molson

Hello, I am using 4.35 grains of Solo 1000, 147gr Zero JHP, loaded to 1.145 COAL in my XDm 5.25 9mm. Makes 135 PF with no signs of pressure with a temperature of 45 degrees. Solo 1000 lot number is 1930. I will be using 4.25 grains of Solo 1000 loaded with the same components listed, but with a Solo 1000 lot number of 2223. Same temperature. I find that It is pointless to follow the book other than the starting load. What really matters is what the chrono and the shot cases (primers) are telling you. But of course your mileage will vary as well as you should keep in mind that this is what works for me in my gun with my components. Cheers! Molson

Sarge, Do you have young kids? Reason I ask is that at one point I did. I found several empty Crayola Sidewalk Chalk boxes. They are thick platic, have a handle, and best of all, they will hold almost exactly 300 rounds (a little more actually) of 9mm. Molson

Welcome, We have a match someplace somewhere here every weekend. This weekend is Lodi on Saturday, Oconomowoc on Sunday. Like Marv said, check out the wisconsinshooters.com site. There is a calendar of all the events, as well as a forum that contains the match announcements. You will also find that we are all a bunch of fun. Show up, introduce yourself, and have some fun. Molson

Try this stuff. It works for me. I shot yesterday and again today in 85 to 90 degree heat here in Wisconsin. Not exactly a "Dry Heat". http://www.c-clearantifog.com Molson

I really like the zip tie idea. First I have heard of that one. Being plastic, I do not see most people having an issue inserting that from the chamber end. I could see all sorts of objections to a pipe cleaner, but not really a bad idea though. I will add a couple of zip ties to the range bag. I carry a squib rod that has been used by numerous shooters. Having a zip tie will not add any weight and they are cheap. Thanks for the tip. Molson

He did not sweep himself. He was already shown clear, with no magazine in the gun, slide back, under the RO's supervision. Molson

Hello everyone, I am once again back to the forums vast base of knowledge to find out what the call is. Recently I was at a club match and a shooter had a squib. Fortunately, the shooter recognized this as well as the RO and was stopped. The gun was cleared of the magazine and ammo (of course). Slide was locked back and a pencil was inserted into the barrel. Indeed there was a projectile in the barrel. Here is the question: Is it OK for the RO to have the competitor holster the gun and then move to the safe area and clear out the projectile unattended? A possible rule to consider is: 5.7.5 Under no circumstances is a competitor permitted to leave a course of fire in the possession of a loaded handgun (see Rule 10.5.13). But, is this really a loaded handgun? There is no loaded cartridge in the gun, and no magazine in the mag well. The competitor went through the "If Clear, Hammer down, Holster" command sequence. So indeed, the gun did not go bang and also was determined to be clear. Other rules to consider: 2.4.1.4 Conduct inspections, stripping, cleaning, repairs and maintenance of firearms, component parts and other accessories. 2.4.2 Dummy ammunition (including practice or training rounds, snap caps and empty cases), loaded magazines, loaded speed loading devices and live rounds must not be handled in a Safety Area under any circumstances (see Rule 10.5.12). In the above stated rules, the safety ares is the place to fix the gun without question. Also, does a bullet that is only the projectile and not an assembled cartridge, dummy round, snap cap, or empty case hit against rule 2.4.2? I have been in this game for a number of years and am an RO. As such, I am always learning, and it seems that something new is presented every now and then to draw a question about the correct way to handle situations. This is just one of those that I am contemplating as to the correct way to handle it in the future. I was not the RO in this event, and I am not questioning the way it was handled right or wrong. Just wondering what you out there think. Molson

I would weigh 10 and get an average. Then, I would load for the advertised weight of the bullet (as long as it is within 5%) starting about 5 or 10% under the starting minimum charge. Then work up from there. In the end, I would not even bother doing it at all without a chronograph to check the results. Work up to the fps / power factor / accuracy you are looking for based off the average of the 10 weighed bullets and perhaps keep it within the high and low that your reloading manual says is safe for a bullet close to the actual weight. Molson

Do not forget about Powder River Precision.

