Clay1

The "no guide rods" in IDPA is not correct. All Glocks need a guide rod Seriously this is from page 20 of the IDPA rulebook under SSP: “Guide rods made of a material different from the factory part it replaces." are under "Excluded modifications. On page 22 of the IDPA rulebook under Permitted modifications to ESP: "11. Full length guide rod manufactured of material that is no heavier than common steel. So I run a stock guide rod and spring in my personal G34 for SSP and the G34 that I run in ESP has this guide rod from Novak's Handgunner Outlet: http://store.novakshandgunneroutlet.com/nh...teel-guide.html I run this Magwelll: http://www.jprifles.com/1.5.3.4.php It fits in the IDPA box. Since IDPA has this requirement for ESP: "D. Fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾” x 6” x 1 5/8.” with an empty magazine inserted." I run the Ralph S. trigger kit in my gun and while it measures 2.25 pounds in my G34 when measured from the tip of the trigger next to the trigger guard, when I measure my trigger weight from the center of the trigger as the proposed 2008 USPSA rules require, it hits consistently at 3.5 pounds, so I am fine there. I run the Dawson’s, but would consider the Sevigney sights as a good alternative: http://www.gunracing.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi...007A1B0000001B1 Buy 10,000 rounds of ammo to get started, a timer, some targets and pasters and a membership in a club with better shooters than you and go! Hope that this helps, Rick

Basically, if it's a .45 ACP bottomfeeder and it fits in the box and makes weight, it can be shot in CDP. That is one of the things that is nice about IDPA is that it is not gun specific. In other words more than 1911 can play. Rick

Read post number 10 again in this thread. Rick

You have to remember I am an OLD GUY and I forget things, but I think that was the name. They still play that or would that end up like Matt's reference and you would get kicked out of school these days? Rick

I forget the name of the game that we played in college, but we would get a group of guys together from a dorm floor and make a list and exchange names. When you drew someones name you had to kill them with a squirt gun. Class rooms were off limits, but everywhere else was fair game. I remember waiting for this guy to get out of class. Our eyes met outside of the class room and the firefight was on. Back then they thought we were nuts. These days they might lock your ass up. I worked in the caffateria and carried my pistol to work. More than one firefight in the lunch room. I hate to say it, but it was truly an adrenaline rush. You were paranoid of getting hit all of the time. I finished one of those rounds in second place. Ah, the good ole' days. Rick

I agree about practicing low key. When you turn your weapon over to the campus police do they give you a receipt for it? Sorry man, but that's like the turning over your guns to Doyle for safe keeping - makes the hair on the back of my head stand up - creepy. I know that you are trying to do things the right way, but I would get some kind of paper that says that they have my property. Note: Doyle is our lovely anti-gun govenor for those not familiar with the wonderful world of Wis. One of two states that has no concealed carry permit since our gov vetoed the passed legislation - TWICE! Rick

To tear down that Walther is not an easy thing. I teach a basic pistol class and just hate seeing those things show up because they always want me to take it apart and they are just ugly. Whatever you buy, have them show you how to tear it apart so you know what you are getting yourself into. I'm surprised no one has recomended thee 22 target pistol - S&W 41. You really didn't say what your purpose was. The S&W 41 ruled, the High Standards were next and while the Rugers are very dependable they just never had the triggers to compete with the other two. I own a High Standard myself. I haven't shot one of the Buckmarks but have heard good things. If you want it to help with your practical shooting or to work on flinch related problems, I think that the conversion will be better for your application than a target gun. Rick

Perhaps they can use some sort of tape to depress the trigger safety bar so that it is disengaged and then weigh the trigger? I was thinking along the same lines but using some kind of small rubber band that would depress the trigger safety. Again, I hope that the change doesn't go through. Rick The rubber bands used for braces would probably work great. My kid has those, I should probably appropriate some for shooting. I'm still against the trigger pull rule but I took my Glock trigger and checked the weight a couple of times this weekend on the same scale that I use for Rimfire silhouette shooting and feel confident that it is very accurate. I usually check the weight of my Glock triggers on the very tip of the trigger very close to the trigger guard. It was as before and broke at 2 1/4 pounds. I decided to see how much of a difference it would make if you measured from the center of the trigger as in the proposed rules. My trigger now broke at a consistant 3.5 pounds. The new rules won't effect my set up but I am still against it. When you measure your trigger pull do it per the new regs and not how you have done it in the past is my comment. Rick

