Hoops

Good morning, You reference your SC keeps in touch with 6 or so USPSA clubs in your section. Does your SC shoot or is involved in any of your local SCSA matches? Thanks

Makes sense to me. SC more involved at the local level than the overall AD. I'm trying to locate ours.....if any....for Area 4. Thank you

I initially voted yes in this poll re: more BOD's but after reading several posts, I decided to do some reseach. The notations below are from the Bylaws posted on the SCSA website under member resources specifically for Area Coordinators. What I have not been able to locate is a list of names of Coordinators within Area 4 (or any other Area). I have asked SCSA.org for the info. No reply yet. When I get the info, I will share it. If anyone else has the info for Area 4, please let me know the name. ARTICLE 11 ‐ AREA DIVISIONS: There shall be established within the United States certain geographical designations known as Areas. Each Area may be further divided into two or more Sections. The Board of Directors shall determine the number and composition of Areas, subject to Article 6 of these bylaws. ARTICLE 12 ‐ SECTIONS: A Section is a state or geographical area that contains a minimum of two affiliated clubs and is chartered by the corporation. 12.1 Chartering of Section: The President may charter a Section either upon application of the clubs within a defined geographical area or he may split an existing Section upon the recommendation of the Area Director. The Area Director shall appoint a Section Coordinator to administer a Section until the clubs hold an election therein. 12.2 Section Coordinators: The Section Coordinator shall be elected by the member clubs within his assigned Section, on the basis of one vote per member, or member club, as determined by the Section bylaws. The Section Coordinator's term of office shall be determined by the Section bylaws, and Sections must hold an election at least every two years. It is the responsibility of the Section Coordinator and the member clubs to organize and conduct an election each regular two year election cycle for their respective Section. 12.3 Purpose: The Section is the local link to USPSA for the shooter and section clubs. The Section Coordinator is responsible for insuring that every activity within the section represents the best traditions and standards of USPSA. Coordinator supports the development of new shooters and new clubs by providing information, support and guidance

I have seen a few comments relative to "section coordinator" within each Area. Section Coordinator's are defined in the bylaws as designated to be within each Area and not across Area boundries (unless special circumstances). Question: Does anyone know of a Section Coordinator within your Area and what they actually do? This is an elected position but I don't recall an election within Area 4 for a Thanks..........

Do you mind stating whether you shoot USPSA only or you shoot SCSA as well? Thanks

Understand/agree. You clearly are skilled....no intention to imply otherwise. I was president of a large steel fabrication company with plants in 4 states specializing in boiler tubes. We have welded AR500 plates for years......with Certified Welders such as yourself. But, if not trained and not using the right equipment and electrodes, most of the time the welds made by average folks who own welding machines have too little penetration into the plate and eventually the welds will crack from the repeated kinetic energy from the bullet. Shooting Targets 7 has a great system and allows using both sides of the plates. We use them in every SCSA match......no issues with the AR500 expoxed hook. For those who are opposed to the exposed hook, then shoulder bolts with springs is another good option. Anything that tightly holds the plate tightly against the hanger will tend to mute the sound and action of the plate when hit by the bullet. MGM's steel challenge target system also uses a hook system.

Bill, I would avoid welding on the 3/8" AR500 plate. Brinnell hardness can be between 500-550 and controlled pre-heat required...... and damage could occur to the plates. You also lose the ability to use both sides of the plates. Whether hook system, which I have and was used at Area 4 Texas this year, or spring loaded carrige bolt, both systems will allow flipping plates around. 'BTW.......the slotted plate and hook systems store so much easily. AR500 plates will outlive most of us but can be dammaged. The looser hanger systems...spring or hook.... are great for the shooter, the scorer and the life of the plates. Good luck................. PS.................if you are a rimfire shooter, 3/16" AR500 gongs for practice is great and so easy to move around. I have 4 and they do not pit by the 22LR.

I have been told that Chad is located in OK. Still no reply to my email. Some AD's have their phone number shown.....Chad does not.....so email is the only means of contact.