Hello everyone, I have spent a lot of time looking for load data for the topic above. Unfortunately, there is really not a lot of concrete information on this. So, I decided to do it myself. After 3 trips to the range to chrono, I have come up with the following load data. I have attached my final load data that includes everything about the load. Load one (128 PF) Berry's 124gr HP Solo 1000 4.3gr COAL 1.0485 Temp 30 Sky Sunny 1) 1051 2) 1066 3) 1051 4) 1065 5) 1063 6) 1054 7) 1045 8) 1044 9) 1029 10) 1039 High: 1066 Low: 1029 E.S.: 37 Ave.: 1050.7 S.D.: 11.3 95%: 9.1 Final Load (133 PF) that I will go forward with. Very light recoil and all 30 shots into a 4inch circle at 25yards. Berry's 124gr HP Solo 1000 4.62gr COAL 1.052 Temp 30 Sky overcast 1) 1107.00 2) 1091.00 3) 1115.00 4) 1093.00 5) 1114.00 6) 1095.00 7) 1095.00 8) 1096.00 9) 1076.00 10) 1092.00 High 1115.00 Low 1076.00 E.S. 39.00 Ave. 1097.40 S.D. 11.10 95% 8.80 1) 1094.00 2) 1082.00 3) 1088.00 4) 1089.00 5) 1090.00 6) 1116.00 7) 1078.00 8) 1106.00 9) 1086.00 10) 1104.00 High 1116.00 Low 1078.00 E.S. 38.00 Ave. 1093.30 S.D. 11.20 95% 9.00 1) 1108.00 2) 1097.00 3) 1100.00 4) 1097.00 5) 1110.00 6) 1111.00 7) 1105.00 8) 1109.00 9) 1078.00 10) 1082.00 High 1111.00 Low 1078.00 E.S. 33.00 Ave. 1099.70 S.D. 11.00 95% 8.70 All these loads are compressed and NO WAY to double charge. I have found no signs of pressure on the primers. But, of course this is my load and you need to start very low and work up your own. You know, the standard disclaimer. I have a really nice spreadsheet that I will freely share that records everything I feel I need to keep track of the data. I exported most of it in the PDF I have attached. If at all interested, or you have some suggestions, PM me. Cheers! Molson 20111231.pdf

Kevin, I myself have been roasted more than once posting questions like this. It is not uncommon to see some sort of rules violation at nearly every club match. Anything from somebody claiming that this is a club match so I can declare whatever, to, I am going to start this way because the written stage description does not have a clear cut start position. So I feel your pain, and applaud your posting. Keep it up, I personally ask that you continue to bring forth questions. I know for myself, I learn something from most all of them. Molson

If you are going to buy it, consider saving the ebay premium and order direct from the company website. I have thought about this product myself. Problem is that a little polishing and well placed grease, and all is well. Molson

Gary, He would have easily been able to pick up his gun and retrieve the cable. According to the stage briefing, he would have needed to return to the shooting box behind the table to activate the swinger, with his strong hand. But he made a move out of the box with the loaded gun on the table, cable laying on the ground in front of the table directly in front of the loaded gun. So at that very minute, it did not look like that was in his plan. I have thought about this problem for awhile and on second thought, I probably should have let him continue with whatever he was going to do. He may have realized that he left his loaded gun on the table and he would have retrieved it safely and continued to finish the required actions without issue. Then again, he may have exposed himself to the muzzle end of his loaded gun. Stopping the shooter and retrieving the cable was my choice at the time fully knowing he was going to get a restart. Would I do it different in the future. Perhaps. Hopefully I will never have the chance to make that decision again. Hopefully this forum discussion will help others in the future as well as myself in making the correct call. Without question, the whole scenario could have been prevented with a little better stage setup. Like I said earlier, this was the first match setup for this crew. I was just a guest at this club and always enjoy the stages. I am sure that they were made aware of the minor tweak that could prevent this kind of situation from happening in the future. And with time and critique, they will get the hang of a great stage setup. But also as stated earlier, this was a fun stage as well as the rest of the stages were a lot of fun. Molson

