Matt Griffin

Semiautos are all about panic while shooting, trying to chase the bouncing sight faster and faster. Revolvers are about being in a panic between the shooting, then calming down long enough to MAKE DAMN SURE YOU DON'T MISS and then panicking again. TomAYto, ToMAHto, but variety is nice.

Why do you all keep leaving out those of us with 7 shot I am making my way back to revolver as soon as I can having shot with and competed with (although not real well) since 1980 when I started PPC. I have very bad hands (both were operated on in November) and will shoot minor PF as long as I can shoot. With the help of PMD on this forum and a local friend, I have a 686 plus or minus . One gun, 2 cylinders both moon clipped. If I can shoot the 7 round cylinder in this sport and the others for now, great. I have been searching for an 8 shot for steel and to get back to ICORE and will end up ordering one from the factory no matter what is decided by USPSA. If the 8 shot is allowed even on a provisional basis, I will use it. If not, I will use the 686 with the six shot cylinder shooting minor. I hope to be ready for fall. Not to derail, but does that work with the same hand? Is it only the 8-shot guns that have different ratchet throws?

It would be nice to have a one gun and gear that would be able to be competitive and be able crossover in both arenas. I could and would be able to shoot the same revolver every weekend of the month weather that is ICORE or USPSA. I might be wrong but I believe ICORE has the largest number of revolver shooters and by making one of their more popular guns legal (also one that you can still purchase) it would give an instant boost to USPSA. So to answer the above question nothing. Many of us would like to shoot the same gun for both allowing for more trigger time. 625 is legal in ICORE limited and USPSA Revolver. The stages are even 6 shot friendly. I see just as many 6 shot moonclipped guns in limited ICORE as 627's at our local matches(only 2 last year). Usually even numbers of Classic and Limited shooters. Again FWIW, but I've yet to actually shoot an ICORE match with my 627s. I bought them for ICORE but the pain in the ass of getting them smithed, getting the SC brass, getting the hearthco moonclips, developing a load, getting a holster and finally a rig that can hold Hearthco moonclips (still don't have this!) have kept me from even trying 8 shots in ICORE. I just shoot my 625s with my USPSA major ammo. I also haven't lost a match or taken a standing reload yet, either.

I'll just reiterate: I perform very, very few standing reloads. The last Nationals was one of the worst matches I've seen for it, and I think there was a grand total of three for the entire match. I make longer, more difficult shots to make it all come out right in the end, but that's part of the game. If the division turns into shooting a classifier at each port and then doing a reload to the next port with plenty of time for everyone, then I'll probably move back to Limited for USPSA where there's some breakdown to be done. I enjoy the mental aspect of the game more than the shooting, to be honest. What I really don't get is this: Why are we having this discussion in USPSA when ICORE exists? Eight shots? Check. Minor only? Check. Speedloader division? Check. Big National match with great prizes? Check. Open Division for the bad eyesight crowd? Check. Regional matches with prizes and lots of competition? Check. Here's the big question: What is it that USPSA has that you want, that's different from ICORE?

He came in about 75%, as I recall.

For you, what about a simple 6-shot, minor-only, speedloader-only category with prizes?

This is awesome. Jerry the Merciless!! I guess I really didn't see him as evil, but I like the idea?? Oh wait, I get it now. That's supposed to be me, not Jerry! I'm the one with the hat, and I'm the one "vs. the fierce Mikulakk." For all your retro poster making fun, go here: http://thrilling-tales.webomator.com/derange-o-lab/pulp-o-mizer/pulp-o-mizer.html

Again, I may be atypical, but the reason I don't shoot PPC is because it's very hard to find a match, the NRA website is awful for finding a match, and the Bianchi Cup insists on taking up a week's worth of vacation days in order to shoot the match. Change two out of those three and I'll gladly shoot it. As for Jerry, he's fierce, not evil. Also he bit off my leg.

All I know is that I want this as my shirt:

I know one pretty decent revolver shooter who hung up his six shooter because of lack of recognition at larger matches. I sometimes wonder how guys like you and Cliff can stay motivated when you only have competition once or twice a year. Scrubs like me can stay motivated because there are a few who could win amongst ourselves on any given day. Mostly through booze and gambling. The shooting match is the low point of our Nationals experience. ;-)

Here's a question I've always wondered, and since we have a good representation of both revo and non-revo shooters I'll ask it: How big a barrier to entry is it knowing that you won't win a prize and you won't win overall, if Jerry is there? Do the low numbers make A-GM wins meaningless for shooters? My first two years with revo were built around "Maybe I could?" And my last three years have been "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can . . ." and I've never really noticed my actual finishes or wins or near wins or losses, I'm just Ahab sailing for my white whale.