Tried that a few days ago. Nothing so far. Thank you

Bruce, It's been interesting to read these posts regarding SCSA BOD pros/cons. It prompted me to spend some time researching both USPSA and SCSA website and reading the bylaws. As I see it, Area Directors are non-paid salary positions with voting rights along with the BOD. The initial decription for AD's in the bylaws are: 11.1 Area Director: An Area Director and a Director as established in Article 5, except for the President, are one and the same. The Area Director shall i.) assist the Section Coordinators within his Area in whatever way possible to promote the corporation and its goals, ii.) promote the corporation's goals and actively solicit participation from individuals, shooting organizations and industry. Section Coordinators are described as: 12.4 Duties of Section Coordinator: The Section Coordinator is responsible for insuring that every activity within the Section represents the best traditions and standards of USPSA. The Section Coordinator supports the development of new shooters and new clubs by providing information, support, and guidance. Are non-paid, non-voting Section Coordinator's to be appointed to each State within the Area to help the AD cover the wide expanse of each Area (multiple states?). There is no information I could find on Section Coordinators in either USPSA or SCSA website links. Back to this poll and adding a separate BOD for SCSA. As an Area Director, what are your thoughts on the idea of having one Area MD each for USPSA and SCSA? Representation from each Area would be on equal standing for USPSA and SCSA for input to USPSA.org and equal standing in number of votes. No salary so no additional cost to USPSA.org. Thank you.....

Forgive me if I don't recognize your name or if you are part of USPSA.org. Your comments give the impression you are part of the organization. Are you? Thank you

does anyone know the Area 4 Director and the state he lives in? Also any Coordinators if Area 4 has any? thanks

I suppose at 70 and retired now, I am considered "elderly". I haven't been able to understand when their is a discussion on SCSA there tends to be references to elderly, women and children.....and usually by non-SCSA shooters. Not productive in my opinon. I am fortunate to have the means and the time to be willing and able to contribute to SCSA in my area to promote the sport. I'm confident there are many others just like me. Truth is, without volunteers every week, USPSA and SCSA would fail. But the rub would be at the USPSA management level.......not taking feedback seriously or otherwise blowing off the "old" guys. Folks from our generation would not suffer that for long.

In our area, there are very few cross-over shooters between USPSA and SCSA. In some ways, it's like comparing football to soccer. No matter the sport, the enthusist's or ardent supporters of each respective sport usually don't see the attraction to the other. The current USPSA organization is arguably skewed much more heavily towards USPSA and that's fine. It's a great sport for those who want to shoot it. Clearly from the current poll and comments, SCSA members are of the opinion that SCSA is under-represented at the current USPSA Board/Management level. What caught my eye in the BOD meeting notes were the number of people shooters in total and the breakdown of non-members vs. members. I was surprised at just how few participate in both USPSA/SCSA reguarly enough to be captured in the latest stats considering the population of the U.S. MD's are required to pay USPSA match fee's per person whether member or not so I assume this is where the data is collected. USPSA - 33,336 total. 19,726 (59.18%) members. 13,610 (40.82%) non-members. SCSA - 16,416 total. 7,449 (45.38%) members. 8,967 (54.62%) non-members. How much time does the current BOD have or dedicate to building up the membership and giving deserved attention specifically to SCSA is not known.....but it is perceived to be "not enough".

Thanks for everyone who participated in the poll and making comments. I have asked the moderators to close this poll. Perhaps after USPSA management settles down a bit from the recent changes this subject can be raised again. Hoops

Thanks

Is this information posted somewhere by USPSA/SCSA? I have often wondered what the stats are.

Yes. Two very different sports.