Hello all, I am looking for input into how you all would handle this situation. Here is the setup. Target setup is not important, but out in front is a drop turner that is activated via 1 of 2 pepper poppers, 2 additional metric targets, a couple of barrels , and a swinger with a no shoot (no scoring target) that is activated with the pull of a cable. This cable is loose and is only attached to the table with a loop at the end that hooks into a screw on the table. Start position is standing behind a table, in a shooting box, handgun is loaded and placed on the table and of course pointing down range, weak hand hanging naturally at side, strong hand holding cable that is used to activate the swinging no shoot target. This swinging no shoot needs to be activated before engaging first target. OK, here is the reason I am writing this. Competitor makes ready by loading his gun, and then placing on the table as in the written stage briefing. He assumes that starting position, also as written. At the start signal, he pulls the cable to activate the swinging no shoot and releases the cable. Problem is that he does not pull the cable hard enough to activate the swinger. What is the correct call? Here are some of the things that came to mind in that split second. 1. Stop the shooter. Have them unload and show clear, and holster, or just holster the gun. Then retrieve that cable and hook into the provided hook. Then start over from make ready. 2. Let the shooter run around and retrieve the cable, leaving the gun on the table, then get behind the table into the shooting box, activate the swinger, and start the shooting. 3. Let the shooter holster his gun, retrieve the cable, run back to the shooting box behind the table, activate the swinger, and start shooting. OK, I know this is really poor stage setup. That is not in question. Several things could have been done to improve the stage. Affix the cable through something that would not allow the cable to fall off the front of the table out of reach of the shooter is the first thing. And the swinging no shoot could easily be a problem with a shoot through to the paper targets that were directly in it’s arch as well as 1 of the steel. This was a club match, and a VERY fun stage to shoot, so I am not even worried about that. Also, it was the first match ever setup by this crew. So a lot of credit needs to go out for a very fun and complicated match that took a lot of work to setup. I stopped the shooter, had them holster the loaded gun, retrieved the cable while the score keeper controlled the shooter (probably should have had the score keeper recover the cable), and started the shooter over from make ready. Thought process was that it was REF, and the loaded gun was a safety issue. By the way, the shooter was one foot out of the box on his way to the cable. It came up that it was possible that he should not have had the opportunity to have a restart. I disagree completely based on the loaded handgun facing down range siting on the table. Other than poor design, what do you say? Cheers! Molson P.S. Sorry for the long post. And, moderators, move to USPSA rules section if appropriate.

All, Thank you all for your very insightful comments. Before approaching the MD, I discussed some of the very points brought up in this discussion with others on my squad. The short coarse rule was never one of them and because of this discussion, this will now be factored into any future discussions that I take up with coarse legality and layout. I am very glad that I brought this to the forum. Not only did typing it out to post help me think it out further, I think it will help others if this should ever come up for them. I love that. In my original post I felt that according to the rule book, AND the stage description, that the steel must fall to score, AND it must be shot to fall. I did indeed point this fact out to the MD. That was when he pulled the level one exemption out. Now, myself, I am not a rule book lawyer, but I do understand the need for the level one exemption. I have pointed out many times, as well as others, that this exemption should be kept to a minimum, and only used when there is a compelling reason. This did not fit that, as it was a scoring issue. To answer the reason for the re-shoot, I think it was because the entire squad shot the coarse incorrectly. As pointed out, it was probably appropriate to just issue a failure to engage and a FTE. If I was the MD, that is what I would have done. But, and I would bet that it would have been argued by at least 3 or 4 of them, that they placed enough shots down range, and put one shot over the fallen steel to not deserve the FTE, only the Mike. This was the well known loophole finding squad at these matches after all. I must point out that this club is usually if not always a lot of fun to shoot at. The MD comes up with some very interesting stages with the limited space available. If it was not for his dedication and desire to hold matches, it is possible that this club would evaporate. Problem is that ever since the exemption was placed in the rule book, or maybe it has just been the last couple of years, stages and procedures described for shooting the stages have been getting stretched outside of the rules slightly. I as well as others have been working the angle to get it back under the rule book, and this event being discussed was the second time that day that somebody pointed out rule / layout violations. We will get it squared away as we help out in every way possible. Another side note is that at least 2 competitors have stated that they may need to stop showing up for this match. I am sure I was able to reason with them and convince them that they need to keep coming as we will get this worked out. Also, classifiers are by the book. Thank you all for reading and commenting. Also, for making me feel better about even challenging the way it was being shot and scored. Cheers! molson

