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Posts posted by IHAVEGAS

  1. 47 minutes ago, IVC said:

    So, does a partial hit on a barrel with significant deflection, in your opinion, count for score on the target(s) down-range? 


    A different way to consider the question.


    If a target is pulled due to a scoring question, does the person making the final call on the target need to look at anything besides the target? 

  2. 1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

    I shoot both idpa and uspsa with regularity


    I would be 100% USPSA, but IDPA is what the two closest clubs shoot so I do both also.


    I wish IDPA would do something about reloading rules, wasting perfectly good bullets into a berm so you can reload the fast way makes me crazy. 

  3. 23 minutes ago, zzt said:

    If you are going to go to all that trouble, why not test bullet shapes as well?


    I think it is a good idea.


    You can convince yourself that a wad cutter or truncated cone might "stick" to steel a little better and you can convince yourself that a round bullet would deform to the same shape all lead bullets take against the steel so it would not make any measurable difference. 

  4. 12 hours ago, zzt said:

    We started testing on pins, but quickly moved to poppers.  We carefully set the poppers so that a legal hit in the circular portion would drop the popper.  All ammo dropped the popper as long as it made minor.  The differences were in the speed the popper dropped, and how far off angle you could be  and still have it drop.  The further off angle you were the safer you were with the heavier bullets.  I'm still surprised a 132 PF 124 9mm cannot reliable drop a popper when shot from 45 degrees when hit in the round.



    Good stuff.

    One day I would like to:

    1. Gather some representative ammo.

    2. Borrow a well built (consistent) popper from the local club.

    3. Prepare a surface the popper sits on to prevent the popper shifting calibration during testing, maybe the popper sits on a 4x8 plywood sheet and spikes are driven through popper and holes drilled in plywood. 

    4. Buy some 1" diameter stick on target circles.

    5. Set popper at minimum safe distance from the bench where you will be shooting, say 8 yards. 

    6. Determine the minimum elevation of the target circles for the popper to fall with each type of ammo tested, circles to be placed in horizontal center of popper. 

  5. 57 minutes ago, Daedalus47 said:

    I’ll still probably end up with a Shadow at some point. Never thought I’d enjoy the SP-01 as much as I do.


    Shadow 2 is different than a well tuned SP-01 but not everyone agrees which of the two they prefer. I do not know of any criteria beyond personal preference that would suggest one is better than the other. 

  6. 2 minutes ago, Dr. Phil said:

    Or buy the Ruger and share in all of the new problems.


    One thing I forgot.

    My 929 needed a new crane - 4 month repair time from S&W, impossible to find out what was going on, one day it just showed up.

    My SGP100 needed a new pawl - 8 days and done, email notifications "received" - "in process" - "ship notification". 


    No matter what you buy be prepared to send it back before you can rely on it, if you have modified it in the meantime be prepared to make it like oem or there may be issues. I pray that I never need to deal with S&W again. 

  7. 1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

    don't really do well tinkering with things so if there's a plug and play option that's reliable I will absolutely go that route vs. tinkering with things to get them to work.  I don't want to screw around with reloading anything and while I'm not set on the 150's, I will be using some type of factory ammo.


    Might be better off looking at 38/357. If I were you I would start a plug and play thread. The 929's seem to be very hit and miss, the SGP100 in 9mm is brand new for practical purposes, finding 9mm ammo that is hot enough to make above 125 pf in a wheel gun may put you into self defense loads. 


    When you add all costs (moon clips + belt/holster/clip holders/clip tools/tuning) and consider the limited market for resale, losing a "couple undo" might be very optimistic. 

  8. Still trying to find something my SGP 100 likes, tough to do when you can not buy bullets, preliminary indication is that it wants something lighter than what I have (SNS coated, 160's .358 and 147's .356).


    My 929 leaded terribly with 0.356 coated. Threw them nicely for 50-100 rounds and then they started going awry. 


    I do not think you will have a safe bet with either choice, maybe, maybe not. Anxious to see what other folks tell you regarding what the SGP likes. 

  9. 1 hour ago, nasty618 said:

    I mean... Everything! I hope you're not suggesting that we should treat revolver shooters with the same level of respect and dignity as Open shooters.  


    I wonder how long open will continue to exist now that we have welfare open for the special needs but frugal and rifle for the no self respect at all crowd? 



  10. 7 hours ago, Stdz said:

    SP01 would be a good budget choice. Just don't try making it into a S2. 


    Many like the looks and feel of the S2, and the oem trigger will be good enough for many, beyond that I can not see any advantage to one over the other. The SP01 firing pin block is noticeable but if you make it right (polish and lighter spring) it still allows for an excellent trigger. On both guns the triggers and accuracy can be excellent, I ended up doing the same trigger work to the S2 that I did to my other CZ's but I am overly fussy. 


    Disadvantage to no firing pin block is that if you make the normal mods (extended firing pin, reduced weight firing pin spring) and reload with deep seated federal primers and flub the draw the gun can go off when it hits the ground. Happened to me with a 75. 





