Dry Fire Split Speed

[Shibby]

One thing I've always wondered about is split speed as it relates to dry firing. For example, when I do 6 reload 6 from Steve Anderson's book I find that I'm reducing my time by simply pulling the trigger faster, not from having faster transitions, reload, or draw. I know that in live fire there is no way I can reproduce the splits I get in dry fire. To me the lack of recoil lets me achieve faster splits than I would in live fire. But in dry fire as I'm pressing the trigger the sights are aligned and I'm seeing what I need to produce good hits. But the point of the drill seems to be to increase your transition speed not reduce your splits.

The question is do you slow down your splits to a more realistic level when dry firing? Or is the fact the trigger finger is moving fast a good exercise as long as you see what you need to see with the sights?

The thought I'm having now is that I'm training my brain to recognize a good sight picture on a target and the response to that sight picture is to press the trigger. Since the gun doesn't lift in recoil I'm able to immediately start pressing the trigger again (assuming the sights are still aligned).

What say you??

[ecolon]

I don't slow down. I think that one of the huge benefits, specially from that drill, is that your trigger control increases. I totally agree with your last sentence. Recognizing the sight picture before pulling the trigger is important, but I think that the drill shines because it lets you run a whole series of skills in one drill. I guess you might not gain the exact amount of speed as you do while dry firing but you get fluidity.

The question is do you slow down your splits to a more realistic level when dry firing?

No, I go as fast as I can.

Or is the fact the trigger finger is moving fast a good exercise as long as you see what you need to see with the sights?

I think you get the benefit of learning to shoot unconsciously from that drill.

[Corey]

I try to pull the trigger at a normal speed to not move the sights off the A-zones. ive also started using Steve's book and drills with my arisoft gun. while the recoil impulse isnt there, there is still the action of the slide, sights lifting slightly and the trigger reset which is more realistic than just pulling an empty trigger.

[jkrispies]

The thought I'm having now is that I'm training my brain to recognize a good sight picture on a target and the response to that sight picture is to press the trigger.

I've been forced to take an extended "break" from competition and shooting--almost zero range time in a good six months--but I'm now working to get back in the game. During the down time I've given thought to how I used to train, what worked, and what didn't. I'm looking at my return to training as a fresh start. With regards to dryfire, I don't think I helped myself when I went as fast as I could, and I won't be doing that anymore. In fact, I know that I built bad habits because the speed focus pulled my attention way from much more important matters. I won't be timing myself at all during dryfire.

With dryfire, I now go at maybe 50% speed, concentrating solely on maintaining a perfect form: correct hand placement, sight picture, sight focus, etc. Because there is no recoil impulse, noise, and so forth, I won't be doing multiple shots on a single target in dryfire, but primarily one "shot" then shifting my eyes to the next target, turning my body properly, bringing the sights in line with my vision, shifting my focus, "fire," shifting my eyes to the next target, etc. I'm also going to concentrate on doing 50% speed entering and exiting of shooting boxes as well as shooting on the move. Dryfire will be solely about instilling perfect form into my muscle memory so that when I'm doing it full speed in live fire I can concentrate on... well, hopefully nothing.

As far as practicing multiple shots on target (ie, a Bill drill), I'll do that at the range on a shot timer where I can focus on accuracy while negotiating with the real dynamics of a gun going bang in my hands.

I own Steve Anderson's dryfire book and have learned a good deal from it. I know that it's a superb training tool for many, and I have and will continue to recommend it to others. In retrospect, I'm just not sure that it's worked as well for me given my own learning curve.

Edited February 17, 2010 by jkrispies

[Duane Thomas]

I know that in live fire there is no way I can reproduce the splits I get in dry fire.

Why not? With decent technique the gun is going to be down out of recoil before you could possibly pull the trigger again anyway.

[Flyin40]

One thing I've always wondered about is split speed as it relates to dry firing. For example, when I do 6 reload 6 from Steve Anderson's book I find that I'm reducing my time by simply pulling the trigger faster, not from having faster transitions, reload, or draw. I know that in live fire there is no way I can reproduce the splits I get in dry fire. To me the lack of recoil lets me achieve faster splits than I would in live fire. But in dry fire as I'm pressing the trigger the sights are aligned and I'm seeing what I need to produce good hits. But the point of the drill seems to be to increase your transition speed not reduce your splits.

The question is do you slow down your splits to a more realistic level when dry firing? Or is the fact the trigger finger is moving fast a good exercise as long as you see what you need to see with the sights?

The thought I'm having now is that I'm training my brain to recognize a good sight picture on a target and the response to that sight picture is to press the trigger. Since the gun doesn't lift in recoil I'm able to immediately start pressing the trigger again (assuming the sights are still aligned).

What say you??

