rvb
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Posts posted by rvb
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RVB, IMO what you described is how to shoot A's consistently and lacks an element of time.
What I'm talking about is speeding up everything until I causes me to not hit the target. Then learn how to shoot a's at that pace. Not really talking about body movement, rather minimizing the time it takes to shoot target arrays.
I'll post my whole idea below.
I'll have more time to digest your post tonight, but no, I am talking about fast shooting, AND doing it w/ As. You can go till you crash/burn and go by that 'feel' for speed, or you can do it visually.... as soon as your happy w/ the sight picture you break the shot. you can call the shot, track the gun returning, recognize a good-enough sightpicture, and break the following shot all very fast. It takes some visual patience, but that doesn't mean you do it slow.
what I think you are talking about is the theory behind a timing drill. learning to 1) track the sights and 2) return the gun at a given pace... keep lowering the pace until you can control the gun and see everything in that split time. Look up burket timing drills. The std is 1/0.5/0.25 splits. in my prime I was going for 0.15s also. As tight a group as you can get at 10-15 yds, 25 rounds, 0.15 splits... mix it up by adding a couple of targets and including transitions in the timing drill. learning to 'miss fast' is not part of that equation....
-rvb
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A thought crossed my mind.
"I didn't learn to shoot A's fast, until I learned how to miss fast."
Is that true for everyone? Is there another way to do it? Is there a better way?
More later...
There's a learning process involved in being able to missing fast?
Are you saying you couldn't shoot As fast until you learned to pull the trigger faster?
In order to shoot As fast you have to be able to 1) shoot A's in slow fire, 2) be able to see the sights lift and return (and call the shots) and 3), have the patience to not pull the trigger until you have an acceptable sight picture.
somewhere in there is proper timing of the gun, but I think that's learned from the other visual cues........
-rvb
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Call the shot... Snap the eyes to the next target....
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Last match of the year....bummer!
production at fwaps. What a train wreck. First two stages were my design. I shot the first, an 18-round course, pretty well. A couple to many Cs, but they were while moving hard and there were near-by no-shoots. 88% of the points, so not too bad.
2nd stage, crash and burn!! 10 round short course. 1 mike and 2 Ds. But I was damn fast!! haha. called the mike, but was on my way out of the shooting area and didn't want to take time to step back in.
classifier. 99-24. Time wasn't bad and T2-T3 hits were solid. T1 had a Mike/NS, and 2 Ds. solidly hit the NS on the draw. pushed too hard.
45 points (8A, 1C, 2D, 1M, 1NS). 5.65s total time. 4.4248HF.
Next stage, I had some grip problems. (been experimenting w/ getting elbows higher, which seems to put more pressure on the top of the gun, resulting in less wobble when the shot breaks. what I learned yesterday is it warbles up my grip enough it was slipping out of my hand in recoil). That messed with my mind enough I forgot a target. 2M/FTE.
I decided for the last two stages to forget the experimentations, forget record-setting times, and get freaking As. I rocked the last two stages. even beat a master open shooter on one, and just behind him on the other (2nd overall). I shot 97% of the points on stage 2 (25A/2C), and 96% on stage 3 (26A/3C). I ran it them smooooth. THAT's how I want to shoot next year.
I didn't want to end the season with 60 penalty points. But I least I ended w/ two solid stages. I only needed 1 extra round on steel all day... a ~20yd plate, 1st shot from holster.
Better visualization/planning. Mental focus on getting As. Efficiently getting from position to position. A simple combination that wins. Why do I keep getting away from it.
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Shot a multi-gun at Hillside this weekend. First time at a 3-gun/multigun since I moved to IN... I'm guessing ~8 yrs.
Looks like I came in 7th / 26 in tac-optics (Would have been 8th if not for Corey's squib).
Corey let me use his Benelli, so thanks, Corey!