  11. 23 minutes ago, Sarge said:

    Saw a past National Open Champion sir in the shade and not lift a finger earlier this year. Most are lazy but a few feel entitled as well.


    If iron sights are too much work, and recoil is too much work, and changing mags twice a stage is too exhausting to even  think about, then it makes sense that the orthopedic gun crowd would not be big on pasting. 




  12. Old thread, but I have a similar question.


    Thinking about either a LP or Stock 1 for IDPA SSP.


    Anyone know of any rules issues?


    In particular, am wondering about hammers, have always used the extreme hammer in my USPSA Tanfo's, am told that would be a no no for SSP as it is an externally visible mod. Anyone have any insights? If the extreme hammer is a no no has anyone had good luck getting the trigger right with the oem hammer? 


    Last thing, installing a PD disco would make the gun visibly different due to the trigger being further back when the hammer is cocked, is that a rules issue?



  13. 1 hour ago, M1A4ME said:

    That is the one recommended, over and over, on the CZ Forum.  Must work pretty well.


    I have installed them in 4 guns and liked the result each time.


    I bought them 10 at a time, I hate worrying about itty bitty springs under pressure getting lost. 

  14. 11 hours ago, Pnut said:

    That is interesting, because everyone complains the 929 is a pain to develop a load for due to the cylinder. I have to shoot .358 out of my 929. 


    I think you mean the barrel rather than the cylinder. I shoot .358's in my 929 also & a friend sent me the paragraphs below, excess wear due to oversized bullets is claimed in the last paragraph. I do not know if we are screwing up the 929's by running 0.358's. Others comments would be very welcome. 


    I just finished some very unscientific testing with my 929 & SGP100, with 0.356's on both guns it is easy to push the bullet through the throats of the cylinders with a little finger pressure (possibly if both guns were not dirty from a range trip the 0.356's might have dropped through), with 0.358's you are not going to get through the cylinders with just finger pressure, it seems like they go in the SGP100 a smidgen farther before being stopped. 






    Retired Moderator & Gunsmith
    Joined Aug 31, 2006
    16,101 Posts 
    Endshake and B/C gap are two totally different animals, but they are related. As Seneca stated, endshake is the fore/aft movement of the cylinder. B/C gap is the distance from the cylinder face to the rear of the barrel when the cylinder is held to the rear (measrued with an automotive type "gap gauge"). If endshake becomes excessive, bad things can happen ... such as misfires from excessive headspace, dramatic loss of velocity, excessive "gap spitting", accelerated top strap flame cutting, or worse yet ... in extreme cases the cylinder can jump out of lockup and result in a very dangerous situation.

    Here's what happens when a round is fired: the outside surface of the bullet contacts the cylinder's throat and pushes the cylinder forward until it stops when the face of the internal crane tube contacts the bearing surface inside the cylinder's center hole. When the base of the bullet crosses the B/C gap, chamber pressure thrusts the cylinder to the rear until the ratchet column strikes the recoil shield. This "jack hammer" effect will eventually cause endshake to increase. Once endshake exceeds .005" the cylinder will develop more momentum as it moves fore/aft and the jack hammer effect will accelerate wear even more.

    B/C gap specs for nearly all revolvers is .006" +or- .002" (.004~.008"). Endshake always increases the B/C gap at the most critical point in bullet travel ... when the base of the bullet is flush with the rear of the barrel's forcing cone. This will cause more pressure loss, lower muzzle velocity, more "gap spitting", and more top strap flame cutting. Endshake specs depend on the brand and model .... S&W revolvers are way more sensitive to endshake so their specs are tighter ..... typically from zero to .003". Ruger DAs have a more massive crane tube so they aren't as prone to wear. As noted above, a Ruger DA revolver should have no less than .002" of endshake and no more than .005". When a new revolver leaves the factory within these specs, chances are it will last for many many thousands of rounds. 

    There are four areas of "wear" that affect endshake .... the end of the yoke tube will peen, making it slightly shorter, the bearing surface inside the cylinder's center hole will develop a "channel" which allows the yoke tube to seat too deep, the ratchet column will peen and make it shorter, or the recoil shield will develop a divot that allows the cylinder to move back too far. Generally, in a well used DA revolver, all four of the wear areas will be affected and add to the total endshake. The way you measure endshake is to wedge the cylinder to the rear and measure the B/C gap. Next you wedge the cylinder to the front and measure the B/C gap again. The difference in the two measurements will be total endshake. In a Ruger DA revolver, if endshake is too tight (under .002") the cylinder will bind, causing DA trigger pull to be harsh. After a box or two of ammo has been fired, endshake will usually open up a few thousandths and make the cylinder rotate easier. S&Ws work different ... their max endshake is only .001" different than a Ruger's minimum, so ... don't try to apply one gun's specs to a different brand.

