Mick

I'll assume you are going to compete with these 9mm loads and want the softest round you can get at around 130 PF (power factor). If so, N340 will give you more noise and recoil. Many of us shoot N320 in our major .40s to reduce this but in reduced loads such as minor .40 or a light 9mm, I have found CLAYS gives enough pressures to run the gun right. That meaning there is enough case pressure to expand a brass case against the chamber walls for proper sealing and still give enough rearward bold thrust to run the gun reliably. With that said, I have been loading minor/lighter loads in 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP with CLAYS. I loaded up 2500 rounds of 9mm for a friend last month with a 125 MG FMJ @ 1.150" with 3.7 grain of CLAYS. In his 5" SV it runs about 1050 fps for a PF of 131 and he can't believe how soft it feels. He dropped to an 8# recoil spring and the gun will run sub .15 splits. In my .40 I normally run around 5.0 grains of N320 under a 180 Zero FMJ @ 1.160" for about 950 fps/171 PF. Leaving everything the same except changing to 3.5 grains of CLAYS gives me 815 fps/146 Pf which feels softer than a 146 PF! We ran this 9mm load through a 5" XD against WOLF factory 115s and the recoil was night and day softer!!! Clays, like Titegroup can be had for about $15/lb unlike the VV powders which go for around $20/lb...

When I practice at DPC I usually set up some arrays that have overlapping targets (ala JCSS) with steel plates in somewhere to break up the hoser mentality. I seems to make me watch the front sight more......come join me.

YES but that is California and we know how that can be! Norco is famous for running and gunning!!!

Hmmmm... I've been getting all the Zero 180 FMJs I want...? I run my PF a little higher than most and run 4.9 grains of N320 under the 180s @ 1.160". I've had some problems with the MGs in my AET barrel. I started seeing alot of keyholes in the targets and whenever I mike a .40 MG the best I can get is .3985" to .3995". My last batch of Zeros went over .400" for every bullet I checked........???? I use this load for everything. In any case, find what works for you with what you can get easily and hit the ground running!

We have noticed a decline in the number of shooters willing to drive over 100 miles to matches including me. With $4 a gallon and high ammo prices not to mention match fees, it gets hard to spend $100 every weekend for matches unless they are close. Look at the 3 gunners. It was hard to find .223 for much under 50 cents a round and then need 100 rounds for a match and ammo for the shotgun and pistol. We had 30+ on Saturday but that was a match that was 30 miles or so

It was good to see a bunch of the guys out there from the various sports. I think a good time was had by all and I'd like to see y'all come back!!!

Good job Pat! I have to deal with the "Tacti-cool set" all the time. They just don't get it. THEY are the ones who practice for the REAL WORLD ( have we had this discussion before!?) But when it comes down to getting the one or two rookies over the hump to pass their qualifications, who gets them through it. A competition shooter! Why? Because we focus not only on fundamentals but the little things they get us through a competitions as Pat mentions....we focus on things we are NOT good at. Case in point in the last class. I had one that just could not get to 80%. When they were done with him I had him shoot the course and saw where he failed. We then fixed those issues. In the process I found a physiological problem with his left eye that kept him from closing it for any length of time and caused him to see the sights poorly. I can't fix that but we can practice closing the eye to build the skill needed. I used to buy gun mags all the time but they made big piles and I ended up giving them away or starting the fireplace with them. I don't buy them much anymore but I bought this one JUST for Pat's article. It's good info and puts alot of good logic into why you should shoot competition even if you don't like the idea of competing (that's for the "Tacti-cool set"). I don't care which competition you shoot, you WILL learn something in most of them. Me? I like USPSA LTD, 3 gun and steel plates. You can't go wrong!

Those matches were a bit different than they are today. They had to do some physical stuff we no longer do. In those days, an athletic fella with a minor gun (high cap too) could make up some time and win.....

A really old 1050 in 9mm, 38 super, .40, and 45 a CH 3 station press that's 20+ years old too a PW 950 elite for shotshells I gave my old 550 to a buddy years ago now he has two and doesn't have to change the primer feed.

"Mick....the san angelo rules, while a great idea....don't hold a candle to the ease of scoring in either IMGA or the "Horner" method. Just remember though....its a game, it they didnt keep score, we wouldnt have as much fun. But keeping the scoring easy, and fair keeps up the fun factor. " You've got that right....

After shooting 3 gun with USPSA and "San Angelo Rules" there has to be an easier way. Locally, an IDPA club has been running a carbine match using straight IDPA scoring. I'm not affiliated with IDPA in any way but I like how they score it and I have added a stage where a pistol was also used. It is very simple and the scoring is done at the same time the match is. Accuracy is required but you have to go fast to win. I'm for it.....

Not even close....

Exactly! That's why I try everyone's gun and loads. One of these days I'm gonna figure this game out. Someone must be doing it right...... I don't think I can do the camo 1911 SS thing....Derrick!