Stage 1 was shotgun, and it went as well as expected. It took me ~50% longer than the fast guys for just 12 static clays. I tried for a couple of vertical doubles but I think I was hitting a bit low (not getting the sight picture I had practiced a couple days prior) and that didn't happen. VERY SLOOOWWWW getting shells into the gun. I failed to count how many I was stuffing in there and I think I took time to stuff a couple too many...
Oh, and I couldn't remember where the safety was located on the dang gun..... fumbled the start.
Stage 2 was all rifle. I was <2 seconds slower than the fast guys.... I think what hurt was 1) followed a bad stage plan (was leary about a hard-right lean around a wall/port w/ the longgun in the strong shoulder... that was a mistake, it was easily do-able) and 2) over-aimed, waiting to pull the trigger til I was in the A vs going for "2 on brown."
Stage 3, all pistol. Piss-poor draw, decent shooting. IIRC there were 17 steel plates and I only needed one make-up. poor job pogramming my positions and plan...
Stage 4 ("shoot off" stage)... visually impatient on the rifle, had a couple of low hits, right on the bottom edge of paper. called them and made 2 up. Thought another was high enough but w/ the distance/zero it must have just went under the paper. Was trying to push 2-on-brown as a lesson learned from stage 2 and it bit me with a miss. rocked the pistol, and slightly over-swung the stop-popper and had to fire a quick second shot (not sure if enough shot caught it to make it fall on the first round).
Not a bad first time out.... learned quite a bit about the differences in how to run multi-gun stages vs uspsa... had some fun.. still seems like a lot of gear to drag out to only shoot a couple dozen rounds from each gun............
-rvb
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I don't think it's possible to top this elevator prank....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N5OhNplEd4
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Did a little shooting today....
Draws... Dry fire pays off. Feels like that moment in Happy Gilmore: "uh-oh. Happy learned how to put!"
At 5yds, best was a 0.83, worst was a tick over 1s. All in the A of an IDPA target.
My first turn/draw was a D in 1.1. Just visual laziness, I didn't find the middle of the A, and the bullet went right where I looked. Next few t/d's were As, all in the .9 to 1.1 range.
2 bill drills.... First was 2.2 with a .4 trigger freeze on the last shot. Second was a 1.7x
Dot torture.... Took my time (123.x seconds), score was 45. So..... Nearly double my time, and score stays the about the same? I WILL shoot this freakin clean someday.
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Tested a load for popper calibration. 120.4 PF from 3.0gr titegroup under a zero 147gr JHP at 1.150"-. This was from my G19.
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
shot production at FWAPS this weekend. won HOA.
I was disappointed and suprised in my points, at just 89% (though maybe w/ 4 Ds and 2 Ms I shouldn't have been surprised), I felt like I was slowing down and going for more As, with the exception of farther targets where I was going for a bit more trigger speed to ballance that 'over-aiming' feeling I had been experiencing.
One of the Ms was a clipped barrel edge. The round keyholed into the target but the barrel was hardcover. The second miss was on the classifier.
The classifier was 99-13 Quicky II. score was 76 points in 14.26 w/ -10 for the miss (HF=6.5217). Targets were T1=6A/2C, T2=5A/2C/1M, T3=6A/2C. I have no idea what happened for that miss. I didn't call anything way off. Either I really pulled off and didn't call it, or it was a legit double, I dunno. Hard to pull off too much w/ those no-shoots on either side....
I had one plan goof on stage 1. Plan called for a standing reload and I was going to do it in the middle of an array of steel. I got carried away hosing steel I forgot the reload (not too often we do a standing RL in prod!), realized it when I got the deafening 'click' on an empty chamber. Otherwise my plan execution was pretty solid throughout the match, so I was happy from that standpoint. On stage 2 I even changed my plan during my final on-deck walkthrough and pulled it off.
I had two make-up shots on steel for the day, and one of those I hit it and it wobbled, but didn't fall. Someone later said it appeard to have a broken weld around the hinge. I didn't get back to the bay to look at it before it got torn down, I wanted to mark it for us to look at/fix over winter.