    Repairing endshake: First you have to do some trouble shooting to find out where the problem(s) may be. If the cylinder moves too far forward where the B/C gap is less than .004", it's either a peened yoke tube face or a channel cut inside the cylinder's center hole bearing surface ... maybe both. This condition is repairable. Next is to measure headspace. This is done by inserting a "virgin" case into a chamber and aligning the chamber with the firing pin hole. Again, use a gap gauge to measure the minimum and maximum distance between the case head and recoil shield by holding the cylinder to the front and again by holding the cylinder to the rear. A typical DA revolver will have a headspace of .008" +or- .002". If headspace is under .006", it means the ratchet column has worn or the recoil shield has a divot .. or both.

    There's virtually nothing you can do to repair a frame when a divot develops in the recoil shield ... short of replacing the frame. Likewise with the ratchet column on the cylinder ... short of replacing the cylinder, there's no fix. Shims between the ratchet column and the frame (recoil shield) won't work because the hand that rotates the cylinder won't be able to advance the ratchets. Fortunately, these two conditions seldom are the sole source of excessive endshake.

    When the yoke tube wears or a channel is cut inside the center hole bearing surface (the most common cause), there is a way to repair the gun. First you must use a rotary grinder bit to "dress" the inside bearing surface and remove the channel. After the channel in the bearing surface has been removed, it's just a matter of installing endshake bearings, which are nothing more than very thin washers (.002" thick). Endshake bearings can be stacked to bring endshake back into spec. Installing endshake bearings without removing the channel usually doesn't work ... the first time you fire the gun, the thin washers will form into the channel and bind up cylinder rotation. Likewise, if you use endshake bearings to compensate for ratchet column or recoil shield wear, you will end up with a headspace that is too tight. A slightly thicker case rim or a slightly "proud" primer will bind up cylinder rotation.

    Preventing endshake: There are two primary causes of endshake wear .... shooting hot loads and shooting bullets that are oversized. As an example .... 10,000 rounds of 38 Specials will cause less endshake wear than just 500 rounds of 357 Mags. So .... shoot 38 Specials for practice and shoot 357 Magnums sparingly. Check your cylinder throats ... if they are too tight to allow a bullet to pass through with just finger pressure, the throats are too tight or your bullets are too fat. As noted above, the cylinder slams forward when the circumference of the bullet contacts the throat. If the bullet is larger than the throat, it causes the cylinder to be forced forward much harder than with a properly sized bullet. In the thousands of revolvers I have worked on in my gunsmithing career ... I've found without exception ... tight cylinder throats or oversized bullets always result in excessive endshake wear. There's absolutely no advantage with shooting bullets that are larger than the throats because they will get sized down as they pass through.
  15. On 8/2/2020 at 5:58 PM, Phoenix1977 said:

    Hello guys,

    I’m at the point of ordering a Les Baer 1911 in .45 ACP. Should I spend the extra money for the 50 yards accuracy guarantee, or is it overkill?

    I do shoot competition, but not beyond 25 yards.


    I think it is overkill, but it still might be worth it to you.


    If the gun brings more pride of ownership, and/or if you get a kick out of shooting the best groups you are capable of and/or if you like to have one gun where you feel like group size is all about how you are shooting, the extra $300 might make sense. 

  16. 17 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

    Small hands prefer the traditional 75-series grip, and I’ve known several junior and youth shooters who universally love that smaller grip.


    Bigger hands? The SP01 is a bit cramped and the Tanfoglio-sized grip of the Shadow 2 is a much better fit. I certainly fall into this group.


    Also? Production Ms and GMs tend to be 16-45 year old males who have larger hands, and they set the trend other guys follow.



    I'm 6'1 and I think my hands are about average for a person of that height.


    Shadow 2 did not fit me and it felt like it wanted to duck hunt. SPO1 and 75's feel good to me, Tanfo's a little better.


    I think it is just a personal thing. 

  17. 35 minutes ago, RJH said:

    Well, I've done it and it worked. I don't really care what a writer for the major gun rag said.


    I'd like to read the article and know whether the author is a real guru or somebody who needed to fill a couple pages with something before the cut off date for the next issue. 


    In general it seems unreliable to extrapolate results too far (this happened with this particular gun/loads so it must be universal?). The pressure thing is interesting to think about, does using a copper bullet loaded to target load velocities for clean out create as much or more pressure than firing a +P self defense load with a clean barrel? 

  18. 5 minutes ago, Pnut said:

    I am going to start cutting my own moonclips for a 929, but also want to make some for the GP100.


    For what it is worth, I'm wondering if the majority will move toward having their 9mm SuperGP100 cylinders honed out to match the larger 929 dimensions?


    Seems like having a tighter than needed cylinder bore will not be a great thing for reloading consistency during a match (when cylinders are not clean and pristine). 

  19. On 8/2/2020 at 9:14 AM, PhotoRecon said:

    Based on testing with a borescope and an Outers Foul Out bore cleaner we have yet to find a Hi Tek or proprietary  polymer coated lead bullet that doesn't have some degree of leading depite all the loading techniques and component options available.


    That is interesting. For the gun/load combinations that seems to run forever without needing lead removal I assume there is initial leading and then the build up remains about constant? 

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