TheDarkOne Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) I had no idea Mensa had a shooting team!! Really though, I am simply dumbfounded by the wisdom found on this forum. This is some of, if not the most, cerebral discussion on any topic, let alone something as seemingly primitive as shooting. As I am new to the competitive shooting world, I am thankful I have found this forum, and honored to be in your presence. I am new to competitive shooting, 5 official competitions in (just local, nothing major), and have only been shooting handguns for about 6 months or so. I am trying to document my progress as much as I can, via youtube. Constructive criticism is welcome, just remember I am new, so go easy on me... http://www.youtube.com/user/tdo79 Right now, I am more tactically focused, than sport focused, so I hope there is room for me here. I figure the fundamentals are the same, and competition is a fun way to test those fundamentals, and gauge progress. I know I have a lot to figure out and improve on, but it seems as though I am in the right place to do so. Let the learning begin. Edited January 28, 2010 by TheDarkOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Right now, I am more tactically focused, than sport focused, so I hope there is room for me here. I figure the fundamentals are the same, and competition is a fun way to test those fundamentals, and gauge progress. Actually I have an article on that very topic, upcoming next month in Dillon's Blue Press, titled "The Martial Gamesman". If you get the chance, you might check it out. Welcome to BrianEnos.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 Right now, I am more tactically focused, than sport focused, so I hope there is room for me here. I figure the fundamentals are the same, and competition is a fun way to test those fundamentals, and gauge progress. Actually I have an article on that very topic, upcoming next month in Dillon's Blue Press, titled "The Martial Gamesman". If you get the chance, you might check it out. Welcome to BrianEnos.com. Absolutely, just let me know where/when to look for it. On this topic, one of my big questions/concerns is how to shoot a barricade in from the left side while competing. Tactically, at least from what I have gathered from those in the industry, you want to pie those corners shooting left handed and with the left eye, keeping as small a profile as possible. This obviously takes more time, and is pretty confusing to boot. Target acquisition is especially difficult as everything is backward when it comes to sight picture, and don't even get me started on reloading left handed. I tried this in my last competition, and my times suffered. I like the idea of being able to shoot completely ambidextrous, but am tempted to give it up in search for better times. I wonder how many competitors think like this, as of now, I have not ran into any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Welcome to the forum Shooting grows on you...and you may find USPSA shooting will turn your direction...and its a blast! The IDPA folks here can guide you in your current interests quite well. as an open USPSA guy, I cant be too helpful. Have fun...learn lots...shoot lots Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 Welcome to the forum Shooting grows on you...and you may find USPSA shooting will turn your direction...and its a blast! The IDPA folks here can guide you in your current interests quite well. as an open USPSA guy, I cant be too helpful. Have fun...learn lots...shoot lots Jim Thanks. Yeah, that is exactly why I prefaced that statement 'Right now', you never know what the future holds. Either way, I think we have more in common than not, so we can still be friends. As a USPSA guy, or just as a shooter, have you experimented with shooting with the opposite hand and eye? Just wondering if you or others here could still give advice on it, even though they don't compete that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 You don't want to hit the whole "tactical" concept too hard on these forums. This is a competition shooting forum, and discussion of self-defense usage of the handgun is strongly discouraged. Having said that, purely from a shooting standpoint, the people who advocate switching the gun to the left hand for shooting around a left side barricade are deluding themselves. Stand downrange from a person "armed" with a dummy gun and have them aim-in on you with the gun in the left and right hands. You'll see very little - if any - difference in exposure. But in return for that no gain, you're giving up a LOT in performance by switching the gun to the less dexterous hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) You don't want to hit the whole "tactical" concept too hard on these forums. This is a competition shooting forum, and discussion of self-defense usage of the handgun is strongly discouraged. Having said that, purely from a shooting standpoint, the people who advocate switching the gun to the left hand for shooting around a left side barricade are deluding themselves. Stand downrange from a person "armed" with a dummy gun and have them aim-in on you with the gun in the left and right hands. You'll see very little - if any - difference in exposure. But in return for that no gain, you're giving up a LOT in performance by switching the gun to the less dexterous hand. Hmm, well I didn't mean to step on any toes. (maybe we can't be friends after all) For clarification, (as I am not sure why it is discouraged), I am not talking about engaging actual human threats tactically, just cardboard. Since competitive shooting was born out of self-defense, there is going to be plenty of overlap. One obvious example is the shape of the IPSC targets. I am not trying to be confrontational, just not really sure where the line is that I am not supposed to cross. That is an interesting point about exposure though. I will have to test it out. If that is true, there are plenty of deluded Military and LE officers out there. This makes me want to read that article of yours even more now. Edited January 28, 2010 by TheDarkOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRANKIE D Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Yo, Dark One. Welcome aboard. Keep your ears open and pay attention to the pros on this site. They are amazing. I just joined up a few weeks ago and cannot believe what i'm learning. The best to you. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Andy, Don't take the warning about tactical discussions to mean you are not welcome. What is discouraged here is a discussions concerning "tactics" as in I am more tactical than you because I do XYZ reloads and you do ABC reloads. The mods and Brian make every attempt at keeping discussions oriented to the SKILLS involved in employing a weapon with the utmost SPEED POWER and ACCURACY. There are many other venues to discuss tactics, however very few places, and none better than here, to discuss skillset. Welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y. Koester Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Andy welcome to the forum. I would love to see you at ltd on the 6th!