Today's NROI email topic is for USPSA as they usually are. But there were several things in this publication that made me think about our current discussion on stage options, change and perhaps even Outer Limits. It may not correlate to you but I thought the artical was interesting. BTW.............at 70 now, I think I may be "Uncle Joe" or closing in on him https://nroi.org/stage-design/ethics-and-stage-design/

I looked again at Area 4 CCI: Centerfire - 41% Rimfire - 59% Centerfire Pistol - 22% PCC - 19% Rimfire Pistol - 29% Rimfire Rifle - 30% I did not run numbers on (would take a lot of digging) the percentage of individuals that shot both Rimfire and Centerfire which I did. From my circle of observation at the match, there were a number of individuals who were shooting Rimfire and Centerfire guns. The point of this, perhaps.........going back to the original topic......in my opinion, from reading posts and doing a reasonable amount of research on this........is that SCSA shooters who shoot at smaller ranges (but not limited to this only), that would like to see added official stages are not interested in Rimfire Challenge as an alternative. Instead, they/we/me would like to see additional SCSA stage options shooting both Centerfire and Rimfire guns. Hope people continue to take the poll.

I forgot one additional comment: Your comment regarding Rimfire Challenge assumes that folks who would be in favor of adding additional SCSA stages only shoot rimfire. This is not the case. I do shoot rimfire rifles and pistols but I also have an M class in PCCO and I also have STI Steelmaster 9mm and STI Edge that I enjoy shooting. From what I have read from the "Yes" voters, they (and me) are ardent SCSA shooters who enjoy being able to shoot rimfire and centerfire guns.......and we dislike Outlaw stages being mixed in. The yes voters are typically driven by the restrictive size of OL and SO based on their local range physical situations and are looking for solutions. It is not uncommon in our local matches to see two guns.....one centerfire and one rimfire. Clearly the COVID-19 era has seen an increase in rimfire due to cost, shortages of casing, powder and primers associated with centerfire. You probably see this at your local SCSA matches. Thank you.. ps. I totally agree with your comments regarding USPSA RO classes.............there is no reason not to offer RO certifications just for SCSA. USPSA - SCSA ----Two different sports.

It's great to have 7 ranges to choose from where 4 of the 7 can accomodate SO and OL. You did not specify if the 70+ participation range was an 7-8 bay range that shoots OL and SO but perhaps it does. It is also great that most competitors in your area that shoot L2 and higher have access to range(s) that shoots OL and SO or a place to practice them. Unfortunately, as several have expressed in their posts, their areas are not as range rich as is in your area. If that were the case, this topic probably would not have been started. Thanks for your comments.

The ladies, pre-teens and juniors are impressive for sure...........and often intimidating to some egos. I would prefer we keep the posts on the subject of adding stages and the pros and cons. Thank you...............

Shred..............few Centerfire stats. Tandemkross 2021 Area 7. Carry Optics (CO). 34 Shooters CO (Centerfire) Due to the few shooters that shot below Peak Times, the following order is based on SC-101, SC-102, etc. 1. 5 to Go - 9% under Peak Time / 91% above Peak Time 2. Showdown - 0% / 100% 3. Smoke & Hope - 3% / 97% 4. Outer Limits - 3% / 97% 5. Accelerator - 0% / 100% 6. Pendulum - 0% / 100% 7. Speed Option - 0% / 100% 8. Roundabout - 0% / 100% Outer Limits (here and the other matches) is skewed towards younger shooters overall based on physical ability to move quickly between shooting boxes.

1. Two additional stages that would be more standard width and lenght would allow quite a few clubs/ranges to shoot additional official stages. Mix is up more other than shooting the same 5-6 stages all the time. 2. More ranges could shoot an 8 stage Level II match without OL and SO. 3. Two more stages would give folks who have classifications with only 4-6 of the same stages the opportunity to expand their classification base. Yes, without OL and SO, perhaps classifications would remain overstated, but 8 of 10 is a better statistical representation than 6 of 8 if the two added stages were designed to have Peak Times of 8.50 to 9.50. 4. Give MD's the opportunity to avoid tossing in Outlaw stages...which most SCSA shooters do not like....and may not attend for that reason. There have been seveal posts with some additional good reasons but this is just a quick few that I thought of.