It happens to the very best of us when we skim a thread too fast. If you really want an answer call IDPA up: (870) 545-3886. If you send them an email you might never get an answer Rick

Note, from my previous post I said "IF" it has a long dust cover and is single action there isn't a division that it would be legal in. Rick

If the gun has a full length dust cover it can't shoot in CDP either. From Page 24 of the rule book under CDP Exclusions: "EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list): 1. Full length dust covers of carbon or stainless steel." If it is single action and has a full length dust cover, it can't be used in any IDPA DIVISION. This stops many of the S_I guns from competing in IDPA matches. Rick

This is an older link, but Brian had some words of wisdom in this thread. Spook had a couple of threads along this same topic about a year ago as well. I even exchanged some ideas with him directly. I see he is posting again. The point is when you take a break, it doesn't mean that you are done, you are just taking a break. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=9749&st=25 For me, it just wasn't fun anymore, I put too much pressure on myself to do well. I beat myself up when I didn't. I didn't like going to the matches because I thought with all of the effort that I put in the game I should be at a different level in my shooting. My expectations and reality were not the same and this caused my discomfort playing the game. It was never someone else giving me any grief that I should be shooting at this level or that, it was all internal. Like I said, it wasn't fun for me any more and shooting the matches become a source of stress in my life not relief from stress. So for ME, the break was a good thing. Rick

This is cut and paste from page 21 of the rulebook: "Pistols approved for SSP may also be used in ESP and CDP depending upon caliber, even if the pistol in question has a fulllength dust cover. However, should the pistol in question have a modification that removes it from SSP, it must meet all other division criteria for ESP or CDP, again depending upon caliber." So if it doesn't meet the criteria for SSP it can't be used if it has a full length dust cover is right. I think the gun is single action and that will knock it out. Rick I won't be legal in ESP either because of the full length dust cover. This is cut and paste from excluded modifications to ESP on page 22 of the rulebook: "EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list): 1. Full length dust covers of carbon or stainless steel." Rick

Tim they make a 5186 for the XD. Check out the link: http://pistolgear.com/products.php?id=7 This is a nice belt holster from Comp-Tac that should work for both IDPA and USPSA. http://www.comp-tac.com/index.html Rick

Something to consider is the ability to be a cross over shooter if you want. I know some won't appreciate the comments but if you ever wanted to shoot IDPA the DOH won't be legal there. There are some nice holsters that are still fast that you can do both with and keep your options open for the future. Blade Tech makes some other holsters that will work for both games. Comp-Tac also makes some very nice ones. I would stay with Kydex instead of something like leather since you won't be giving anything up in the speed department. Look at the holster that Robbie is Shooting from Safariland: http://www.holsters.com/concealment/holsters/model5182.asp I shoot a Comp-Tac locking paddle. That I had Comp-Tac modify for IDPA and I shoot the same holster in Production in USPSA. Rick

An inexpensive deal on a holster and mag pouches is this one from Blade-Tech but it is not Kydex: http://www.blade-tech.com/Combo-Pak-Special-pr-897.html Rick

Clay, please accept my apologies . I thought that was the "sarcasm" emoticon. It's been said before, but tone is often misinterpreted on these boards, and I'm guilty this time. Thanks for not raking me over the coals for me being defensive too quickly. That was very nice of you. As a guy that posts once in a while on other gun forums, one of the things that I appreciate about this board the most is how calmly most of us discuss our differences. Without naming other forums you might have experienced that at other places yourself. I can see how the board wants to try and make things equal in their eyes, but whenever they change something it effects someone. I see many changes happening this time around. More so than normal. Rick