I am interested in the Benos universe opinions on this stage situation. 3 Pepper Poppers 11 Metirc targets 25 rounds total The 3 Pepper Poppers are spaced between 3 and 5 feet apart directly in the center backstop of the shooting bay. Slightly right of center, behind the center pepper popper, a single metric target. About 9 to 12 feet off center, are 2 more metric targets, one on each side, roughly in line or so with the pepper poppers. About 4 or 5 feet forward of these poppers (walking backward), 1 metric on each side. Again, 5 or 6 feet in front of these targets (again walking backward) are 1 more metric targets on each side. Let us do this one more time, 7 or 8 feet in front of that set of targets, 1 more metric on each side. All these targets are outside of a shooting box. The shooting box continues to a platform at the front of the bay with a target on each side. I hope this setup description makes sense. Written stage description. Starting with both hands on center pepper popper, engage targets as they become visible from within the fault lines. Steel must fall to score, Comstock scoring, 125 points. Poppers must be engaged from shooting platform. This is required because of rule 2.1.3. Good to go. Obviously, this as written is going to require shooting while moving backward. Rainy day, ground is wet, but oh well, there it is. Also, the shooting platform is made of wood and can be slippery. We will need to deal with it. Talking to a super squad member(our clubs supper squad, not the nationally recognized super squad members), he was going to push the popper over and shoot the stage. Sounds reasonable to me as I had not read the stage description. I will keep this in mind as I am not on his squad and I will be several stages behind him. 1st squad to shoot this is the super squad with the match director and stage designer as the CRO. He is also a certified CRO. They shoot the stage and move on. My squad (the second squad) comes along to shoot this stage. First 2 shooters go through and shoot it as written. One of the super squad members comes over and tells us that the time to beat is xx and they pushed the popper over at the starting beep, and proceeded to shoot the stage. No FTE, no mike, no range failure, no procedural, etc. In my opinion, this is not legal and decide to talk to the MD. He pulls out the rule about being a level one match (he does this a lot) and it was perfectly within the rules. I suggest that I believe that the coarse of fire as written required the popper must be shot, and must be shot from the platform . If it was not required to be shot, then the pepper popper count should have been stated as 2, the minimum round count should have been 24, with 120 points total, and it should have been stated to push the popper over before engaging targets. He disagreed. What say you? Did they have a legitimate loophole? Moderators please move if this is not the correct forum please. Cheers! molson P.S. when I was leaving, it looked like they were all re-shooting the stage. Maybe I was right and the ro's on that squad agreed with me.