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Utah shooters and Team Firebird, I'm starting to see a pattern here. I have a UDPL meeting and practice set up for the 6th, so I won't be able to make it this Saturday. I will be looking into this though, and hope to see you all around. As for the tactics thing, I will zip it, thanks for the clarification and reasurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I have shot with bunches of LE guys of many departments....I dont see them doing the weak hand weak eye thing. If you think about exposure...consider, a plain jane B class shooter can engage and hit several targets in under one second. Just how much EXTRA time does it take to shoot from an unfamiliar and awkward position? In any case I think I would use the technique I was most adept at. Training with weak hand is a very good skill to develop, and we use it quit a bit. But weak hand shooting is not going to be on par with strong hand. Dont look at it as much of a tactic...but as a skill that may be important to have in certain situations. You should find a club and shoot some matches...USPSA IDPA no matter, both will have good shooters to learn from. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Jim, are you trying to goat me back into a tactical discussion? Let the records show that it was Jim's fault? I can only vouch for SLC SWAT, and the special operations community. You have me thinking though. Maybe that is just something for practice sessions on the range, not competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Giggle No goading my Friend Seek out the folks from Utah that have posted above....they will show you the way Grasshopper Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The reason that "tactical"/RWSD (Real World Self-Defense™) discussions are discouraged is that the sad experience of other message boards has shown that such discusions invevitably, and in short order, lead to conflict. BrianEnos.com has been referred to by more than one person as "an oasis of civility on the Internet" and we work hard to keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 The reason that "tactical"/RWSD (Real World Self-Defense™) discussions are discouraged is that the sad experience of other message boards has shown that such discusions invevitably, and in short order, lead to conflict. BrianEnos.com has been referred to by more than one person as "an oasis of civility on the Internet" and we work hard to keep it that way. That is the last thing I want to do is create conflict, especially as this is your forum and and am just the new guy; that would just be bad behavior on my part. I am just trying to settle in here, learn the ropes, who you guys are, and how you think. I will be very careful as to what I say, and where I say it. Mostly for clarification, such conversations will be had in this thread or PM's. I am not here to clutter up your threads, as they are very civil indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Nobody is trying to discourage you from posting. All they are saying is, this forum is about competition and the techniques that work best in competition. We are not about "real world" tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Nobody is trying to discourage you from posting. All they are saying is, this forum is about competition and the techniques that work best in competition. We are not about "real world" tactics. I hear ya, it just seems like there is a lot of tension between the two worlds, which kind of took me by surprise, but I guess there is a lot of history which I was not aware of. To me, the two methodologies have more in common that not. I mean, everything I have read so far transfers over to the RWSD situation just fine. Target acquisition, proper focus, sight alignment, trigger control, calling your shot, transitioning to the next target, etc. It's all the same, except you guys seem to have it broken down into a theoretical art-form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Right now, I am more tactically focused, than sport focused, so I hope there is room for me here. I figure the fundamentals are the same, and competition is a fun way to test those fundamentals, and gauge progress. I know I have a lot to figure out and improve on, but it seems as though I am in the right place to do so. Speed is "Tactical" !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Someone here has a tag line that reads Speed is a tactic...and a pretty darn good one It may be noted that Mil and LE have come to the high end USPSA shooters for advanced training. And that the Army A.M.U. shoots USPSA, USPSA Multigun and 3 gun...Those young men are HOT STUFF! If you wish to advance your skill set...shoot with the highest skilled shooters you can find. Most shooters will be happy to help you along..and the top dogs can show you where your goals should be. When you have honed your skills to a high degree...you may employ them as you see fit. You live in an area that has some Very good folks in it!...seek them. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 You live in an area that has some Very good folks in it!...seek them. Yeah, I am just barely getting into the scene, but have already met some of them. Of course, at this point, anyone I run into is very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Okay, guys, time to cool the "RWSD, speed is a tactic" stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 It's all the same, except you guys seem to have it broken down into a theoretical art-form. It's an artform, to be sure. Though it's much more than theoretical, there's a lot of actual application going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 It's an artform, to be sure. Though it's much more than theoretical, there's a lot of actual application going on here. I did not mean to apply that it was not applicable when talking about theory. Maybe cerebral would have been a better word. K, so I have been doing a little research into the USPSA world and have some questions on which division I would/should be competing in. First of all, some of these division seem to have a RWSD flavor to them, which surprises me since that is so taboo. I am currently competing with a full size single stack 1911. I have a mix of 8 and 10 round magazines, and no optics. Competing with the gun I would actually be using in the RW appeals to me, and doubt if I would ever get into the Open type divisions. With that said, is there room for me in USPSA competition, if so which division(s) would be best suited and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y. Koester Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Sounds like single stack division. Edited January 30, 2010 by BIGSHOOTER53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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