coldchar

Sorry to throw cold water on the idea of resizing 9mm brass in 38 super dies but I must. Unfortunately on progressive presses there is the taper leading into the die which unfortunately pretty well conforms to the webbing at the base of the brass just forward of the extractor groove. As a result used brass expands under pressure at the webbing (especially if Glock brass) just enough that resizing it back to 9mm factor diameter let alone reducing it to 38 super diameter has prooved impossible. Trust me I have tried more than once.

You read my mind, yes I do want to use 9mm reloads which won't fit into the standard 38 super cylinder. You are also right I don't want to mess with the basic 38 super boring on the new cylinder as it would torpedo the value. \ There was an accuracy problem with the old cylinder due to a overside cylinder throat which won't go away with 9mm boring but it would be a really nice option for practise.

I recently had S&W replace my38 super cylinder (moon clips of course) and they returned the old cylinder. I am thinking of having a 9mm Luger chamber tool open up the back end so I can use something more than the factory 9mm loads the factory cylinder will already shoot.. Other than the long jump from for the bullet until it hits the forcing cone does anyone see a downside to this on an extra cylinder?

My understanding, if it came with moon clips you were good to go at any of the police matches. If not, well there are Comp III's. PPC's , well there are more customized guns than factory. PS: Talked to few PPC shooters and asked them the same question. Their response was they could not see why not but suggested you check the rule book to confirm. Again on most of the regular police matches, a production moon clipped gun is ok but not necessarily a conversion.

The Model 19 was developed when the 158 gr lead nose bullet was supreme. Actually substantially hotter than today. Then it pushed as hot as 1400 fps. The forcing cone problems developed with the 125 gr and 115 gr pocket rockets which came about after the Model 19 was developed. As long as you stay with the heavier,l soft nose lead bullets you should be fine. The 66 which is the stainless steel version seems to hold up to the hotter lighter loads better but the bottom line is these 125 gr loads is why the L frame was developed.

By the way, if you try plated bullets keep the speed down as low as possible. The copper plating strips really easily.. I had a Model 19 that stripped the plating off as it entered the forcing cone. Everybody standing to the side of me loved being sprayed by copper.

Regarding the shallow rifling, that will not work really well with cast bullets unless you go way oversize which distorts the bullet and messes up accuracy. The shallow rifling is designed for jadketed rounds and you might be able to get by with plated if they are slightly oversize say .001 such as traditionally used with cast bullets with deep rifling.

Regarding throat diameter question of a 38 S&W Super throat. I just recently had S&W put a new cylinder in my 686 38 super because the throat diameter was really excessive on one of the holes. I could drop a .358 wad cutter straight thru it. It resulted in a 50 fps difference in velocity and a regular keyhole (one per match that I am certain of). The new cylinder's throat holes are roughly .356-.3565 and it shoots like a dream as compared to the old cylinder. Keep in mind I am shooting a .355 barrel. If I was shooting one of the new .357 diameter barrels I might want the throads opened up.

Some revolver shooters use Clays in revolver loads, with lead, as it is just fast enough to get a burn before it leaves the chamber.

Just a follow up to this thread I started. I sent my 38 super back to S&W with a cover letter explaining the problem of the oversize throad on one of my cylinder holes. I have to admit I did my best to butter up the letter and to emphasize that I shot competitively and the cylinder was causing me problems at the worst times. I also mentioned the advice I received from this forum. My thanks to all. Anyway, I got the gun back with a brand new cylinder and no charge. They even returned the old cylinder. The cylinder I received was perfect, the holes were even polished without any visible tool marks. I could not be happier with both the gun and Smith & Wesson.

I do not know either you or your father, but please accept by condolences.

Thanks- I will take your advice

I am shooting Single stack, Icore Ltd, IDPA SSR and Steel. For ICORE I can use the Blade Tech DOH holster which is extremely comfortable. This holster puts the gun at basically the same height as my 012 holster I use for my steel longslide. Very comfortable draw height. Both SS and IDPA require a belt high mount (still using Blade Tech pouch holsters). Should I use the belt high event for all events to standardize the gun location or is it okay to use different gun heights? I index off the inside of my forearm and to date I have not had a problem, but I want to do things right over the long run. Not just because it is okay today but will causee problems later.

