kdj Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I'm new to these forums and I'm really impressed with the quality of the conversation here, so I thought I'd ask for advice on my current issue: I'm getting back into IPSC after about 10 years out of the game. Being a confirmed gadget freak, I'm only really interested in shooting a full blown tricked out Race Gun (my last gun was a compensated 38 Super back in the dark ages and some of the new hi-tech guns just look really interesting!). I'm having a problem in that I'd like to buy something as far up the food chain as possible *NOW* so I can be burning ammo and getting the rust off while I find someone to build me the perfect gun , since I understand that in the current world that's going to take months at best. In most places, it seems one could buy a "custom" piece from S*I and get up and running quickly. Living in CA, it seems I don't have that option! How does someone in CA lay hands on a decent Open 38 Super now? Any suggestions welcome ... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 There are a few for sale on the USPSA Classifieds. You have to be a member to access the ads. I know both of the guys selling 'em (one's in SoCal, the other is in the Fresno area). Also check with JoJo Vidanes at www.jvdynamics.com... he can get you set up with a custom-built blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 I'll take a look at both possibilities. Anything necessary for instant gratification! I want all the frustration to come from not shooting the way I want to, not from waiting to be able to shoot. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Somebody correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe that Hi-cap mags can not be sold new in, brought into, or transferred from party to party within California, and that unless you already have them from before the ban that you are SOL here. Can anyone say Open 10 Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Somebody correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe that Hi-cap mags can not be sold new in, brought into, or transferred from party to party within California, and that unless you already have them from before the ban that you are SOL here. I think you are correct. Even buying an existing open gun, it would be illegal to transfer any mags with a capacity greater than 10. Still more fun to shoot a gadget gun though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 George, I'm sure that kdj kept his high-cap mags from way back when, didn't ya kdj? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 George,I'm sure that kdj kept his high-cap mags from way back when, didn't ya kdj? Yup and if those old mags are broken he could buy replacemnet parts to repair them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 The main thing is to carry photocopies of the receipts for the original purchase of your "Grand Fathered In" hi-caps. If you ever have to argue it, you will then get to keep them. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 To this day I have yet to hear of anyone being questioned about thier mags. So what if I dont have a reciept for my mag. Mag tubes don't have a manufactured date. There is no way to prove or disprove when a person bought them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Mag tubes don't have a manufactured date. There is no way to prove or disprove when a person bought them Exactly. No way to tell anything about the mags someone is using compared to the receipt. But, if it ever becomes an issue, paper documents always help a lot. Local municipalities have variable attitudes and ordinances. Be wary in Berserkely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 KDJ, You have a couple of options. 1 - Buy a used open gun that's within the state of California and you can do a private party transfer. If it hasn't been done already, you will want to have a gunsmith weld/solder (spelling) the comp to the barrel. Without it, you are technically in violation of SB23 and are in posession of a non-registered assault weapon. Red Loc-Tite doesn't count. 2 - Buy an approved firearm from the "list" and then have it later customized by the gunsmith of choice. An idea would be to buy SVI's approved hi-cap .45 that's on the list and have the factory build you and alternate upper. 3 - Purchase a frame via private party transfer (which are still available but at a premium) and then have your gunsmith build it up. In all cases magazines are going to be an issue. However you resolve that is on you. As for receipts/paper trail on magazines. Magazines aren't registered and last time I checked, you were innocent until proven guilty. Do not worry about maintaining a paper trail on un-registerable items. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Somebody correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe that Hi-cap mags can not be sold new in, brought into, or transferred from party to party within California, and that unless you already have them from before the ban that you are SOL here. Can anyone say Open 10Regards, You are correct sir. You can legally buy an open gun from person within Kali (even if the gun is not on the approved list), assuming that person legally owned the gun prior to the new laws being enacted. This is done on a private party transfer, face to face at an FFL. HOWEVER: ANY HI-CAP MAGS MUST REMAIN WITH THE ORIGINAL OWNER. He can not give, sell, lend, teleport, or otherwise cause them to change posession. You also can NOT buy any pre-ban hi-caps or bring any into the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 In all cases magazines are going to be an issue. However you resolve that is on you. As for receipts/paper trail on magazines. Magazines aren't registered and last time I checked, you were innocent until proven guilty. Do not worry about maintaining a paper trail on un-registerable items. Rich It's true the mags are not registered, so technically it's hard tp prove when you bought them. But if the gun was acquired by PPT after the ban (and that IS registered) and the high caps were for that gun, you'll have a hard time selling the idea that your crystal ball told you to buy hi-caps years before you ever saw the gun so you would have them legally. They will get confiscated if the poop ever hit the fan, and you could get busted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 bountyhunter, I understand the concerns and the logic. However, since any gun now was made after 1994, by your logic, any mag for an STI/SV/McCormick Gun Racer frame will tag the owner guilty. Due to financial reasons, I've had to sell some frames via PPT here in California. I remind all the buyers (who thankfully are friends) that assembly of new magazines is a no-no. Too that importation, purchase, sale, transfer, teleport (dude that was funny ) of magazines is a definite no-no. I've had a couple of conversations here with DOJ on specifically magazines. They acknowledge many things on what they know has been going on for years in USPSA and we have a clear understanding. Like I said earlier, "However you resolve that is on you". Rich P.S. "You also can NOT buy any pre-ban hi-caps...". Post ban hi-caps are LEO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 bountyhunter,I understand the concerns and the logic. However, since any gun now was made after 1994, by your logic, any mag for an STI/SV/McCormick Gun Racer frame will tag the owner guilty. No, I never said that. If you owned a gun prior to 1999 and have a bagfull