengths is I'm scared to increase the charge as I've heard 3.0 gr is the max for Solo-1000.

It's admirable to be scared to a degree when first starting to work up a load. 3.4 just plain is not enough. Set your oal at 1.14 and up the charge to 3.6. Load about 50 or so and go chrono them in groups of 10 and see what your avg comes out to. I am sure you won't find any pressure signs but you can look at the primers and see if they are flattened much.

MG bullets are a little harder to get up to speed(literally)than other bullet brands so it takes a little more charge weight. Be prepared to move to 3.7 if everything looks ok pressure wise. I was running 3.8 out of an M&P PRO with MG 147's to make PF at one time.

I currently run 124 MG's with 4.1 solo1000 @1.14 out of a G34. I got 130 pf out of it this past weekend. I might up it .1 just for added insurance. I am sure that might be over listed charge but then again those MG's are slow.

As the others have said don't induce your own fluctuations because there will be enough already. Reloading to pf is a game of averages at best. Think about it, bullet weight varies, oal varies, charge weight varies, gun barrels vary, chrono's vary, bullets by manufacture vary, etc.... You have to shoot quite a few strings to start to see common numbers emerge.

One way to tell how confusing you made it for yourself is that your velocities went down when you shortened to 1.13. That should not have been the case if you would have shot more and averaged everything. Some could be lower due to the variations I mentioned but shooting many more would have yielded different results.

Good luck and stay safe!

[DWFAN]

Just a heads up, I think the recent Solo 1K output could be slow. I just confirmed tonight what others have said. My prior can of Solo 1K makes 950ish FPS at 3.4gr with 147gr lead flat point. The new 8lb jug I got only makes ~870 FPS in the same load. Thats a big difference from lot to lot.

Your loads may take a good amount more of solo to make PF. Sarge's load that makes ~130pf makes less than 120 PF in my M&P Pro. I ran it up to 4.4 gr with NO pressure signs at all yet, still only made 122pf with the 4.4 gr.

[G-ManBart]

The reason i'm varying lengths is I'm scared to increase the charge as I've heard 3.0 gr is the max for Solo-1000.

Pressure is pressure. With some very unusual exceptions, it takes X amount of pressure to get Y amount of velocity in any given cartridge with a particular bullet. Increasing the OAL is going to lower the pressure, so you'll get lower velocity. Decrease the OAL and you get higher pressure and higher velocity. You can't increase the OAL and get the same velocity with lower pressure...doesn't work that way.

Unfortunately, Solo 1000 data is pretty old and many of us seem to doubt the little bit we've seen published. Someone went so far as to call Hodgdon to talk to one of their engineers and it doesn't sound like they've done much work with the powder since they bought Royal Scot.

Out of my M&P Pro (which tends to run maybe 20-25fps slower than a typical G34, I've chrono'd 3.85gr of Solo 1000 with a Montana Gold 147CMJ at 1.125" with a Win SP on two different days. The first day was 18*F and I got an average of 909FPS. The second day was 35*F and I got an average of 877FPS. I lost the light and only got a handful or rounds off the second day, so it may not be the best true average (I normally use 20 round strings). Still, Solo 1000 is reverse temperature sensitive, so it should have been a bit slower at the higher temp, but maybe not quite 32FPS.

Either way, you're going to have to bump up a couple of tenths to get to something like a nice 135PF load. I saw zero pressure signs at 3.85gr, with the slightly shorter OAL so I think you've got some room to go up without problems...and others have documented loads more in the 3.6gr range from what I recall reading here. R,

Edited March 28, 2010 by G-ManBart

[dsmw5142]

I run 3.5gr of Solo 1000 with 147gr Black Bullets International at 1.130-1.135, mixed brass and wolf spp for a power factor of about 134. I use an ISMI 13lb. spring and factory barrel in my G34 with no cycling problems. 1.140 is about the max I care to hit. Much more and I start to have feed problems with a Glock mag.

For a jacketed bullet, particularly Montana Gold, you probably need 3.6 to 3.8 to stabilize the bullet. I run 3.7 with 130gr BBI for about 129pf.

[SA Friday]

Try 3.6 to 3.9 gr with the 147gr MG bullet for the right pf zone. If it bothers you to go over the charts (which are by most's testing to be inaccurate), just use Titegroup. With a FMJ, you really can't go wrong with TG.

I load around the 3.9gr of Solo 1000 with a MG 147gr CMJ at 1.125-1.13 OAL. I have found no advantage of loadling longer with a Glock 9mm, and some bullets will pinch in the mag if loaded longer.

Shoot 135 pf. There is no advantage to shooting any less, but there are a lot of disadvantages; the gun doesn't run as reliable, the steel doesn't fall as well, and I've found non-adjustable aftermarket sights are not made for a POI with a lower pf.