Why would it be an issue if you walk up to the line with your make ready mag in your hand? Your magazine will be inserted in the pistol at Make Ready. Per 8.2.3, you are not allowed to have a loaded mag in hand (or gun in hand) after Standby. But prior to that it makes no difference according to the rules if you walk around the range all day with a loaded mag in your hand (except the safety area, of course) or in any pocket you want. But if you intend to use a mag from the pocket after the buzzer, it's placement becomes important. Curtis Edited: 'cause I hate typos! Yeah, I do not see why it would be an issue either, and I would like to point out that the rule states "During the course of fire". Problem is I do not see why it would be a problem to use a magazine that you retrieve from your front pocket or for that matter from your waistband for make ready that others have pointed out either. It has been pointed out that depending on what division you are shooting in, it is possibly not legal to do so. So, if these are not legal, why would carrying that make ready magazine in your hand be legal? It is going to be carried in front of you, or at least in front of your holster and specifically designed magazine carriers at some point, making that mode of carry illegal. I know, it makes no sense. Another poster has pointed out that stowing a magazine in your front pocket after unload and show clear also bumps you to open. Again, this makes absolutely no sense. Again, this rule needs to be clarified and perhaps rewritten to remove any confusion. Different people are interpreting this rule differently. And this is going to be a problem from match to match, RO to RO, and competitor to competitor. I can see that this may very well be big problem for many. Bumped to open because I removed my make ready magazine from my front pocket? Bumped to open because I stowed my magazine after unload and show clear in my front pocket? I hope we get some wordage added to that rule to clarify the intent. Cheers! The wording "During the course of fire" does raise a question, in hindsight, because according to 8.3.1, the Make Ready command is the beginning of the COF. "After the start signal" might be a better choice of terms and would adequately address the issue without raising the sort of problems of interpretation you're worried about. The new rule seems designed to specifically address a slight gray area of interpretation of the rulebook regarding retrieval of magazines from the pocket for reloads...now this is specifically addressed as permitted, BUT there are still restrictions based on equipment requirements in a division like Production that requires all magazines and the holster to be behind the front of the hipbones. All this means is that IF you do use a magazine from the pocket for a reload after the beep (which is how I would interpret the intent of the rule as a CRO), that it was located as required by any restrictions in your division's equipment requirements. I usually keep my Make Ready mag with 11 rounds—I'm a Production competitor—in the front "cell phone" pocket on my 5.11s. The key is whether you are using this magazine for a reload after the beep. Stowing a magazine in your front pocket after unload and show clear bumps you to Open? Have you used this magazine for a reload during the COF? Would holding the magazine in your hand after If You are Finished Unload and Show Clear bump you Open...Of course not. You have to retrieve the magazine for a reload from a location not permitted, i.e. in front of the hipbone, after the beep and before Unload and Show Clear to get the ticket to Open. This rule is rather straightforward in correcting a gray area and I really don't see any problem from any R.O. with basic familiarity with the rulebook and this issue. If I'm wrong, I'm sure we'll both be corrected in short order...that's the great thing about a forum regularly visited by the NROI's instructor cadre. Curtis Edited for clarity and to address an additional point. Curtis, As far as this rule being a fairly large problem from the standpoint of interpretation, I really want to be proved wrong, and most likely will. I also agree with you about the NROI instructors visiting this forum being a huge benefit. If nothing else, maybe they can take this back to the rules committee and make this slightly more clear. I just want to also point out that at least one person opined that it is possible that at unload and show clear, magazine going into front pocket, may result in a move to open. I can not see the logic, but none the less, it has been stated. I don't know. I am just a simple guy that should not have even read this entire new rules discussion from the beginning. But I am also obsessive and want to be current on changes and the way the changes are applied to all. Maybe nobody is going to pay attention to this until they go to a major match, and this is where it will rear itself as a problem. Then again, maybe it will be put to rest before the shooting season takes off for the year up here. I will just sit it out and wait and see what shakes out. Molson

wi shooter What club(s) did you shoot at last year. Reason I ask is that it is a good chance I saw you there. Do not forget to check out this site if you have not already done so. http://wisconsinshooters.com This site has listings of upcoming matches, stages, scores from matches, and much, much more. Welcome Molson