You guys made me laugh. Thanks Merlin for the list. I know someone said have some guy tell him. Bluntly I would prefer a woman told me and would secretly puff up and say "she wants me and she was looking at my croch". I would not prefer to say this about the guy next to me. I would be wondering why he was looking at my croch. In other words girls - go for it, I think he will take it as a compliment and move forward. Rick

Single stack had it right. That guy with the sunglasses means cool. On different gun forums you might very well be justified in being defensive, but one of the things that you will see on these boards vs. others is that most of us try to argue from a rational point of view and try to keep slander and nasty comments that are directed at people personally out of our posts. I thought that you did a good job of that by pointing out why you felt the way that you do and I appreciated that approach and so the cool comment. On the morally effected point, I could have used another word I guess. I was trying to get at the point that I was doing nothing wrong. I was within the rules of this "GAME" I play to win and make no apology for it. Now they want to tell me something like, I was going against the pricipals of the game - like I was trying to cheat somehow. I take this rule change as an attack on my character. I did nothing wrong by playing by the rules. I remember Michael Voight in one issue of "Front Sight" within the last year speaking about how they make decision on rules and one of his tenants of making a decision is to make it so that there is some stability to the rules. I find these new proposals don't meet that requirement in my own mind and feel let down. I feel that if anyone should have voted to keep the rules the way they are now MV would have been the man. The vote results that I saw did not find that to be the case. Rick

Some Nice comments LeoZ. Logically thought out and rationally explained. I'll be the first to tell you that I understand production is for DA firearms and not single action weapons. I believe that the Glock format is a production gun. I'll also tell you that I chose the Glock action over the Beretta because I thought it had a competitive advantage. I then selected the G34 for a competitive advantage. I then had my trigger worked for a competitive advantage. I bought a kydex holster and mag pouches for a competitive advantage. I did all of these things and they were legal. I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG OR ILLEGAL. Now they want to change the rules. My biggest problem with this is rules stability. The boys that have been playing this game much longer than I, have seen their equipment in the past become illegal. This hits you financially and morally. You would think that people would be for rules stability. Again this is the biggest problem that I have with the current changes. A rules clarification is one thing to add in a new rule book. But when you take guns that are competiting legally in a division now and then say that now they can't - that bothers me. Rick

Perhaps they can use some sort of tape to depress the trigger safety bar so that it is disengaged and then weigh the trigger? I was thinking along the same lines but using some kind of small rubber band that would depress the trigger safety. Again, I hope that the change doesn't go through. Rick

Not that I have an answer, but what was your question. The above that I cut and pasted from the rule book speaks to using a trigger weight or scale. The NRA makes a trigger weight like this one from Brownells: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/Pro...R+WEIGHT+SYSTEM It said that you could also use a different scale. I shoot rimfire silhouette and the trigger scale as above is used at matches. The weight requirement in my division for rimfire silhouette is 2 pounds and the Anschutz that I shoot is set at 18 oz so that I don't run into any problems at different clubs. The one concern that I have is that a Glock trigger is difficult to measure from the center of the trigger in that the center will not depress the trigger safety that is a fundamental part of the Glock trigger group. I'd be interersted to hear your original question. Rick

