mcb

Well I think I am going to be a happy camper. I got my 610 back from Smith and Wesson today and they did not have to replace the cylinder. YAH!!! They did replace the cylinder stop and stop spring and it appears they did some work on the end of the ejector rod and the detent the engages it. The cylinder is much easier to open than it was when I first got it. The work order paper sent with the gun specifies the two part they changed but does not indicated any other work being done. I will probably call them tomorrow and to see if they did anything else. The gun does appear to have been test fired I sent it to them after a very thorough cleaning. This make me happy they test fired it and all is good to go. To bad this past weekend was the last outdoor match, in the area, until next year. I guess I will have to go try some indoor stuff with it. A local range is doing PPC matches but they limited revolvers to 6 inch barrels, maybe if I ask real nice they let me give it a go for fun? None the less if it still shoot as good as it did before the accident I will be extremely please. Smith and Wesson did the work fast too. They received the gun last Monday and I had it back this evening exactly a week later. Now that's customer service. And unless they send the bill separately it appears they did the work for free? Does this sound right? There might be a bill coming and even if there is I will pay it happily given how fast and well the work was done. I give you guys one more update after a trip to the range to test it out one night this week. Thanks for all the replies guys. mcb

Hey, I did this at this weekends match. I usually check my magazines between stages. Got busy pasting and and jawboning and somehow had ended up with completely empty magazine in my first mag holder. Went for my first reloads inside a room clearing type stage and slapped a empty magazine in. Luckily I had made up a bad shot on an earlier target and so my reload came after the 11th round not the 10th round so I could see the empty magazine before i shut the slide and I went click on an empty chamber. Still cost me over 4 second before my brain kicked in to solve the problem. Got to be religious about post stage routines.

I had run all my ammo for that match through my chamber gauge and my reloads are stored in trays so I can check for consistent OAL. I also have a pretty tight crimp, trust me on that one I just pulled bullets on about 150 rounds and have about 250 more to go. After attempting to weigh and sort my remaining reloads by weight hopping to identify squibs or doubles failed to produce any reliable results I decided to pull bullets on all the ammo I presently had just to be safe. So far I have not found any squibs or doubles but I would not have felt good shooting that ammo after having two squibs and that unpleasant double charge. Starting fresh with a much renew attention to being focused on my reloading techniques will let me shoot worry free. Thanks guys, does anyone have a good place to by one of the Ed Brown cylinder releases? Hopefully I will be posting pictures of my repaired 610 soon. Thanks mcb

Well guys my 610 was dropped off at the UPS center this morning for quick trip back to S&W. Hopefully they can fix any damage and get it back to me soon. I was thinking that while S&W has it I might have them chamfer the new cylinder. The trigger is already pretty light and very smooth so what else would you guys suggest to have done to get it really ready for competition. Will S&W put an oversize cylinder release on or do I have to go to a third party for that part? Thanks mcb

Thanks for all the responses. I am definitely look into getting the new reloader for myself. As for the powder change you guys are probably correct its probably not necessary but the extra safety margin would make me feel good until I have the new setup going well and confident I am not bone heading anymore loads. Anyone have any idea how much its going to cost me if S&W has to put a new cylinder on my 610? Again thanks mcb