What bullet and how much clays are you using for the 160 gr 38 super- Open or ltd gun? coldchar, I use 2.8 grains of Clays behind a 160 grain Billy Bullet, (Molycoat). Thanks for the information.

What bullet and how much clays are you using for the 160 gr 38 super- Open or ltd gun?

I have the 6 shot 38 super so my comments may not apply. When I slugged the barrel it confirmed what I had read somewhere else about the nature of that barrel. The Barrel slugged at a TIGHT .355 with shallow and wide rifling. This rifling is more consistent with jacketed rounds as versus lead. I shoot with some law enforcement types that said their Department could never get their Sigs to shoot lead for the same reason. My understanding is the S&W did not have the right barrel diameter for these guns and shipped them to Europe for barrel installation. I don't believe Europeans shoot much lead. I have also read of good accuracy with a .357 bullet in the 6 shot 38 super, but I think that is the wrong solution to the problem and one is gambling with prematurely wearing out the barrel due to pressure and friction. I get decent accurancy with Ranier plated RN .356 151 grain RN behind 3.4-3.5 gr Titegroup. My gun is on its way back to S&W when I found one of my cylinder throats was way oversize. This appearently is a fairly common problem, so just for grins, you might want to mike your cylinder throats. I don't have any experience with their later 38 supers, and maybe, and hopefully, they switched to .357 barrels as the prior respondent said. That would fit American competition shooters better. My suggestion is you have the barrel slugged. How I handle slugging revolver barrels without taking it off is using 1/10th or 2/10th of a grain of Tight Group behind a bullet and shoot it at a safe back stop. It never clears the barrel and then I just tap it back out thru the forcing cone.

Thanks for everyone's input. I called S&W and they have a shipping label on the way to me now.

Thanks for the time to respond to me. -When you say it is a common problem I am assuming you are referring to the occasional Keyhole. I think I remembering reading that S&W sent these IDPA performance guns to Germany for barrel installation. The rifling does not seem as deep as my Barsto and other barrels and my guess is it is designed for jacketed rounds. I try to get by by using plated rounds but the jacket is pretty soft and my guess does not hang in the rifling very well. Is this consistent with your experience? What I can tell you is it is the Performance center six banger originally prepared for IDPA. I use the 151 gr Ranier RN .356 behind 3.4 to 3.5 gr Tightgroup. This normally gives me about 900-950 pfs in this gun.

From prior slugging I can tell you the barrel diameter is .355

I found on my performance cente 38 super that one of the cyclinder holes, forward end toward the barrel, is oversize as compared to all the other cyclinder holes. Bullets up to and including .358 diameter free fall all the way thru the cyclinder. Is this a problem? I occasionally have had keyhole rounds and am wondering if this could be the cause?

What bullet type/weight? He was asking about the 200 gr Ranier RN- the 200 gr Ranier SWC was exactly the same.

4.5 gr Clays 879, 4.4 Clays 874, 4.3 Clays 849, 4.2 Clays 834, 4.1 Clays 832, 4.0 Clays 788 4.6 Tightgroup 851, 4.5 tightgroup 835, 4.3 Tightgroup 787, 4.2 Tightgroup 778, 4.1 Tightgroup 752, 4.0 Tightgroup 742. These were in a 5" 1911 Kart Barrel. I use Tightgroup of small volume loads for minor. Clays for higher volume major loads. Tightgroup gets really weird when too much gets in the case. As I understand it, it is a nitro based powder requiring a lot of oxygen. When it runs out of air trying to make major it gets really erratic.

I have to agree, reluctantly, that Titegroup is temperature sensitive to a degree. I am on my 12th lb of Titegroup and shoot in Phoenix. I find about 50 pfs difference between summer and winter with the same loads.

I would certainly be interested in your SL Variant speedloaders and any holders for them for my Model 19. How many do you have and what do you want for them? My cell is 480-688-9673. Name is Jim.