-rvb
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The best RM's I have worked with will put an overlay on the target, with the shooter standing right there, and explain the call they are making. I don't know if this happened in this case or not. It sounds like the RM might have been attempting to do that but the shooter refused.
I've seen some RM's that can make the shooter feel good about the fact that they just DQ'd from the match. I know I personally don't have that tact, and that is why I will never act as an RM. I could tell someone they just won the lottery and somehow my presentation will piss them off.
That was my take as well.
Sounds like the MD made a simple situation difficult. The RM maybe could have defused it by asking to talk to the CRO and shooter, not the MD, but just walking into the situation may not have even been aware of any tension.... hard to tell w/o being there i guess.
thx,
-rvb
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The troubling part for me was when the RM finally showed up. The MD had the targets in hand, and we started walking towards the RM's golf cart. The MD stopped and told me " you stay here, I will tell you when you can come over to us". I stayed where I was but was still close enough to hear the conversation. He then proceeded to make his case to the RM why the target was a NS hit. She agreed with him and I was summoned to their meeting. I told them at this point there was no need because he had made his case already, so I just went back to the match. Is that the normal way for this situation to happen? Should I have demanded to stay with them for the conversation?
These kinds of incidents are what perpetuate the "us vs them" mentality. MD should have stayed out of it. RM should have been professional enough to handle this better.
I'm curious, based on the description given, what did the RM do wrong? He was summoned, arrived, and scored the target, right? For scoring a target, should a shooter expect an opportunity to "present his case before the judge?" It sounds as if the MD was a bit harsh, and had no real reason for keeping the shooter away from the "meeting," but conversely should the RM have waited to score unless the shooter was present or had "pleaded his case?" All the RM needs to do his job is the target, right???
Honestly trying to learn what the RM should have done different to best do his job; I'm not being contentious....
Thanks!
-rvb
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Yes, dust it off I've been telling you, err waiting.
perhaps for the Iliff Winter Indoor Invitational matches.....
-rvb
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*More random thoughts*
I see two types of upper level USPSA shooters.
Fast and erratic: Explosive all the time, but ready to shoot when they get there.
Smooth and deliberate: No wasted time and never rushed.
Im not sure if either is better/worse than the other, but I want to be somewhere in the middle. Explosive when necessary, and never waste time.
How to shoot USPSA:
...
Stance helps to control recoil, and prepare the body to move.
Entry / exit (soft & explosive) First one to the last position will always win.
I've never tried to fit a certain "style," just do what seems right at the time.
In general, I try to be smooth moving ENTERING positions, getting on the trigger as soon as possible. Then explode when EXITING (if you can call accellerating my fat ass exploding) to get to the next array. This usually means if I'm coming up on a wall or port, I'm shooting a target or two while settling into the exact position, and easing onto any fault lines, hard leans, etc. Then after the array (eg leaning hard around a wall), I no longer have to worry about fault lines and can 'explode' out to head to the next position.
Lots of stage designs will break that mold, but that's been my general method of attack the last couple years.
It's a little more difficult to be explosive in production, because usually I'm trying to get that reload done before really taking off. Actually, come to think of it, maybe that's been part of my execution problem I discussed above... my brain has been telling me to MOVE to the next position, and forgetting to get that reload done first. Thanks for your help on that issue! Maybe I should just say forget the reloads and dust off the open gun! that'll fix it.
-rvb
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I guess the whole point Im trying to make is that gear doesnt matter. ....
I have told many people that if I could do it again, I would buy a production gun and a lot of ammo components. I am kind of embarrassed that I spent so much time switching my gear around. I want to stay in Open, but I dont know if I can maintain an Open rig. They are expensive to setup, and expensive to fix when they break.
you are right that you can't buy performance... But I think I made the mistake of being on the other extreme. I shot a beretta 92 from the time I started idpa in ~2001 through 2011 (w/ a couple years in open just cause I was getting burned-out / bored). I learned more about my shooting in the last few months switching to glock than I did in the previous several years, just because the change forced me back to fundamentals. Trigger press, reloads, draws, etc were un-familiar and exposed problems. Solving the problems made me better.