of high caps for it, no LEO in Kali would even look at you and you would never have a problem. What I was saying is that if you acquire a gun now and somehow end up with a bagful of high caps for it, everybody is going to KNOW you acquired the magazines illegally because they know when you acquired the gun. The AWB of 1994 is not the issue: there are tons of preban mags out there with no serial numbers or "LEO only" tags on them. My point was that it's the 1999 Kali law that's the problem. After that date, no high caps could be obtained in any way by Kali residents, whether they are legal pre-bans or not. And if the cops check the registration on a gun you own and find out it's after the kali law took effect, then they know you obtained the mags illegally. Whether you'd be charged or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Due to financial reasons, I've had to sell some frames via PPT here in California. I remind all the buyers (who thankfully are friends) that assembly of new magazines is a no-no. Too that importation, purchase, sale, transfer, teleport (dude that was funny ) of magazines is a definite no-no. I've had a couple of conversations here with DOJ on specifically magazines. They acknowledge many things on what they know has been going on for years in USPSA and we have a clear understanding. Like I said earlier, "However you resolve that is on you". Rich OK. My point is that it's never smart to do something that automatically proves you broke the law (like getting high-cap magazines for a gun that you bought after the ban) because it's a no brainer that you would be dead in court. I have also spoken at length with the DOJ folks in sacramento, and was pleasantly surprised to find most of them like guns and DON'T like the stupid laws.... but, they are the laws never the less. I know people who have brought in mags for guns they had prior to the ban. Illegal, but impossible to prove. I know people who have brought in guns illegally, which is patently insane because those guns were registered in another state after the Kali ban went into effect... so there is a federal paper trail proving the crime. It's up to the individual about how much risk he wants to take, but don't do something illegal where the registration date on the gun sale ticket is going to convict you. That's making it too easy on the Gestapo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Hmmm... I guess people never buy magazines without buying a gun first. I have 12 30-round AR mags in the other room. I don't now own and have never owned an AR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 This thread is drifting interestingly. To the original topic: I've found a gun that I can buy to satisfy my current need and I'll look longer term to finding a frame to get something built later. Thanks for all the input! I'm interested in an opinion on the magazine issue. I do have some pre-ban hi-capacity magazines (I hoard all kinds of stuff - if you ever need instrumentation for a 1950 RAF airplane, just ask ) and I'm wondering what I'm allowed to do with them. Is it legal to tweak a magazine to work with a gun different to its orginal home? The law does allow replacement parts for existing mags, right? What are the limits on that? If one maintains the overall count of high capacity magazines, does that satisfy the legalities? Some aspects of this question are (of course) purely theoretical but if one could take, say, a preban hi capacity 45 magazine and morph it to work with, say, a 9mm gun using only legally purchased replacement parts, would that be allowed? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 This isn't the Legal Forum (there ain't one!) and there aren't any ATF or DOJ agents here to to give you their interpretations of vague firearms laws. Any discussion of this sort is pointless. I have a low tolerance for such discussion, particularly when it deviates from the topic subject, and I will encourage the moderators to end it. The topic name is Buying an Open gun in California. The question posed is, "How does someone in CA lay hands on a decent Open 38 Super now?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I have a low tolerance for such discussion, particularly when it deviates from the topic subject, and I will encourage the moderators to end it. Sorry sir. I didn't mean it. It will never happen again. I swear. Can you for give me? It's my fault. That being said, kdj, do what you gotta do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Is it legal to tweak a magazine to work with a gun different to its orginal home? The law does allow replacement parts for existing mags, right? What are the limits on that? If one maintains the overall count of high capacity magazines, does that satisfy the legalities?Some aspects of this question are (of course) purely theoretical but if one could take, say, a preban hi capacity 45 magazine and morph it to work with, say, a 9mm gun using only legally purchased replacement parts, would that be allowed? That's an interesting question, Kevin. I know with post-ban 10-round magazines, modification to hold more rounds or in such a way that the magazines will not work in the original gun with the original caliber ammunition is illegal. However, with pre-ban mags I don't think there is a similar restriction. The CA DOJ's Firearms Division phone number is 916/227-3703, give 'em a call. KJ Curt is very good at what she does, ask for her. I'd phrase the questions exactly the way you have above. I can't see why it would be a problem as you can easily change the caliber of a firearm and that's legal. Report back with your findings if you decide to give the DOJ a whirl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Would it be out of line for me to comment that California sucks BADLY??? NOT you shooters........... The thought process(es) that go (or more accurately do NOT go) into their legislation HAS to be the result of too much LSD and glue sniffing when the lawmakers were younger and living in California. I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone here on the site a wonderful Holiday Season and a healthy, happy, prosperous New Year. Best to all, Jeffro (Jeff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 What 300#Gorilla said the last two posts. Sorry Eric for the politics. BTW, are you coming to NCPS on Sunday? Hope you're feeling better. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 To close out the thread: I am now the proud owner (but not yet possessor ... 10 days and counting) of a "previously owned" STI 38 super. Thanks to all those who helped in this search. I never realized how hard it would be to get a gun. My previous experience was in the UK and that then was actually easier than CA is today - although not any more Thanks to Kurt letting me look at a bunch of his "not for sale" guns, I've also got a pretty good idea of what I intend to get built ... once I can find a frame ... but that's another thread. So, again, thanks to all the helpful folk on this forum and I'll be here for the long haul so maybe I'll get to return the favor to someone someday Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I too have been out of the game since before the ban. I didn't realize that it was illegal to buy hi-cap's now. I remember when you could buy pre-ban Mfg'd mag's. When did they outlaw importation of them? Glad you found a gun. I too want one, and it looks like magazines may be the defining point. What a crock. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now