Flex has posted a great way to deal with this. One of the problems with dryfire is rushing through the drills and not having a good sight picture. You end up trying to push it but while pushing it you sacrifice technique for speed. This is one of the major things you must be aware of when dryfiring. One way to deal with this is taking a 3rd sight picture before transitioning to the next target. All that you do after pulling the trigger for the 2nd shot you just literally take another sight picture. You don't pull the trigger but just see the sights or dot on the target spot/A zone. This helps keeps you honest about your dryfire speed. It feels weird at first but it helps.

Flyin

[sfpmb]

The question is do you slow down your splits to a more realistic level when dry firing? Or is the fact the trigger finger is moving fast a good exercise as long as you see what you need to see with the sights?

For dry fire, yes, I do slow down. Usually, I try to get to the point at which I start blurring where the sight was before I pulled it toward the other target. I do burn it up and lose the vision but that is to get me out of the box. I am dry firing for tecnique, timing of splits really happens for me when I am shooting the different loads of my pistols. That is the same reason I don't focus second shot stuff with airsoft, no recoil, no timing training.

I also do fast trigger pulls on targets because I think it has helped me just be able to pull the trigger faster (think multiple close range targets you hose as fast as possible).

[Shibby]

I know that in live fire there is no way I can reproduce the splits I get in dry fire.

Why not? With decent technique the gun is going to be down out of recoil before you could possibly pull the trigger again anyway.

Your right I've never realistically tried to go as fast as I physically can, calling my shots along the way. I've pulled the trigger as fast as I can pull it, but put no effort into calling both shots (just wanted to see my fastest split). I've always valued accuracy more than speed in practice. Once I start getting bad hits I start slowing down. But I understand in practice you need to push it or you'll never get faster.

It's kind of like when someones says "You don't know what you don't know". If you never get up to that speed, you won't know what you need to work on to shoot that fast accurately. Am I making any sense??

Flex has posted a great way to deal with this. One of the problems with dryfire is rushing through the drills and not having a good sight picture. You end up trying to push it but while pushing it you sacrifice technique for speed. This is one of the major things you must be aware of when dryfiring. One way to deal with this is taking a 3rd sight picture before transitioning to the next target. All that you do after pulling the trigger for the 2nd shot you just literally take another sight picture. You don't pull the trigger but just see the sights or dot on the target spot/A zone. This helps keeps you honest about your dryfire speed. It feels weird at first but it helps.

Flyin

I like this idea and I'm going to try it, but does it affect your live fire? Do you ever notice inadvertently getting a third sight picture in live fire?

Dry fire to me feels risky at times. I'm a firm believer in "Perfect practices makes perfect", since there are no holes in the target afterwards, it can be hard to validate your performance. I usually try to balance my dry fire with live fire, to validate my dry fire practice. But during these short winter days its been hard to get to the range and practice. So I've done a lot more dry fire than live fire lately. As I'm sure everyone has.

Any more tricks, besides the third sight picture, to keep yourself honest in dry fire practice?

[Dan Hefta]

I just made M class on my dryfire El Prez, all A's and blazing fast speed. It was amazing

[Duane Thomas]

It's kind of like when someones says "You don't know what you don't know". If you never get up to that speed, you won't know what you need to work on to shoot that fast accurately. Am I making any sense??

Absolutely. When we first push ourselves beyond the speed at which we're used to operating, and at which we're used to seeing, things fall apart. We miss, we don't see a thing. The temptation at that point is to "slow down and get the hits". God, how I hate that phrase. Because it builds an either/or attitude toward speed and accuracy. DON'T "slow down and get the hits." Keep shooting at that speed, open up your visual inputs, and in short order your eye speed comes up to the level of your shooting, you begin seeing thing you never did before, and you begin to realize things like, yes, as a matter of fact, the gun IS down out of recoil and aimed-in again before you could ever possibly pull the trigger again anyway.

[Flexmoney]

I like this idea and I'm going to try it, but does it affect your live fire?

Yeah. You will shoot better.

What you are doing with the 3rd sight picture in df is extending your follow through. It won't be an issue in live fire, because the gun will be moving. (Though, a 3rd sight picture in live fire can also be helpful at times.)

If you aren't working your visual patience and your follow through in df, then you are cheating yourself. I believe Steve covers that in the book?

[Ron Ankeny]

...the gun IS down out of recoil and aimed-in again before you could ever possibly pull the trigger again anyway.

Of course that depends on the difficulty level of the shot and the speed of the trigger finger.

[Flexmoney]

And, what you are doing isn't about holes in the target. That sounds ironic, right?

It is about the underlying techniques...and the fundamentals they grow out of...that lead to holes in the target.

Understand THE fundamentals*. Then, understand how techniques support those fundamentals. The holes will they take care of themselves.

* You know what THE fundamentals are, right? If not, search for that knowledge. It is vital.