If you can say you learned something each time you switched gear around, then it wasn't a total waste.
I've had lots of people, over the years, say how easy the dot is, most of these asshats don't have a clue. What they have are EXCUSES for their laziness.
learning to really shoot an open gun was one of the hardest things I did. Learned a ton about the importance of a good index ("where the hell is the dot?!") and how to really control the gun w/ my vision. I don't know that it's necessarily harder to move up in classes in open... I moved up w/ my prod/open classifications pretty much in parallel. W/in a couple months of getting A in prod I got A in open, and w/in a couple months of getting M in open I got my M in prod.
My overall finishes in big matches is usually alot better than what people expect, but that is because I am going in with a crap load of big match experience,
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I never go to a stage and think oh I can push it here, or I should be able to do it this fast.......that is a disaster waiting to happen for me.
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The other on big matches, ... thinking too much then it isn't fun, if you bomb a stage and let it suck you down then you are not having fun.
Yea, Chris and I were discussing this at the FW Match a couple weeks back.... no matter how good the technical shooting is, there are so many things that can throw you at majors, and that's a lot of the reason people don't finish in their class %. Just the volume of stages, props you haven't seen before, stage designs that aren't what you are used to seeing in your area, etc. Learning to deal w/ your own expectations/disapointments, etc is big.... ie letting that tanked stage out of your mind and not letting it influence how you shoot the next stage or learning to shoot your own game when you have a national champ on your squad vs trying to keep up, etc.
What makes USPSA different than other shooting sports is that shooting skills is only 1/3 of the challenge. Everyone learns at a different pace. I think I have developed my shooting skills faster than I have my Stage & Match Skills. This really intrigues me. How do I get better at the other 2/3?
Shooting Skills: Trigger pull, Stance, Grip, Draw, Reloading, Transitions, Movement
Stage Skills: Breakdown, Visualization, and Execution
Match Skills: Hydration, Nutrition, Mental Management, and Rulebook interpretation
Good observation. I would probably put a little more emphasis on shooting, but all that "other stuff" is important too... put mental management up in stage skills and match skills isn't that big of a deal. Maybe 60/30/10% then.
One thing I can share after putting shooting on the back burner the last couple years (I haven't traveled out of IN to shoot since ~2010), is I found the execution is the hardest thing to maintain. The shooting can be maintained (not improved, just maintained) w/ 1-2 hrs of dryfire per week. But I look at my IN section match video, and I see all the places I didn't follow my plan, didn't start a reload immediately, etc, and I see dozens of seconds lost. I think that's what shooting 2-3 local matches/month gets you is the ability to practice your execution/visualization. It's as much a perishable skill as shooting, just harder to maintain outside of a match environment.
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Warsaw yesterday (production).
only shot 84% of the points! 3 mikes! 1 penalty! OUCH.
Started on stages 5 and 6. These had opportunity for some shooting on the move and I was simply too agressive, really pushing my foot speed. Stage 5 I shot as close to a full run as I could and still keep the gun on target. I called a miss on one target and had time to make it up, but for some reason I got this idea in my mind that it would mess up my reload plan, but I had 3 spare rounds in that mag (stupid brain). Stage 5 I only shot 74% of the points. Stage 6 I only shot 85% of the points, and got caught needing a standing reload for my last shot due to too many make-up shots on steel.
I pulled my head out of my backside for stages 1 and 2; I got over 91% of the points on both (and Stage 1 was turtles). I was 2nd overall on stage 1 and I won stage 2 overal despite a couple extra shots on steel and I had to adjust my shooting position as my foot was rolling over the fault line so I had to step back a few inches before engaging my second array.