This is cut and paste from the proposed rules: "APPENDIX F2 Trigger Pull Testing Procedure When a minimum trigger pull is required by a Division, handguns will be tested as follows: 1. The unloaded handgun will be prepared as if the handgun is ready to fire a double action shot; 2. The trigger weight or scale will be attached as closely as possible to the center of the trigger face; 3. The trigger of the handgun must either: (a) Raise and hold a 3-lb (1.36 kg) weight when the muzzle of the handgun is pointed vertically skywards and the handgun is gently raised, or ( Register not less than 3-lb (1.36 kg) on a scale using the procedure specified by the Range Master; 4. One of the above tests will be conducted a maximum of 3 times; 5. If the hammer or striker does not fall on any 1 of the 3 attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers not less than 3-lb (1.36 kg) in 3( above, the handgun has passed the test. 6. If the hammer or striker falls on all three (3) attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers less than 3- lb (1.36 kg) in 3( above, the handgun has failed the test and Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply." In other words the 3 pound thing is for the first shot only so if your tricked out DA can shoot the first shot at 5.5 pounds and the single actions shots are at 1.5 pounds you are still OK. If you are a Glock shooter or a XD shooter you are stuck at the 3 pound or heavier for all shots. I know that this is a double action division, but the Glocks and XDs have been here all along. I've said this before and it fits on this thread very well. I think that this ruling is a direct result of the original Vanek trigger modification and the ruling that took place. Most if not all of those people on the BOD do not shoot production and I think that this mod surprised them. It is a Billy Wilson type of thing of trying to get back to what the purpose of the division was suppose to be. the major problem that I have with it, centers around stability of the rules. I'm not in favor of the 3 pound trigger rule. I shoot a Ralph S. trigger in my G34 and really don't want to change everything around to go back to 3 pounds. Rick Note: when I did the cut and paste from the rulebook whatever punctuation was used in the rulebook this bulletin board software put the smiley faces in there. They obviously weren't there in the rulebook. The punctuation is suppose to be a "B" in parentheses.

The 5.7 would be poking holes in backstops indoors. Damn little thin goes through metal very well. Rick

This is cut and paste from the IDPA current rule book on CDP: "4. Custom Defensive Pistol Division (CDP) Handguns permitted for use in this division must: A. Be semi-automatic. B. Be .45 ACP caliber. 23 C. Have a maximum unloaded weight of 41 oz., including an empty magazine. D. Fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾” x 6” x 1 5/8” with an empty magazine inserted. E. Be loaded to the division capacity of eight (8) rounds in the magazine plus one (1) round in the chamber. Should division capacity not be achievable because of lower magazine capacity, load should be to maximum mechanical capacity of magazine plus one (1) round in the chamber. Competitors must use the same capacity magazines through out the competition (Example: if you start with a 7 round magazine, you must use that capacity magazine throughout the match). High capacity pistols can be used as long as the pistol meets ALL division criteria. Pistols approved for SSP may also be used in ESP and CDP depending upon caliber, even if the pistol in question has a fulllength dust cover. However, should the pistol in question have a modification that removes it from SSP, it must meet all other division criteria for ESP or CDP, again depending upon caliber. PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list): 1. Sights to another notch and post type (see “sights” in glossary for further information). 2. Grips (no weighted grips; see “weighted grips” in glossary for further details). 3. Internal accuracy work (includes: replacement of the barrel with one of factory configuration, the use of Accu-Rails, the use of Briley Bushings). 4. Factory installed cone style barrels are permitted on pistols with a barrel length of 4.2” or less. 5. Internal reliability work. 6. Checker frontstrap and backstrap. 7. Checker or square and checker trigger guard. 8. Cosmetic checkering/serrating. 24 9. Extended thumb (may be ambidextrous) and Beavertail grip safeties. 10. Extended magazine release (button may not be oversize in diameter or protrude more than .2” out from the frame). 11. Full length guide rod manufactured of material that is no heavier than common steel. 12. Hammer and other trigger action parts to enhance trigger pull (includes over travel stop). 13. Beveled magazine well and add-on well extensions. 14. Custom finishes. EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list): 1. Full length dust covers of carbon or stainless steel. 2. Oversize diameter magazine release buttons. 3. Trigger shoes. 4. Slide lightening (see “slide, lightening” in glossary for further information). 5. Refer to Appendix ONE-A. Firearms-Non-IDPA-Legal Modifications." This is also cut and paste from the rulebook: "Stability of Firearm Criteria Rule This rule applies to firearms only; specifically any rule change that would disallow a firearm previously approved for IDPA competition. Firearm criteria changes will only be reviewed every two (2) years. Any firearm criteria changes will go into effect twelve (12) months after approval." Hope that this helps, Rick