Did it work? Just don't do it on a Virginia count stage!!!

We could do it with just one pneumatic or electric turner....

"In the beginning you will feel out of control and sloppy but as you adjust to the new speed you will calm down and adjust. You'll start seeing the front sight and your target spot as you get more and more used to the speed." That is pretty much what the C class guy said. He got used to the time and calmed down...... He quit point shooting and started to see the sights.

In addition.... Al, you know I'm not getting any younger. At 52 with some extra weight and bad eyes, I will take all the incentive I can get. I probably wouldn't have pushed that hard if it weren't for the outside source making me hurry. Everyone gets an invitation!!!!

Al, I think most of the competitors here who have been here for awhile will feel that "sense of urgency" with a timer as they are used to hearing the timer sound etc....(conditioning?) The thing I like about the turning target pushing you was the visible outside source pushing you rather than your brain telling you to go fast. If I win the lottery I will set up something like this for all of us to play with.....among other things!

I started trying something this year that I hadn't tried before... I was talking to one of the doctors from a local professional football team as well as a retired lineman. (no names) It seems they used to push for speed by putting weights or drag chutes on players to try and increase their speed. Now they have tried something new. They tie the player behind a motorized vehicle (low speed) and pull them at just over their ability to create a "sense of urgency" and more speed. Maybe it's just mental but the player pushes harder to keep up AND has a goal readily in place..the moving vehicle. So I wondered how I could apply this to shooting...... I have access to a computerized range with turning targets so I stood at 7 yards with 5 A zones painted on each of 5 randomly turning targets. The computer turns them randomly for 2.8 to 3 seconds. First I started by firing one round per A zone and felt a "real sense of urgency" to get hits on all 5 but in no time it became easy as my brain got used to the speed. Then I started firing 2 shots per A zone and found it hard but after another session it was definitely do-able. I felt like I was being pulled at just over my ability and found the need for speed as described above. Hmmmm... I have a couple of local guys who are strong B and C class shooters. The C class guys struggles with his draw and transitions. We set up a couple of Sunday sessions after his most recent match. He started on the 5 A zones with one shot each and it took awhile to get there BUT he made it. Note, each of the 5 cardboards has a different array of the A zones as in verticle vs horizontal etc....He could get the 5 horizontal As well but the verticle ones were harder even starting on the bottom. Next I put up different targets, a mixture of things for him to do. One full target for a Bill Drill. One double set for 2 As per target (4 shots) and some colored A zones for one shot per target. He really had to think about what he was getting for a target! At the end of the session I timed him for some one shot drills at 7 yards. He was getting to 1.05 second for the first shot on occasion and averaged around 1.25 seconds. At last month's plate match he was averaging 2.4 seconds on a 9 yard 12" plate! I tried one more drill..Doing reloads. I had him pick just one A zone and when a target turned he was to draw and fire one shot reload and fire another. He was getting it by the the third magazine! I'm thinking this is working! The B class guy showed similar results but was a bit faster and so it should be.... Now this is all well and good but there is one hitch...We were on our PD's range and had an unlimited supply of ammo so long as they were shooting 9mm. I have to bring my own .40. In any case, I think I may have a way to push for more speed other than just standing there trying to go fast... I like that "sense of urgency"!

I would think if you shoot THE classifier as a master, you get to claim master status.

I bought a 1050 in the 80s and I'm thinking '87 or '88. It is nickel finished one. I had a C-H 3 stage press (they went to 4 right after that) and a 550. I still use the 1050 alot as it's now a .40. .38 Super, 9mm, and .45. I remember paying $800+ for it when I made only about $15,000 a year. My wife thought I was nuts paying so much for a reloading press. I still have the 1050........ In any case I went to buy a RL1000 (even more money) and they had just quit selling them due to the new 1050. Anybody know what year that was? I gave the 550 to my best buddy who then kept one in both primers sizes. I still use the CH for rifle stuff.

I've loaded .40 JHPs for a converted Delta Elite with a ramped Schuemann barrel, a factory Kimber .40 and a SA custom shop .40. For all three guns we used Chip's 9 round 10mm mags and either a Sierra or Rem (Golden Saber) 180 jhp loaded to 1.160". I've seen some loaded to 1.180" that worked well but the shorter rounds, 1.135" didn't work very well.

Locally we have some 9 Major guys shooting Silhouette with good results. I was told by an industry guy that it is nothing more than WAP.... I guess I will have to try it and HS6.

"Shooters may not go down in classification except for permanent physical disability or for other irrevocable reasons. IDPA HQ will determine this....." In USPSA you can petition to go down if by age or injury or whatever... I say stay with what you earned but it's nice to know you can go to where you actually can compete again.

Thanks. I was hopping Alf would tell me about his N350 and 3N38 loads. I saw awhile back that TGO was using a 9 major gun with 130/135 loads and N350. Mine is still back at SV but I'm thinking the N350 load at 1.170" might be good. I have LOTS of 9mm brass!!!