Next stage was a 6 round speed shoot, 4 steel and a paper, and I had a miss on the paper! ugh. I called it on the right side of the A zone but it snuck into the black (along the A perf). fastest time of the day, but the mike killed it.
Continued the shoot-too-fast theme into the classifier, 03-11 el strong/week prez. Called a miss SHO and made it up on the following string..... then called a miss WHO. didn't bother making it up, figured I was tanked.... despite a miss and an extra-shot penalty, should still come in ~79%.
Trying to scrape up a positive from the match.... I think my draws were much more consistent and faster, the dryfire there may be paying off.....
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Going to Warsaw tomorrow!
-rvb
Holy crap did I suck today!!!!!!!!!! Wow!
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Some time on the rifle range w. dad today...
I worked on unusual positions....
Sitting/kneeling has always been my hardest... Kept them in about 7" which isn't too bad for me. Typically, I'd do better to stand than sit/kneel.
Worked on some low prone positions. I know there are 'tactical' names for them i can never rmember, but I call them the "shootin' under shit" positions.... Wanted to know where I hit now that I switched to a 100 yd zero.... Answer is 2-3/4" sideways and 4" down @ 100yd.
Shot a few groups.... Typical results.
Going to Warsaw tomorrow!
-rvb
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Couple pic updates on shooting dojo. Have to get the garage door on and that's it other than the cement floor.
Freakin awesome! When do the winter indoor matches start?
-rvb
Not this year! If I would ever do that it would be invitation only. Of course you and Corey would get an invite, most definitely. It would be awesome.
Can't wait!
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
No dry fire happening the last few nights... To tired and sore from doing flooring. Nt sure I could grip a gun right now... Bummed cause I was starting to hit it hard the last couple weeks....
-rvb
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Couple pic updates on shooting dojo. Have to get the garage door on and that's it other than the cement floor.
Freakin awesome! When do the winter indoor matches start?
-rvb
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Dad's getting familiar w. the gun...
No load development yet, as components are scarce, but here are some results w. some random 55gr "match" factory stuff... Right at .5" can't wait to see what it'll do after he finds the "right" load... Thanks for the advice on this one!
-rvb
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great discussion, fellas!
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
About 2 hrs of dry fire tonight. Did a couple hundred draws to headshots at 10 yds; tried to mimic what I saw in live fire w. the paper plates yesterday.
Trouble with consistency, especially th grip. When th grip went bad, trigger press went bad with it. At the faster paces (~1.0s), I estimate about 50% called hits. I'm going to work these headshot draws hard for a few weeks.
Reloads were great tonight.
Vision felt lazy... Too target focused and not getting crisp FS focus many times tonight.
-rvb
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rvb
in Range Diary
Got to the range today, about 325 rounds w. the g34 (and a few throught the 642)
Wanted to focus on draws. I put up a paper plate at 10 yds. I really struggled. 1.2-1.4s anything faster became iffy. Low was the typical problem.
Interestingly when I switched to full paper, the draw times reduced and the hits were almost all in the As. Doing 7yd 2R2s I was consistently seeing sub .90 draws! Why I couldn't do that on a plate, I don't know? Over aiming? 2R2s were consistently in the 2.2-2.3 range w. ~90 draws and ~1.1 reloads. Tried the plate again, same results... Suckage.
F'd up a 5yd dot drill... 42 lousy points, but it was fast! (66.x s). Consistently pushing low on the first shot, pushing myself on the draws too much.
It was a good practice session, learned some stuff about my shooting, but it was frustrating...
-rvb
CB45 Range Diary
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Posted
So the issue here is literally learning to pull the trigger faster?
That's not a problem I ever had. Maybe it was the 13 yrs studying classical piano (guess mom was right, it did become useful someday). I could bust 0.12s consistently early on. My problem always has been the visual patience to see what I need to before breaking the shot... It's amazing how much time a couple hundredths of a sec gives you to ensure an A, if you're willing to use it...
-rvb