First up this was my fault and I have no dilutions of being able to blame this on anyone but myself. It still sucks hardcore! I was shooting my first match with my new (used but new to me) Smith and Wesson 610, at the Clang and Bang over by Pittsburg. On the first stage I was slow but I did OK. The second stage started badly with a squib. I cleared the squib and was allowed to start again. I reloaded after shooting six and the second round of the second moonclip went BOOOOM!!! I stop immediately knowing something was horribly wrong. The cylinder was locked up tight. Closer examination showed the fired cartridge was badly squished out between the cylinder and recoil face. I had to drive the cylinder open and then use a dowel rod to drive the case out of the cylinder. The case came out in two pieces, nearly three. (see links to pictures below) It was fairly obvious that I had had a double charge. I knew better than to use a powder that would allow a bullet to seat easily over two powder charges. When loading rifle cartridges I always chose powders that made double charges unlikely if not impossible. I went against that wisdom when I started loading 40 S&W and my 610 paid the price. I was loading 4.5 grain of Titegroup pushing 180 grain Berry bullet. So most likely I had 9 grain of Titegroup in that cartridge. Given the condition of the case and predictions from some internal ballistics software I have, I'm guessing chamber pressures were between 80,000-100,000 psi before the case blew I got home that evening and cleaned the gun real well. It appears the frame and barrel are OK but the charge hole in the cylinder that experience the double charge is stretched between 0.004-0.010 inches in diameter at the month. It will probably need replacement. I am awaiting a shipping label from S&W. I am going to ship the revolver back to S&W for repairs and a full safety check-up. I do however have to tip my hat to Smith and Wesson and that revolver. I shudder to think about what would have happened had that cartridge been fired in my XD-40. Despite all the badness I experienced no one was injured and for that I am VERY thankful, especially that those around me were not injured. I would have felt bad if I got hurt but worst if a bystander was hurt do to my mistake. I don't think I would have been that lucky if I was shooting my XD. So I am immediately switching powders to something that fills that case more to make double charges more difficult. I am going to start with some Vihtavuori N340. If you have a good suggestion I would appreciate hearing them. I am also going to get my own reloader. I have been using a friend’s Square Deal but I have asked my wife to get me a 650 with the high/low powder checker for a Christmas present. I have included a few links below to pictures of the aftermath. Feel free to give advice, point out lessons I have missed or even criticism. It was a bad experience but I was fortunate that no one was hurt and I want to make it a learning experience so feel free to learn me something. Thanks for listening mcb Loaded Cylinder Recoil Face Moonclip Case Case 2

Thanks guy, Since I am already using Berry's I am going to give a box of the 180 RN a try first but I am going to try a few others suggest here when I get some time. Thanks mcb

As usually lot of great info. Thanks guys. I will have to give a few of these bullet manufactures a try. How do you guys like lead bullet in you double action revolvers. I had bought a bunch of re-manufactured 38 Special 158 grain lead SWC for my Ruger Blackhawk 357. They were not real accurate and leaded up the cylinder end of the barrel real bad. I have had to use and old 410 brush to get the lead out. Is there ways to reduce the leading? Do the larger calibers like 40 and 45 have less of a problem with leading. I like the idea of using the less expensive lead bullets but given my previous experience in my Blackhawk I and apprehensive to try. Thanks again mcb

And that would be a problem how? You can shoot major if you want, just be scored minor. If production goes major/minor then minor will pretty much be pointless, kind of like shooting minor in L10, Limited and Open. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm... But at least with Limited if a shooter choose to shoot minor they can get a few more rounds in a legal magazine than you can with a major gun. If production does not have a magazine limit then there is no compensation for shooting major or even a larger caliber than 9mm loaded down to Minor PF since if it is all scored minor the 9mm minimizes recoil and maximizes capacity. I would think that with the rules of production it could be a division were minor might have the advantage over the major for some shooters and stages. Most 9mm Factory magazines hold 16+ rounds most 40 caliber factory magazines hold 12+ rounds. Seems like a fair trade off to me. Minor scoring with over 25% more ammunition in the magazine. I think production could make minor competitive with major. mcb

Sorry guys I did not realize the picture link in my very first post were not working. I figured it out when I got my web site report that showed the file failures. I have fixed the links to the pictures. Sorry about that mcb

I'm looking for a good bullet to load for my Smith and Wesson 610. I want a round nose or similar shaped bullet, no flat points. The only one I can find is Berry's plated and the heaviest they sell is 165 grains. I would like to find a round nose 180 or possible a 200 grain bullet. I have also been having problems with the plating coming off Berry's in my XD so I am switching to Montana Gold 180gr CMJ bullets for my XD but I need a round nose for my 610. I'm not having much luck so any suggestion for a good bullet to reload for my 610 would be greatly appreciated. Thanks mcb

Why should the limit be lifted? Would that not make it basicly the 9mm division? mcb

This is pretty much a dead horse so let's get off or move where it does not apply. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Since I really haven't had a change to thump this particular carcass I will add a thump or two. I would be all for removing the capacity limit IF they also implemented Minor/Major scoring, otherwise I think 9mm would drowned production even more than it already does. That said I like the 10 round limit, as I get to reload more often (I'm serious I like reloading) hence the reason I shoot L-10 and soon to be shooting revolver. Rambling mcb