[gunzoo]

It appears Solo-1000 is indeed slow. I ran up to 3.7 grains today (1.12") used the same head-stamp (Winchester) and had the following:

AVG 804fps

SD: 12.4fps

LOW: 742fps

HIGH: 828fps (HUGE difference between the high and low)

I'm gonna load some 3.9's and some 4.1's. I'll probably load a few 4.3's (dangerous? Who knows with this load!!!) as well because I don't think I can tolerate another day driving 50-miles round-trip to the range and have loads that wouldn't even penetrate wet paper (exaggeration I know, but the frustration has set in).

I'll update everyone Tuesday. Hopefully I'll report I'm at 130pf. Otherwise I'm gonna flush all 8 pounds of this crap/gunpowder. I really wanted Tite Group but I could not find it anywhere and this tied with WIN 231 as I'm gonna shoot lead as well.

[Cy Soto]

Otherwise I'm gonna flush all 8 pounds of this crap/gunpowder. I really wanted Tite Group but I could not find it anywhere and this tied with WIN 231 as I'm gonna shoot lead as well.

I have tried both Solo 1000 and Titegroup and IMO Solo is a much cleaner and softer-shooting powder. I will echo what other have said before me when I tell you that Accurate's published load data is extremely conservative but, once you have found the data needed to make your desired PF, you'll never look back.

[G-ManBart]

It appears Solo-1000 is indeed slow. I ran up to 3.7 grains today (1.12") used the same head-stamp (Winchester) and had the following:

AVG 804fps

You went from 3.4gr at 1.14 OAL and had an average of 784fps to 3.7gr at 1.12" and only went up to 804fps? Something else is very wrong there. Shorter OAL, and three tenths more powder should have bumped you way more than 20fps.

[DWFAN]

Whats your LOT # on your jug of powder?

[SA Friday]

It appears Solo-1000 is indeed slow. I ran up to 3.7 grains today (1.12") used the same head-stamp (Winchester) and had the following:

AVG 804fps

SD: 12.4fps

LOW: 742fps

HIGH: 828fps (HUGE difference between the high and low)

I'm gonna load some 3.9's and some 4.1's. I'll probably load a few 4.3's (dangerous? Who knows with this load!!!) as well because I don't think I can tolerate another day driving 50-miles round-trip to the range and have loads that wouldn't even penetrate wet paper (exaggeration I know, but the frustration has set in).

I'll update everyone Tuesday. Hopefully I'll report I'm at 130pf. Otherwise I'm gonna flush all 8 pounds of this crap/gunpowder. I really wanted Tite Group but I could not find it anywhere and this tied with WIN 231 as I'm gonna shoot lead as well.

Are you weighing every powder charge for every round of your test ammo?

[gunzoo]

Your loads may take a good amount more of solo to make PF. Sarge's load that makes ~130pf makes less than 120 PF in my M&P Pro. I ran it up to 4.4 gr with NO pressure signs at all yet, still only made 122pf with the 4.4 gr.

I have some 4.0gr and 4.3gr loads ready to test. We shall see where I stand on Tuesday. I'm starting to think 124gr with Unique powder ain't sounding so bad right now!

You went from 3.4gr at 1.14 OAL and had an average of 784fps to 3.7gr at 1.12" and only went up to 804fps? Something else is very wrong there.

Trust me, I know. I have some Unique laying around (used it on 124gr's I was shooting) and may try it to see whats going on.

Whats your LOT # on your jug of powder?

No lot number on the jug, just a bar code.

Are you weighing every powder charge for every round of your test ammo?

I am weighing every 5th round and loading about 50 rounds for each increment in powder.

[MemphisMechanic]

Weird.

3.55-3.60gr was all I needed to hit 130PF with a Glock34 and a Precision Delta 147 FMJ. The MG is a slower bullet than a P.D., but I'd expect 3.70ish to make PF.

I've seen people post with some very different results from my own before. Solo appears to widely vary in burn rate from one lot to another.

My current M&P 5" load is a 130gr BlackBullet over 3.7gr at 1.120"... It's 129.5pf right now, and I'll probably go to 3.8 in the future for some cushion on really hot days at major matches.

[blind bat]

With a stock barrel in my G34, 3.8gr @ 1.45" OAL makes 128-130pf w/ 147gr MGs and mixed brass. None of the primers show a hint of pressure. Look at your primers if they still have a rounded edge and no "cratering" around the firing pin it's generally safe to increase your powder charge.

My S1000 came out of an 'Accurate' jug but it was covered in a thick layer of dust. I went back to pick up a new jug and found plenty left on the shelf with the same lot number and even more dust. From what I've read single base powders age more quickly than double base nitroglycerin powders. I know people have said S1000 has come in from differing manufacturers over the years but I wonder if the shelf life might also have something to do with the varying potency and charge rate.