Why would it be an issue if you walk up to the line with your make ready mag in your hand? Your magazine will be inserted in the pistol at Make Ready. Per 8.2.3, you are not allowed to have a loaded mag in hand (or gun in hand) after Standby. But prior to that it makes no difference according to the rules if you walk around the range all day with a loaded mag in your hand (except the safety area, of course) or in any pocket you want. But if you intend to use a mag from the pocket after the buzzer, it's placement becomes important. Curtis Edited: 'cause I hate typos! Yeah, I do not see why it would be an issue either, and I would like to point out that the rule states "During the course of fire". Problem is I do not see why it would be a problem to use a magazine that you retrieve from your front pocket or for that matter from your waistband for make ready that others have pointed out either. It has been pointed out that depending on what division you are shooting in, it is possibly not legal to do so. So, if these are not legal, why would carrying that make ready magazine in your hand be legal? It is going to be carried in front of you, or at least in front of your holster and specifically designed magazine carriers at some point, making that mode of carry illegal. I know, it makes no sense. Another poster has pointed out that stowing a magazine in your front pocket after unload and show clear also bumps you to open. Again, this makes absolutely no sense. Again, this rule needs to be clarified and perhaps rewritten to remove any confusion. Different people are interpreting this rule differently. And this is going to be a problem from match to match, RO to RO, and competitor to competitor. I can see that this may very well be big problem for many. Bumped to open because I removed my make ready magazine from my front pocket? Bumped to open because I stowed my magazine after unload and show clear in my front pocket? I hope we get some wordage added to that rule to clarify the intent. Cheers!

All, Please excuse me, but I have not seen this point brought up yet. Shooting production, I walk up to the line with a magazine in my hand. This magazine is the one I am going to use at "Make Ready". In carrying this mag, I most likely, walking as we humans do, will have carried it in front of me at least once. Based on the whole waist band, front pocket, etc arguments, this will also put me in open. Or am I just missing something here? I am so confused. This entire rule needs to be officially written and clarified as to it's real intent. Of coarse this is just an opinion, and as usual, I am probably so far off base that I should see a shrink. Molson

Hello all, Pay a visit to your local friendly auto parts store. A 3/16" deep, 1/4" drive socket will do the trick. Of coarse you need the drive handle also, but many of us have one of those laying around anyway. No grinding necessary on the ones I have used. Less than 15 bucks, and you do not need to worry about the screw loosening up like you do with those "inexpensive" tools supplied with most front sights. If you are on good terms with your auto technician, you might be able to talk him or her into letting you take your slide into the shop and install the sight right there at the front counter. I have one from Autozone, and it works perfect. I used my auto techs several years ago, and his was a Snap-on. Also a perfect fit. Cheers! Mike

Does anybody know where they are shipping their orders from? molson

This month we are hosting a special four classifier match at the Springbrook Sportsmans Club in Omro Wisconsin. Anyone wanting to get a classification or improve their classification can get it done at this match. Also the scores are guaranteed to be posted to USPSA in time to get a classification prior to the Area 5 match. There will be five stages total, four classifier stages and one field course. To avoid long waits under the hot sun we will try running squads in a staggered start. Shooting will start at 10am with squad one. When squad one moves to the last stage, squad two will start and so on, depending on how many squads we have. Because this is a special classifier match the fee is $20 for all competitors. Setup starts at 7:30am. if any shooter would like to help. http://www.wisconsinshooters.com/uspsa_clubs.htm

I did the same thing with my G35 and a Hogue grip. I decided to remove the grip and yep, there it was, the super glue. I went to the local hardware store and bought a quart of Acetone and put it in a glass container. I soaked the frame in the Acetone for about 10 minutes and removed it and scrubbed the grip with a stiff nylon brush. The super glue will turn white. After I did this a couple of times, the super glue was gone. That was two years ago and thousands of rounds later. No problems that I have ever seen from doing this. Of course, your mileage may vary. Good Luck, Mike