Well it turned out I didn't have to worry about the moonclips. My Dillon order was there when I got home and there was 10 moonclips in the order along with two 'shoot the moon' moonclip holders. As for the 610 all I can say is WOW. The trigger is really smooth and the gun just seemed to shoot were I pointed it. Even with 10mm Hydro-Shoks the recoil was very controllable. With my 40S&W reloads that I have been using in my XD-40 Tactical for L-10 the gun shoot very smooth and still had good accuracy. The two targets below are shot with my 180 grain Berry's TC bullets loaded over 4.5 grains of Titegroup, Federal Match Primers. The first target was shot at twenty-five feet, slow fire, double action The second target was shot at fifty feet, slow fire, double action. In all I put about 150 rounds of 40S&W and about 60 rounda of 10mm through it. It ran flawlessly and seemed to shoot all the various ammo I feed it very well. To say the lest I am very please with my new gun. Know I have to start working on those reloads, moonclips are not quite as easy as my XD magazines, not yet at least. Thanks again for all the help. I am really looking forward to shoot some competitions with it. mcb

Thanks Jerry V, I was pretty sure it would be OK but its always good to double check. Thanks for the quick reply. mcb

Moderately Dumb question to ensue. Is it OK to shoot 10mm Auto in the 610 without moonclips? I know you need the moonclips to shoot the 40S&W in it since there is nothing for it to headspace against. My intuition is that it is safe to shoot the 610 using 10mm Auto without moonclips but I figured it would not hurt to ask to make sure. I realize that I will have manually pick out the empty cases since the ejector won't work without the moonclips but having this 610 in the gun cabinet having not gotten to shoot it yet is killing me. I have some free time this evening and I figured I could at least put a box of 10mm thru it while I wait for my Moonclips to arrive from Ranch. A quick reply would be good since I will be leaving for the range in about 3 hours. Thanks a bunch mcb

Edit to add time frame: By the end of next year's outdoor season I would like to accomplish the following: First and for most shoot safe and smart. Have fun! Make B in Limited-10 Make C in Revolver Shoot at the Area-5 regional match and not come in DFL. mcb

Wow! very cool puzzle. I got it on the first try but will less then 30 seconds left. I love puzzles like that. Thanks mcb

Thanks guys for all the great suggestions. I ordered some moonclips from Ranch Products this morning. They are a fellow Ohio company so I thought I would give them my business per the recommendations here. I also order a set of shoot the moon clip holder from Dillon (I also needed some reloading stuff too). At present I am using Berry's 180 RS in my XD-40. Hopefully the moonclip will get here by this weekend and I can give'em a try in my 610. Have any of you tried the Twin Moon Clip holders that TK Custom carries? They look pretty cool but was not sure how well they would work. Thanks a bunch mcb

Well the local Gander Mountain found me a fairly nice Smith and Wesson 610 with a 6.5 inch barrel. I was very surprised they were able to find one, so I snatched it up. I was going to get a new 625 but I like the idea of using a 610 since I can use the 40 S&W I am already reloading for my XD-40 in a S&W 610. Now what I really need is to get the rest of the gear I will need. I would love to hear suggestions for the best moon clips (none came with the gun), moon clip belt holders, and a good holster to create a good USPSA setup. Any other suggestions for gear, tweaks and other stuff would be great too. I am really looking forward to giving this a try at a match but I have to get the rest of the proper gear and some practice in. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. A few pictures of my new 610 Right Left Thanks mcb

I saw it this weekend and I would have to say its the best Sci-Fi Movie I have seen since Aliens. mcb

Beautiful XD there Ray. I am going to have to send mine of to Rich this winter and get a trigger job done on it. How do you like those sights? I have gotten use to the fixed factory but the white dots are starting to get dirty and harder to see. mcb

{in a William Shattner Voice} Try it before you buy it? Brilliant! {Shattner off} Yah I would love to give your XD a try when you get it. The would be great! Thanks for the offer. mcb

Can you discribe the difference between SA and CC's trigger jobs? Which did you like best? I'm thinking about getting one done on my XD-40 this winter for next season. I did shoot a 60 round stage with my XD and it was a blast. 6 reloads on the clock, I loved it! mcb

I had mine tested here recently and was a 9mcg/dl and was also told that a safe range was 0-19 mcg/dl. I will hopefully get that down some more by next year. mcb