[gunzoo]

So I just got home from the range and shot a few rounds through the chrony. I ran with 4.3gr's at a length of 1.135". The top of the primer looked somewhat flat but the sides were rounded. I'm no "high-pressure sign expert" but with the numbers below, I don't think the pressure was too high on these. Results from 4, 10-shot, groups below. I'm cutting it close with these numbers. Should I add another 0.01gr or decrease the OAL to 1.125"? Thoughts?

Gun: Glock 34

Barrel: Glock Factory

Recoil Spring: ISMI 13 pound

Striker Spring: Wolf 4 pound

Powder: Solo-1000

Powder Charge 4.3gr

OAL: 1.135"

Bullet Used: Montana Gold

Bullet Weight: 147gr

Brass Used: Blazer

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1st string of 10-shots

LOW: 861

HIGH: 889

AVG: 874

ES: 27.1

SD: 10.13

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

2nd string of 10-shots

LOW: 855

HIGH: 909

AVG: 875

ES: 54.08

SD: 16.37

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

3rd string of 10-shots

LOW: 870

HIGH: 915

AVG: 895

ES: 45.26

SD: 14.56

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

4th string of 10-shots

LOW: 856

HIGH: 910

AVG: 876.5

ES: 53.35

SD: 16.03

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Sarge]

4.3 and thats all your gettin'? That powder is bad, or your chrono is bad. I can see some powder fluctuation but thats too drastic. I would get ahold of them and give them your results. There is no way to come up with a load. Try another chrono or buy a small bottle of solo1000 and see if it is different.

I wish you luck but 4.3 with a 147 is nuts!

[SA Friday]

4.3 and thats all your gettin'? That powder is bad, or your chrono is bad. I can see some powder fluctuation but thats too drastic. I would get ahold of them and give them your results. There is no way to come up with a load. Try another chrono or buy a small bottle of solo1000 and see if it is different.

I wish you luck but 4.3 with a 147 is nuts!

Agreed. Something is not right. I would also check your scale for accuracy.

[DWFAN]

I agree your results are possible. My current bottle (8lbs) of Solo 1000 is slow also. I used to run 3.4gr under a 147gr lead. It makes about 870 now, where the last bottle I had made 950fps(which I posted above).

See the below numbers for many bullets chrono'd saturday on a Pro-chrono digital with indoor light set up through a M&P Pro.

3.7gr Solo

130gr BBI

Avg - 967

3.5gr Solo

147BBI

Avg 875

3.4gr solo

147 SNS Casting lead

Avg - 889

4.4 Solo

124gr MG JHP

avg 994

4.2 Solo

124gr MG JHP

Avg 983

These numbers are VERY low compared to previous results posted on this forum. Another guy I shoot with has had the same results and even called Accurate. They didnt seem interested in helping or even looking into the issue.

Ive got no pressure signs, so Im going to work up some more and see where it leads. I'd like to be able to use this 8lbs of powder.

[Bongo Boy]

This is what your initial data looks like:

I think this supports the notion of eliminating OAL as a user-induced variable for now, since it has not apparent correlation to anything. But I think you're past that already--I wanted to see it in handy picture form, and thought it might be interesting.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Bongo Boy

[gunzoo]

I forgot to add that I checked my weight on both my RCBS Digital Scale AND my Lee beam scale. Also, I chorny'd my loads on my Shooting Chrony Alpha Master Chronograph and my friends CED Millennium 2 chrony. Both scales show the loads to be within 0.10 of a grain and both chronographs were within 25fps of one another. I'm telling ya, this jug shoots slow! It is in an Accurate branded jug and I bought it from Powder Valley.

Besides the velocity being poor it does shoot cleaner than any powder I've ever seen. The brass that is ejected almost looks new. Too bad I don't care about clean as much as making a decent power factor without blowing up my gun or myself. My final judgment is this: The powder burns slow and at these slow rates of speed the pressure cannot be too high as to cause damage (hopefully).

I'm shooting in the SC State IDPA Championship at the end of April and dont have time to work up another powder as I need to spend every free second shooting/training. I'll run with this then hope that some Titegroup becomes available and I'll make the switch. I just don't feel good about this powder long-term. Like I said, clean burning is good but I can clean my gun and tumble my brass, I need safe and mildly fast powder.

Edited March 31, 2010 by gunzoo

[Shooter32]

I agree with the results you are getting , i am trying to make power factor with solo100 and a Zero 124 and i started with 4.2grs and the avg was 880fps for 10 rounds so the new lots of solo100 must be slow . I am going to bump up to 4.4 or maybe even 4.5grs to see if i can make it before i go to another powder . I dont want to give up on it as i have a brand new 8lb jug !! By the way i am shooting a G34 also .

Edited April 4, 2010 by Shooter32