Again, FWIW, I do enjoy the inherent difficulties of six shots, that's one of the main reasons I shoot a revolver. The other is so that I can try and beat Jerry Miculek, since I decided I couldn't beat Rob Leatham at the SS Nationals with a 1911, as they are much less lefty-friendly than a revolver. Both have since been beaten but I stay with the revolver because it suits my love of overly-complicated things. I realize that I am NOT the target audience if you want to try and capture "the typical shooter."

All I have to say is that I'd rather be shot at by a guy who is relying on his magazine rather than a guy who is relying on his ability. That, and I'd take a .357 last out of all common defense rounds, by which I mean it's the last one I want to be shot with.

Now see, I think you might have just jumped the shark, because you're arguing from pure personal preference. I'm enjoying the heck out of my 686 practice but that's probably due to the new factor. Scientifically, what are the SSR vs. ESR numbers in IDPA? That should give us an idea of interest in a proportional sense.

Hey gang: Anything to know on a 686 that would be different than a 625? I need to tune up some .38s and was wondering.

As a -2, it's probably not a case of tight chambers. I'd lean towards bulged brass. Do what BlueOval said, drop in raw rounds and see if they bottom out. If I don't feel a "thunk!" when I drop in a clip, I check the brass, change the clip, etc. I want to feel them slam into place with no resistance.

Well, it can't hurt to repeat it! :-) I'd gladly turn over the Match prize for Top Overall Revolver (when there is one) to the top Speedloader guy. I reckon before my arm problems I was spending North of $6,000 or $8,000 each year to travel to matches, practice, buy guns, etc. Of the matches that even had a prize table (few) maybe half of them had a gun as a prize for Revolver, so obviously we're not in this for the money.

. . . but then again. Looking at it another way, in the context of the day, it's a terrible idea. You'll bring in some ICORE diehards, sure, but you're locking out anyone who doesn't already have a 627, and Smith will be years before they stop stamping out M&Ps to meet demand. It's a heck of thing to try and increase participation when the one and only competitive gun is going to run you $1,000. Why not do like ICORE and just recognize a speedloader award at matches, and force it to be minor-6? If there's an argument for 8-shot guns then there is 10x the argument for speedloader .38s. You can go to J&G and buy them by the basket for $300 each, and you bring in Ruger, Taurus, Chiappa, Colt, every other wheelgun maker in the world.

Glad to have Matt in this. I would be doing the twice through thing here if we weren't having 70-90 shooters showing up for our matches. I just don't wanna be there that long, I'm old after all! Just for interest sake, I have considered shooting 6 minor, but have found out I can't count to 6 reliably. I just shoot the 8 at ICORE and Tuesday Night Steel and the 6 at IPSC. Only thing I disagree with you on here is thinking there is more than one competitive gun in USPSA revolver division. we have a couple shooting 6 minor, but I do not think you can be truly, not just theoretically competitive with it. BTW, I can easily design a match that would be USPSA legal and we would not choose 8 minor over 6 major. Thanks for joining in. I value your opinion as one of the super 17! Ah, but you forget the 610 Mr. Leatham! As well as moonclipped .38s, one of which damn near beat me at the World Shoot in 2011. Certainly moonclipped guns are the only game in town, but with 8-shots being allowed it goes down from 3 calibers to a single caliber and model, the 627. Honestly I'm starting to come around, at the very least it would be an interesting shakeup to the sport. I would miss the craziness of stage breakdowns when limited to six shots, but the new blood would be worth it, and they still have to navigate the reload and the trigger.

Happy birthday Sam!

I stand by my oft-repeated contention that moving from a division where only three or four guns are possibly competitive to a division where only a single gun is competitive is a negative, and that the addition of two more rounds fundamentally changes the revolver game when shooting USPSA stages. I invite anyone in my area that wants to shoot minor 8-shot to come to the Silver Creek match and shoot with me in revolver division. We can start generating data right then and there, and I'll talk Lee or Dave into tabulating the scores as Revolver and not Production. Our matches are usually 32-round burners, so it should be weighted as heavily towards the 8-shots as possible. For that matter, I wonder if they would let me shoot through twice, once with a 625 and once with a 627. In the name of science, of course.

Where are you seeing it on sale?

Roll a piece of sandpaper into a cone, instant chamfer tool.

Let me be the dissenting opinion: It's the recoil not operating the bolt strongly enough. There's a bug in the 930 that if you drop the bolt with the bolt release but only do it lightly, the lifter jams on one side in the position you show. Hit the release hard and it will drop properly. Empty the gun and try it, just tap the release hard enough to let the bolt go and see if you can't duplicate the error. I don't have a fix for it yet but from looking at it I think there's an area on the lifter that could be relieved. I've mostly just trained myself out of it but I've been using full power ammo. If it were to start doing it on recoil rather than manual operation then it must be fixed, now.

The 2014 Mazda6 is coming with a low compression diesel that doesn't need urea to be 50-state compliant, plus it looks great. It's my next car unless that Cherokee is even better than the listed 30mpg.